Animals on psychedelic drugs?

[phantomcosmonaut]

What would it be like for them? Do animals always get a similar "high" from drugs just like humans do or can it be different for them? I know that an animal like a cat or small dog can't handle too much marijuana (for some reason, I think it may be problems with their respiratory system). So how would, let's says a dog, react in general to a psychedelic drug like LSD or Shrooms? Would it feel natural to them, or would they become paranoid due to the unexplained change in reality? Would they become aggressive, or maybe very dazed? Any information is fine I am just wondering about this.

 

[delta_9]

If you're asking if other mammals such as dogs/cats/etc have the same receptors that humans do, then yes.

 

[OrneTTe]

Apparently they don't handle it too well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJEw3A_QO9o


Edit: FWIW I knew I guy that gave a hit of LSD to his cat and he ate three and he claims they just both chilled together and tripped. I have no reason not to believe this person but find it terribly irresponsible to give mind altering substances to animals besides maybe just a little beer for a dog. They just love it.

 

[BruceLeeSwag]

i always wanted to buy animals from pet store and give them drugs and see how they reacted, but thats illegal.

 

[Bkhaze]

I always wanted to nail people like BruceLeeSwag to a cross and then set it on fire to see how they react, but that's illegal.

 

[TheProdigalSon]

i always wanted to buy animals from pet store and give them drugs and see how they reacted, but thats illegal.

Taking psychedelics willingly and know the possible ramifications of your actions is one thing. Forcing them onto an animal is another matter completely, its cruel.

You really do sicken me just for making a post like that, kidding or not.

 

[phantomcosmonaut]

I don't see why it's wrong and irresponsible to give an animal a drug, unless you know or think it may harm them. Obviously some weed won't be a big deal, and I doubt any drug in a small amount is a problem at all. It isn't wrong, we do it to ourselves, sometimes we may harm ourselves, but unless it's your intention to harm the animal, it really isn't bad. And it isn't forced upon them, it's the same as an animal finding magic mushrooms in the wild and eating them, theres nothing about the drug that causes them to suffer, and they may even like it.

 

[delta_9]

I don't see why it's wrong and irresponsible to give an animal a drug

You don't have to. And I'm not interested in debating it with you. However, be aware that Bluelight has a strict policy against threads that suggest or encourage someone to do so.

If you're interested - The official 'pets and drugs' thread.

 

[Solipsis]

The TS is just wondering about this, there are some things that can be said about the difference between animals and humans and the rationality and actual self-awareness and -reflection only present in humans. Because animals don't have this they have no choice but to follow their instict and feeling. If they cannot trust their senses they will panic and there is no settling this by putting it into perspective rationally.
This is all theory without ever having drugged any pet. I have only offered my cat some catnip but he was not a taker... apparently about 1/4 of cats don't like it and 1/2 like it and the other 1/4 reaaallly like it - not sure if IIRC but that sounds like simple dominant and recessive genetic alleles.

Discussion is probably brief on this because nobody can describe what it is like for them, only speculate what it must be like for them based on some knowledge.... more or less.

I'm eager to close this though - if the purpose is fulfilled.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I don't see why it's wrong and irresponsible to give an animal a drug, unless you know or think it may harm them. Obviously some weed won't be a big deal, and I doubt any drug in a small amount is a problem at all. It isn't wrong, we do it to ourselves, sometimes we may harm ourselves, but unless it's your intention to harm the animal, it really isn't bad. And it isn't forced upon them, it's the same as an animal finding magic mushrooms in the wild and eating them, theres nothing about the drug that causes them to suffer, and they may even like it.

There is so much wrong with this post..

Obviously some weed won't be a big deal

Consuming a rather small amount of weed can be dangerous and potentially even lethal to certain animals - there have been many cases where dogs have ate their owners weed and had to be rushed to the vets immediately.

It isn't wrong, we do it to ourselves, sometimes we may harm ourselves, but unless it's your intention to harm the animal, it really isn't bad

By this logic it is also perfectly okay to dose anyone you please any time you like as long as your intentions are good. Of course that's not okay, no-one should ever have a drug forced upon them.

And it isn't forced upon them, it's the same as an animal finding magic mushrooms in the wild and eating them

That's like saying drugging someone at a bar is the same as someone knowingly going out, purchasing and consuming a drug. No, it isn't.

A lot of people forget that animals react very differently to substances we can consume with no problem - chocolate is a great example, to us it's perfectly harmless unless you count calories and sugar, but to a dog it can be lethal. With alcohol this is even more pronounced, and dogs have died from tiny amounts of alcohol that their owners gave them for "fun" or "to share".

Furthermore, you have to remember that an animal looking at a powder, plant, sheet of paper etc isn't going to expect it to have any psychoactive effect when consumed, and so even if they experience rather normal psychedelic effects it will scare the living daylights out of them and has the potential to scar them for life - particularly since even the smallest doses you could give them would affect them much more than they'd affect a human.

