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Stimulants Amphetamine - The Drug You Learn to Hate

16-32 mg/kg seems to be a quite high dose. That would translate to a 992 - 1984 mg for the average adult.

Does not appear to be relevant for therapeutic doses.
Yeah that's the problem with a lot of those studies about neurotoxicity...
For example, many of the claims about meth causing significant neurotoxicity in humans are actually based on studies where they took non-tolerant lab rats and injected them with huge doses. What's interesting is that tolerance appeared to be neuroprotective, rats that upped their dose gradually were fine IIRC.
 
Thank you so much for your post you have perfectly describe my experience with Adderall so far as I'm at Stage 5 now. I've been wondering why I hate taking the crap but still wake up every day and do. My current situation which you've written about perfectly reminds me of a book called The Master and his emissary I'm not smart enough to read the book myself but I've heard intelligent people make remarks about it.
The book is about how is humans have a divided brain and could have two different personalities struggling against one another. Maybe that's why I hate taking it but for some reason still do.
 
Couple years ago I´v read this post and found myself Phase-4. "Oh got I can never get to Phase-7.. I use scale and all kind of harm reduction, I have strickt rules to when to amphetamine (3 days breaks minimun)"
... Eh and now, about 5 years since read this post, Iam about last stage. How could that happened? (well... every of us know :D ).

But probrably I found it.
There is a way out of this shit. If found an possible scenario (tested on myself and it worked.. for now) :


- In first phase you really want to go back to normal. Firstly stop abusing amphetamine.
- But well you can not.. you need it for everyday activities! You have job, you have tasks, and you cannot acoomplish them without almost slingle line of amphetamine ( couple of them, in fact)
- So you have to quit amphetamine, but if you do it, it would ruin your life (whats remainded).
Solution which I hope works:
- Use aphetamines as you did, but in lower doses and also use another substances, which potentiates primary used AMP, or substitute part of its effect. (You have to do a lot of research to find adequate substances, which will not interfere with AMP in bad way)
- That will make you less carving for amphetamine amphetamine itself and instead redose with additional, less harmful substance ( "oh well.. today iam in stresfull situation, i have to write eassy and it is 22:00 already... I have to take amphetamine to do it .... or for this kind of task, i would try just 3-FPM, or maybe even Modafinil will be enought. )

In this way you can go like this:
--> Extreme AMP Dosages
--> HUGE AMP Dosage + medium potentioator (for example phenylpiracetam/paracetam or coluracetam )
--> Large AMP Dosage + weak potentioator/enchancer of overall effect (For example 3-FEA combinded with 3-FPM. Use high dose, but not too MUCH. WHen you do too much, it will returns you stage back)
Now a dificult step --> Medium AMP Dosage + weak potentiator in large dosages - Potentiator effect has to be more prominent than AMP (only in some ways.. every AMP/AMP substitute has it own unique headspace, so u can can see differ during trip)
--> Now you can try to swich to substitute (which cause damage in another regions tham AMP, so it can be fixed). Not permanentrly but only fo an "eaysier task".
---> now it goes all ower again, you are decreasing role of amphetamine. It can go to the point when only stims u take could be descriped like : statchs of supplements amino acids, convectional stimulants with no futher damage. Probably at this point you will be obsessed with neurochemistry and also nootropics ( probablynow you dont know what "PRL-8-53" is, but i guaeante you, that you will at this stage.

Note: Probably you will relaps multiple times ("scale brokem .. shit i have to eyeball my dosage , etc, etc"), but there is a chance to reverse most of brain and personality changes over time. And you know ... everybody relapses.
 
I was left totally speechless after reading your post...I'm still stunned so I apologize for lack of support or discussion...but please know one thing, this post just put my entire life and what me, and s/o, have gone through and LIVED the past year. I am no longer under "amphetamine control's I like to call it, but now at the stage where reality kicked in and I'm living and dealing with all the reprocautions of our addiction. Which is where the real struggle hits due to feelings and realizations causing extreme shame and severe disappointment in my self. Point is, your post helped me put SOOO much into perspective, and I now understand and have answers for so many unanswered questions I've been left with...literally replaying things over and over in my head desperately seeking the meaning behind so much pain and confusion our amphetamine abuse caused. Unfortunately my s/o reached the last stage you mentioned, me not so close but I was easily on my way. I pray for him every day that he recovers that he will someday be back to the person he once was...but so unbelievably afraid that permanent damage has been done to him...in every way possible. Thank you so much for sharing this with us, you literally have helped me in ways I cannot even describe. Just know, you helped change someone's outlook on their own experience and in ways changed my life, It is such a relief to know we were bot the only ones out there, your experience was our own almost word for word. Hank you again, I can breathe again...
 
