• DPMC Moderators: thegreenhand | tryptakid
  • Drug Policy & Media Coverage Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Drug Busts Megathread Video Megathread

Anger at move to stop drug users having children

I just wish that the drug community could "get over" how much prohibition bothers them and stop reacting so emotionially towards an issue that warrants logic and control.

This site is not only frequented by drug users. Immature responses to serious issues just make us look bad and it embarasses me to read some of them.

See this is what I take issue with, you I presume aren't a heroin addict, neveer have been and I bet you aren't a dad either ??
See I am all of those and so was my wife till she got clean (except a dad of course:D ).
Our kids are grade a kids at school and happy and contented, they have manners and lead fulfilling lives, the older ones are at University and working respectively.
our family is a good one far better than many many others I see, our kids aren't left wandering the streets or hiding in fear in their rooms while the parents knock seven bells out of each other.
We love all our kids and they love us, you (who know sweet fuck all ) would deny us that on the back of a bit of sensationalism.






zophen
 
^ The point wasa though I am still addicted to opiates and until recently so was the wife!









zophen
 
^ Of course I am I would have been directly affected by the system you would have voted to bring in ??
Just the point *some people* and what about alcohol , cocaine and mental illness?



I don't hold nothing personal against you just your blinkered sensationalist views.





zophen
 
If you're open to suggestions, that means you're open to this idea being suggested, which means you are also open to the idea of it being considered. Since that law would affect zophen, and you are even open to considering it, I think that's what zophen is taking offence to.

Don't take this as an attack as i'm just trying to see if I understand this correctly!
 
I
just wish that the drug community could "get over" how much prohibition bothers them and stop reacting so emotionially towards an issue that warrants logic and control.

Warrants logic and control , well explain how that doesn't mean that you support it ?










zophen
 
Best post in this thread.

James. said:
This case has nothing to do with "who can and can not breed". It has to do with adding contractual repercussion to those irresponsible/dire enough to have children while addicted to OPIATES.

Has anyone against this proposal stopped to think of the absolute shit one is setting a child up for in dependently using this class of drug during term of pregnancy? The "who is and who isn't fit to raise the child after birth" question that keeps popping up here is only half the issue of this particular policy. What we've failed to address here is the reality of a Mother bringing a child into the world to face his/her first week of life in severe opiate withdrawal. Beyond that - She brings into the world a child whos term in the womb was (often[OR]always) defined by heroin like intoxication. A child who is exponentially prone to lifelong addiction, should they eventually delve into experimentation with opiates themselves.

Let alone upbringing and term of pregnancy; during pre-conception - It's the shared responsibility of both potential parents to prevent this kind of tragedy from unfolding. Yet a lack of strength and responsibility in either half of the parental unit during this time can cause the whole to fail. And after those genuine, heartbreaking stories of why it failed - the best option for the welfare of the child, (unless the Mother can then quickly and safely kick methadone treatment), is clear.

It then becomes nothing but the unfortunate duty of the state to provide the best chance that this new and absolutely innocent child can get in his/her earliest and most important developmental stages. After, of course - nursing the newlyborn through a week of torment that so many chosen, adult addicts can't even handle. I also strongly believe that this should be the case for children born with pronounced and detectable Fetal alcohol syndrome, perhaps even more so.

"Welcome to the World, my precious baby. Sorry I didn't have it in me to spare you of this, but you're still MY child; and no one can take you away from me"

"I'm sorry I couldn't support your Mother and make the right decisions during her treatment... but it happened, and you're my child; and even if I can't make the right decisions from here on in - no one can take you away from us"

WHY should scenarios like this ever be considered acceptable?

[...]

We should love to hear the against all odds stories of the single Mother to be who sacrificed methadone treatment early in her term; (though questions regarding the increased chance of miscarriage and sustained exposure of the fetus to opiates resonate)

At the same time, we should love to hear the socially redeeming stories of parent(s) who allowed the initial tragedy to take place; yet who eventually reformed themselves in love & diligence to eventually re-claim their child.

And these stories are possible, and do happen. So support the stories that work, rather than the grim opposites that so often dot both our most hyper-liberal and most uncaring-conservative societies. An inbetween solution is desperately needed to strike balance and promote the former - and this proposal is imaginative enough to possibly strike such a form.

Dave Soviet and Raybeez have brought up excellent issues that need further exploration.. and I wish I had the time to do so tonight. Darthmom, your posts are outright wonderful. Yet in between these few contributions, we've the usual and unimaginative one-liners:

-Fearmongering of the slippery slope.
-The Godwin Strawmen.
-The simplistically abstract and the blindfolded constitutionalism; all unwilling for an extended and individual examination of why these quick-parrotings may or may not be appropriate for this particular, real life issue.

...And all in all, so much talk about "compassion". How about compassion for the child, before the addict.