We can't tell you what an animal will feel when drugged because we simply don't know that, all we can say is that it's almost always unsafe to dose an animal even with a minute dose of a drug.

 

[!!4iV4HF9R34g]

Disclaimer: I neither encourage not endorse the administration of any compound to an animal.

That being said, it's amazing to me how viciously animals are defended these days. I mean honestly, humanity is natural, too. Why does everyone act like we aren't? In our domination of the landscape, yeah, some species may be lost. But how is that different from how the Earth has been doing it forever?? I just don't understand all the hullabaloo over animal activism and the impact humanity has.
And the internet folk, oh my god, you're more up in arms over an experiment than freaking rape and murder. What the hell is wrong with that??
Frankly I think it would be interesting information to have concrete data about, and I really doubt many, if any, animals would come to harm. Besides, if it did turn out that, say, cats were deathly allergic to LSD, that would be something useful to know. Maybe that information would save a bunch of cats! And what about all the theories centering around how entheogens may have given rise to sentience and higher cognitive functioning? These ideas could be tested in animal studies.. Wouldn't that be something, giving DMT to your Golden Retriever and watching her learn a complex task easily, something crazy? Lol. Just saying..

A bit tangential, but nonetheless.

 

[Psychonautical]

I could understand like. Doing Ketamine with your Cat.
or like PCP with your Horse...

But not DMT with Dog... Or like...

Meth with a Monkey lol.

 

[Help?!?!]

Disclaimer: I neither encourage not endorse the administration of any compound to an animal.

That being said, it's amazing to me how viciously animals are defended these days. I mean honestly, humanity is natural, too. Why does everyone act like we aren't? In our domination of the landscape, yeah, some species may be lost. But how is that different from how the Earth has been doing it forever?? I just don't understand all the hullabaloo over animal activism and the impact humanity has.

Probably because the Earth as we know it is not a conscious being that has emotions or guilt or anything humanity like about it(it makes me laugh though how some humans will tolerate their own acts of cruelty "Yos dat guy did it once...!" so what, if the Earth was a weird child rapist would you defend its action against anything then?, like overtime instead of raping species the Earth raped our children's lives instead? The reason animals need to be defended is they are not strong mentally like we are, physically they can make us looks like rag dolls but mentally we make them look like nothing....). To me the people that entertain the idea of giving chemicals to animals, especially anything more than maybe catnip(the only reason I really let this is because cats have been having nip orgies for long periods of time integrating into their genetic coding, things like this make me think of the monkeys on the one island where they learned they could drink fruity cocktails and get fucked up all thanks to the tourists leaving eth laced drinks everywhere but obviously this came about because of humans and not naturally)is only because they can't understand at a certain level how this is different than humans. Makes sense, humans want to give human traits or believe that things would react just like humans would(to me this is a redundance of unintelligence that just has yet to truly be wiped from our brains, like say if dogs were the dominant species they would attribute dog like qualities to things unless they evolved past this ignorance). Its just once you've thought of things on certain levels you understand animals simply could not react the same way as humans and the most important thing to me is the lack of sense of self like we know it. Without that, chemicals probably just wouldn't be the same amongst other things. I don't want to insult anyone, its simply all in your thought, like "Yos lets give deemsters to muh dog and watch it connect with facking elves!" is just illogical. What if something like psychedelics only interacted with our brain in a positive way, like say opioids made dogs have spiritual thoughts(how could something even fathom the universe though when it cannot even fathom itself though?...would be my question!)or something, but wait an unintelligent human being probably wouldn't even get that far in thought because all they can do is attribute human traits to the inhuman. I mean to me, its even illogical to know whether cats are allergic to LSD... It doesn't occur in nature and no logical person would ever leave any quantity of pure LSD or even blotter(how the fuck would the dog consume this? I guess it could randomly lick the blotter and get it stuck on the tongue but this should only happen if the tabs are on the floor or somewhere within reach which should only ever happen on accident really and considering we don't hear about dogs dying from accidental LSD ingestion often I assume its not something that happens much, also did you notice I used dog here as well just because in my mind not possible for a cat to ingest blots, unless you make it smell like fish...but either way though someone whos attempted to medicate their animal via pills know that dogs/cats usually just try to spit them out which I imagine an animal would do with a blotter, its not like you would fucking lick a piece of paper, get it stuck to your tongue then just swallow it, but who knows...we are humans and not animals after all). Just sayin' if were all responsible we shouldn't have to torture a cat with LSD even if it doesn't die(for reference this is a supposed gov video of a cat on LSD, which IMO it looks clear that it is enjoying....., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z47iJsSiOIc). Oh and finally, so what if psychedelics were the rise of our egos? Ever seen Planet of the Apes? Its probably not gonna work out like your thinking besides the fact the experiment would need to take place over possibly millions of years, evolution to consciousness ain't happenin' over night broseph IMO. So all in all, to me its simple ignorance that brings man to want to drug animals for any other reason than them needing it. I don't know, to me its so clear and easy but I guess not so much to others.