I was left totally speechless after reading your post...I'm still stunned so I apologize for lack of support or discussion...but please know one thing, this post just put my entire life and what me, and s/o, have gone through and LIVED the past year. I am no longer under "amphetamine control's I like to call it, but now at the stage where reality kicked in and I'm living and dealing with all the reprocautions of our addiction. Which is where the real struggle hits due to feelings and realizations causing extreme shame and severe disappointment in my self. Point is, your post helped me put SOOO much into perspective, and I now understand and have answers for so many unanswered questions I've been left with...literally replaying things over and over in my head desperately seeking the meaning behind so much pain and confusion our amphetamine abuse caused. Unfortunately my s/o reached the last stage you mentioned, me not so close but I was easily on my way. I pray for him every day that he recovers that he will someday be back to the person he once was...but so unbelievably afraid that permanent damage has been done to him...in every way possible. Thank you so much for sharing this with us, you literally have helped me in ways I cannot even describe. Just know, you helped change someone's outlook on their own experience and in ways changed my life, It is such a relief to know we were bot the only ones out there, your experience was our own almost word for word. Hank you again, I can breathe again...
Hey man, you are going to win this fight (you have no other option). You will feel like a person again. Since I wrote this post I came throught this shit and was able to feel joy and energy again. I am dating, working. laughting. I am productive as ****, just because love my work. But when "stressor" came out (ive tried to graduate again) I started using AMPs again to be able to work+study+bussiness. I totaly forgot how misserable I was before, but as u replied to my post, I had to read my own post again and got it!
If I dont want to go into this hell cyrcle again, I have to take vaccation for few weeks from work and bussines (e-comerce) and focus just on my studies.. without amps. I have friend who is graduating also and he learned to force me into study, just be siting around any study by himself.
Well I still use some supplements, like tryptophan, omega, q10, phenylethilalanine (occasionalky), melatonin when cant sleep (thats happens to me after two glass of wine... weird, just like a little flashback to amp binge, but wery smooth).
Dont mind a lot about "permanent" brain damage you already have, because you fan smile, you can love. You will be just a bit slower, little bit more labile and maybe develop some type of mild psychosis (I starting to be paranoid when I got very very drunk, or seeing shadow peoples when tired.. but I started to be ok with them, unless they are looking straight to my eyes when I wake in middle of the night. THen i just throw pillow on him at it disapears).

There are also positives to survive AMP Cyrcle - on AMPS you have a lot of time to thing about things, and you discover a lot of "secrets" which you are normaly unable to see until your 60s. Lot of people I meet says that I am philosopher/genius/extremly intelectual, just because I am able to give sopishicated answer which I made during amphetamine binge.

Eric Idle - "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life"​

 
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I literally remember reading this years ago. I had to learn the hard way myself. Luckily I don’t have any brain damage, but the anxiety as well as dopamine in my brain is still not back to normal. I’m in search of ways of replenishing my dopamine levels back to normal using natural supplements. I’ve had relapses with Modafinil, and it just became a chore for me & the drug induced psychosis came and luckily went.
It’s crazy that I personally read this and I was not at stage 1, but I saw where I was headed. What you wrote is 100% on point it’s just sad how so many people learn the hard way. We can’t say we weren’t warned. I really wish if you had more time or felt like it would get this published or make it very accessible. I think if I read this at stage 1 I would have been able to see what was happening, but I was too far gone and I guess didn’t care. I’m so glad that is over with and my journey to better health and recovery is moving forward. It’s just crazy how I seen this years ago. Searched for it now and it’s still here. Anyone who sees this comment in any of the stages for what it’s worth the OP is talking about what is going to happen if you continue to abuse. ( to whomever this applies to ) spread the word.
 
What are the doses you guys are taking to have this type of effects?

I normally mix and drink about 30-40mg in the morning and 15-20mg in the afternoon on weekdays. How does that translate?
 
Hi, I will try to write something about my past-present life with the use/abuse of Amphetamines.

Firstly let's put I never tried any type of Amphetamines or other similar combos ppl here describe as daily medication. All sleep/pain, other harder psych pills for anxiety or some similar things ppl here wrote, honestly I have never put in my body. Especially big fucking NO-GO was even the thought take a pill to go to sleep.

Also about my normal lifestyle being a 100% non-smoker of any sort, even weed never tried smoking, only 2 times eat a chocolate-cake edible option, and drinking only social type when going out but that stopped in early 2010. Since I can remember I have always been an active sporty guy and that was part of me till the present day. Even in the past in the warmer part of the year my sports activities didn't suffer as even I used Amphetamines being awake, without any whatsoever health issues I had a thing of riding my MTB through my city just to wear myself out (1.2-hour ride), later sleeping as a baby.

Still, nowdays really I am not sure in which stage to put myself as a lot of symptoms

The year 2000 was when I first tried Amphetamine. I still remember the night vividly me on rave jumping all night long.
The next year I used it only once then later on it became more often, but only when raving with afterpartys. That lasted through and up to 2010 and alongside Amphetamine use, that period of my life MDMA-Ecstasy was as well weekend filled. Cocaine also crossed my lifetime but that
didn´t last long and regardless I was using it daily, every day I came to drink early morning coffee with a buddy of mine. Shortly after that last, as it was only for me free of charge, later on, it stopped easily as when you aren´t wealthy enough to finance that habit and you don't want start dealing any type of drugs you use oftentimes.