Anger at the move to stop drug users from reproducing during addiction treatment? How about "anger at the unmoving defense for scales of irresponsibility". C'mon guys. This stops being an issue of individual rights for the parent once they can't even uphold the well-being of a completely dependent CHILD.
 
adding contractual repercussion to those irresponsible/dire enough to have children while addicted to OPIATES

Not the way I read it it isn't, the way I read it is that it if you already have children you are as likely to be have them used against you in an attempt to coerce you into the states way of thinking.
No one is saying that drug addiction is a good thing, what is being said is that drug addicts should(and currently are) be treated the same as an alcoholic or someone with a tendency to violence or Mary bloody Poppins EQUALLY that's all the same standard to judge the same issue.














zophen
 
That's a thought, why isn't this law even being considered for alcoholics aswell?
 
>"The proposals, drawn up by Labour MSP Duncan McNeil, would require addicts to sign a "social contract", under which they would only get benefits and methadone if they agreed not to have children while addicted to drugs.

>"If addicts agree, but then breach the contract, they face having their children taken into care, as well as the withdrawal of treatment and benefits."<

*IF THEY AGREE*, they can sign up and *VOLUNTEER*--or not, and buy their own Methadone, and crap out as many un-lucky kids as they bloody well please...

Seems reasonable: agree and get freebies, or don't agree and pay their own way. If they can have kids, then they should have a solid job with plenty of money to pay for them--and to pay for their own Treatment...

Someone who wants to have kids shouldn't need free "benefits and methadone"...
 
The decision to remove children from parents should be based upon the the risk to the child, nothing else.
It's just a heap of public relations bullshit.
What about removing children from the homeas of religious fundamentalists that preach hatred and intolerance?










zophen
 
zophen said:
What about removing children from the homeas of religious fundamentalists that preach hatred and intolerance

Now thats one law that i might support. We need alot less of those retards around.

I think a parent should have their children taken away from them if they are a unfit parent. I dont think it should matter why they are an unfit parent. A alcoholic or a gambling addict is just as bad or worse then a heroin or methadone addict.

Ive seen kids who have gone hungry because daddy decided to put all his check into the video lottery terminal instead of buying food. Or because they decided that whiskey and crack was their main priorities.

In alot of cases unfit parents are just unfit because they are shitty goddamn parents. There doesn't need to be any vices involved at all. Ive seen lots of unfit parents that dont do any of that shit.

I dont think they should single out drug users. They should just base your ability to be a parent on how good you look after your kid. It's really that simple.
 
You guys don't seem to acknowledge the difference between alcohol and heroin. Realistically the latter is going to be treated differently due to it's illicit nature. You can't expect alcoholics to be treated like heroin addicts. There is not going to be equal rights for the two, because one of them is a criminal as well as an addict.

So what just because it is illegal doesn't make any difference the only priority should be the welfare of the kids. Your attitude is one of the person who has no real personal experience with kids, please correct me If I am wrong.
I've had similar disagreements with people before, never ever are they parents themselves (at least not practicing parents)) so what about people who are on scripts then ??





zophen
 
Yes you do an opinion that is based upon a fairly fragile grasp of the realities of the situation, I cannot understand why you feel that singling out a group of users of a specific drug should be targetted and then with no thought as to how capable they are penalised for liking to take opiates.
If the issue really is child protection then get on with protecting all children from real danger (not perceived danger).





zophen
 
You're starting to change the context from removing children from addicted parents (only heroin mind forget crack, amphets alcohol and all the rest) to one of *dealing with the heroin problem*.
Now I could happily talk about the reasons why heroin is a problem (its illegal status being the main one) but we're talking about some numbskulls idea to persecute a group of people for no reason other than they feel that it will be better for society, when patently it will not.
what will be gained by taking happy children from loving caring parents ??
Because if the system works properly then all the bad parents will have had their unhappy children seized by the local authority (quite rightly as well) so that just leaves the happy kids whose parents happen to be junkies.
People often assume that drug addicts steal and claim benefits, well sure some do others don't, some work and pay taxes (like me) but I'd be dragged into this charming little scheme anyway because I am a registered addict.
Now then most chaotic (and therefore most likely to present real risk to children) drug users aren;t registered so how you gonna deal with them ??
It is badly thought through, it won't work, it will penalise the wrong people and in the end cause more misery and distress than happiness it could ever bring.





zophen
 
NMo *the heroin problem* is a generic term often used for describimg all problems caused by heroin, you choosing not to specify caused the misinterpretation, glad your done with the conversation as you haven't yet made any point which realistic as far as I could see.








zophen
 
^ You strange person, I've no doubt that I've misinterpreted things you've written as I've no doubt you also have about stuff I've written , but I'm looking from an overall perspective to be able to say that , what about you ?
I don't think for my part it is personal, I just think that you'te wrong, doesn 't mean I hate you or anything dramatic like that.
However it seems to be an impasse so I'm happy to leave it at that, you know my position on the matter anyway.
Love & light





zophen
 
Top