 

[c0nzor]

Animals seek to alter their own states of mind in my opinion... Maybe not all but some I do believe will seek out some plants or prey over others for the effect it feels upon ingesting whatever it may be. As for LSD that is man made which can only spell danger in my eyes as we are human and have a unique consciousness and set of coping tools for life, death and everything in between.

We are on the same wavelength at some stage of being but using man made chemicals to try and connect or simply distrupt an animal seems kinda sick... I usually hate little sayings but the road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions.

 

[!!4iV4HF9R34g]

Okay, honestly, how does anthromorphism have anything to do with the debate over animal testing?
Actually! Your argument is fallacious and contradictory with your proposed morality. The only reason most people are fussing in the first place is because they've assigned human traits to animals, making pets out of creatures.
Help?!?!, sorry, I just don't see it. Lol, it's like you said, ”to me its so clear and easy but I guess not so much to others.” Haha haha.

Also, nobody even mentioned the Gaia hypothesis.. How are you even reading that?
All I meant was that the natural order has not been upset if we consider human civilization as the current pinnacle of the ecosystem.
What makes humanity unnatural? If it's intelligence, I'd argue for forms of panexperientialism. I'd also wonder then why we would seek out this ”abomination of nature” in other parts of space.

Finally, none of that really addresses what I think is the most valid point (considering the opinion status of the others), which is that the psychedelic process ought to be empirically studied in a wide array of subjects, manners, and forms. Personally, I think it's the most powerful cognitive skill and function available to us as a species. And not just the drug action, I mean the process of thought generation and making that thought real.


Lol, haha haha, psychonautical, wut?? Special K with a cat and PCP with a horse, how do you validate those specifically? Lolol.


And yeah, I've seen animals who literally can't wait for their owners to blow the smoke at them, and I've also seen animals who ran away from the circle. Obviously each is individual. But I was really thinking more along the lines of controlled studies with research animals, not pets. My examples were only illustrations.

 

[mecaib]

I've got a story, probably told it here before, but oh well.

A long time ago, an old friend of mine had a bunch of dry Alphabets Soup noodles laced with LSD. Having been a long time between trips, and feeling the need to embark on another, she went to her stash only to find most of it gone! Figuring it was either a case of simple theft or possible misplacement, she went ahead and took her dose. It was a moderately strong trip, and things were moving right along when a small mouse came up to her right at the peak. She assumed that it--uncharacteristic as it might be--must be a hallucination. It sat there on its hind legs, just staring at her and swaying back and forth. After a time it keeled over, never to rise again. Needless to say, this put a negative spin on her trip. After the effects of the acid subsided and the mouse remained, she knew beyond any doubt what had happened: the poor thing had eaten countless micrograms of LSD, tripped hardcore, eventually dying of a heart attack.

This suggests two things. First, a tripping animal, not knowing what the hell is going on, is likely to engage in dangerous behavior such as a wild mouse approaching a human. Second, animals can have bad trips... bad enough to result in cardiac arrest.

So I would in no way dose an animal. It's inhumane, and besides, it's pointless since animals are very susceptible to gaining contact highs from trippers. Our cat always trips when we do, and he doesn't need to be dosed.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Dogs lose their shit when you pretend to throw a ball and hide it behind your back. If all they were expected to do is lay on the grass and watch the cloud dogs chasing the cloud cats across the sky all would be dandy but unfortunately when the shadow creatures start jumping out of the grass I'd expect them not to take too kindly to any experiment . I'm sure they would be just happy to go for a super long walk in the forest with their tripping owner and sit around a campfire.

 

[phantomcosmonaut]

The TS is just wondering about this, there are some things that can be said about the difference between animals and humans and the rationality and actual self-awareness and -reflection only present in humans. Because animals don't have this they have no choice but to follow their instict and feeling. If they cannot trust their senses they will panic and there is no settling this by putting it into perspective rationally.
This is all theory without ever having drugged any pet. I have only offered my cat some catnip but he was not a taker... apparently about 1/4 of cats don't like it and 1/2 like it and the other 1/4 reaaallly like it - not sure if IIRC but that sounds like simple dominant and recessive genetic alleles.

Discussion is probably brief on this because nobody can describe what it is like for them, only speculate what it must be like for them based on some knowledge.... more or less.

I'm eager to close this though - if the purpose is fulfilled.

Alright... Go ahead, I have what I was looking for. I'm not sure if I have the ability to close my own thread though, sooooo yeah.

 

[silentcowboy]

I think its kind of evil what they did to that cat... i mean have you ever seen someone so high on lsd their flopping and convulsing like that? Even when on big doses its sometimes uncomfortable to be really high, and i was able to act somewhat un-intoxicated.

 

[Foreigner]

I'm against giving psychedelics to animals. They are innocent and have no way to prepare for how fucked up they are about to become, unlike humans.