Androgen:Estrogen ratio

[Genetic Freak]

What do we know about A:E ratio when increasing androgens via exogenous testosterone, I appreciate estrogen should rise in line with elevated testosterone but do we have a healthy % range to work from..
Most popular boards suggest anywhere from 30:1 - 50:1, but I've been looking at what research there is and I can't seem to find a definitive answer..

Anyone..

 

[CFC]

There's no research on any theory about a ratio of T:E at supraphysiological doses of AAS as far as I'm aware GF. It's not really something that's likely to get studied any time soon.

I know people have extrapolated what they've decided to call a healthy ratio on the basis of observation of normal male levels. But I don't necessarily think that translates in any meaningful way as soon as we go outside physiological norms.

 

[Genetic Freak]

There's no research on any theory about a ratio of T:E at supraphysiological doses of AAS as far as I'm aware GF. It's not really something that's likely to get studied any time soon.

I know people have extrapolated what they've decided to call a healthy ratio on the basis of observation of normal male levels. But I don't necessarily think that translates in any meaningful way as soon as we go outside physiological norms.

I've been perusing papers on mechanisms of gyno, and local estrogen biosynthesis.. The correct androgen estrogen ratio is considered paramount in mitigating or negating presentation of gynecomastia..
Maybe that is where confusion could have arisen, typical of the internet..

I suppose working upon pharmacokinetic principles regarding volume of distribution to cellular tissue, supraphysiological levels of estrogen should obviously result is increased receptor binding to ER throughout the body, not such a good thing in most cases..

 

[CFC]

I think you're right, that's probably where the idea stems from. I'm a bit critical of the idea even for just gyno for AAS-using bodybuilders since as soon as we push into supraphysiological doses, we're messing up the overall hormonal system too much (eg GH, IGF-1, prolactin) for a T:E ratio to be strictly relevant.

I suppose working upon pharmacokinetic principles regarding volume of distribution to cellular tissue, supraphysiological levels of estrogen should obviously result is increased receptor binding to ER throughout the body, not such a good thing in most cases

Yeah this is a complex one. While using AAS, increased ER binding and activation appear directly beneficial or protective in certain tissues (eg brain, blood vessels, skeletal muscle) and worse in others (esp testes, prostate). Of course then there's secondary issues (water retention, BP elevation etc) which make ER binding less desirable. Quite a mess.

 

[Intense]

If I start getting to anal about this my head starts hurting.. So many factors SHBG, e2, total/free test. I for the most part just try and remain in range with the exception of testosterone, which I like to be in the high range. I feel best when my e2 is slightly elevated but not crazy high.



Edit: I just contributed 0 to this discussion..

 

[CFC]

Actually you make a good point mate, which is that since we're stumbling blind with AAS use, keeping most things "not crazy high" would seem prudent until we know better.

 

[Intense]

Actually you make a good point mate, which is that since we're stumbling blind with AAS use, keeping most things "not crazy high" would seem prudent until we know better.

Right. It will be nice to see more studies done in this area as time goes on. It blows my mind how limited many doctors/physicians knowledge is on AAS.


This generation is a google generation, which is a good and bad thing, but good ultimately I believe.