That spiked as more often usage of Amphetamines sometimes from 2010 to 2015, along with weekend fun, occasionally I used through weekdays. More often started to be because of me being bored between jobs, and at home in winter times + with every weekend being "the" party weekend (Friday-Monday happen quite often).

When finally in 2015 my luck turned around getting a good job abroad and continued building a career in a healthier environment than my home country, a beautiful but corrupt POS EU country. Then easily I stop using, without having cravings/crises find stuff and start using again.

Adjusting to a new life with steady work, sport, sleep and repeat was refreshing and fulfilling.

That lasted a year or so, slipping maybe once or twice when visiting friends in my hometown.
Then by a combination of circumstances, I found some good stuff so again I started using it, not daily but sporadically regardless it was stored nearby in the fridge. That changed end of 2016 a bit when I had some issues privately, which spiralled with daily use in smaller quantities, which lasted for 6 months or so.
Then again I changed my company, address in 2018 and I stopped using it. Not completely as it happened occasionally all up until Covid times.
So as my work was all around the EU at Covid times travelling by car, again I started using. The main reason I started again was I was fed up with all the things that were happening with COVID, and the hysteria around it.
So I started to use Amphetamines again and that somehow kept my sanity intact. As really I didn´t give a fuck what was happening around me if I could go work every day earning good money mainly in remote locations. Occasionally sleepless nights I admit having but eating and exercising were regularly done.
As Work Medical was performed each year+ with an Ergonometry test of my heart each year my results were in my age group better than expected, even though abusing Amphetamines a lot before.
On Christmas 2022 at home doing some furniture assembly, after one line snorted and did not have any positive feelings as I used to have in past so many times.
Then It just hit me thinking why do I need this shit, pissed I just decided that fuck that stuff from my fridge. So I took all the stash I had and just flushed everything down the toiled.
Never regretted that decision as the next whole year passed so well, with me being every day active, especially in my free time away from work. In the Alps hiking, mountain biking and snowboarding each day were dream days, especially as some darker times came in my life again.

Last 6 months again my butt-worm, has been a restless IDIOT as have been before. Dealing with some personal work-related problems that translated to my finances currently. Again every 3-4 days I went on 2-3 days of abuse, without sleep. Again my current abuse came mainly from being bored and trying to numb situations where I could go nuts because of my worry and anxiety will I have enough luck to
dig me out of this current shit I fall into or everything will go sideways, I try to cope with that and not give a fuck so much Amphetamine use is what it is.
Even so, I started abusing Amphetamines in December last year almost daily again, I also went Snowboarding almost every month between December and May in Austria, sleep and eating never were problems in my life in any way. So hopefully soon and for a longer period I will again stop with this shit.

So reading again this thread's first post, some ppl experience here and taking into consideration how I feel now mentally and, physically only 2 directly connected side effects of my amphetamine usage I could notice.
One would be my fucked short-term memory, all the time forgetting some stupid small things I need to do or take with me, nothing serious I notice my head or long-term memory loss, without having a headache of any kind.

Another downside noticed in recent years linked to my abuse, is after bingeing days, even afterwards having a long nice sleep, the following days will be extra sleepy. Even when I had a good full night's sleep the following days whenever I found myself in the same place sitting relaxed on the couch I fell asleep numerous times throughout the day instantly, and that lasted 3-4 days in a row. Not a big deal at home but when working I try to be in motion all day, as sitting in the office is shitty, constantly yawing, eyes shutting down.

So honestly I am not sure in which stage to put myself currently as some Characteristic Effects of stages aren´t corralled with things like my type, and length of Amphetamine usage. So if I look at how often using, and with connected days in a row I could put myself in Stage 4 but if look what are stage Characteristic Effects I easily can see myself in Stage 2 or 3.

Also numerous times even in recent months I didn't need to use it just as a tool to do some stuff privately or when working. Sometimes this is the case that I use it as a tool to do some tasks that I feel are a bit harder to do or more often when the task I don´t like whatsoever doing, I use it as motivation but not always.
Sometimes yes nervous or become hot-headed instantly when something isn't as I want planned to be. But I have been like that since I was a teen kid and it´s called being an idiotic big baby.

Lack of will: yes that occurred in the past but that seems like when being sometimes a lazy cunt, which easily can be broken just to kick myself in the arse and get moving. Inability to find the "right choice of words" Sometimes yes but mainly as English isn´t my native language, don´t see that as a big deal jet.

Painful body load (Muscle Pain, High Blood Pressure, Inadequate Circulation, Dehydration, Malnutrition, deterioration of the skin and other tissues, etc), Depression, Severe Anxiety, Psychosis, Inability to Sleep, and Severe Restlessness I never had in my life.

So past stage 3 seems I didn´t manage to achieve so far. No matter how long has passed since my first time. Hopefully, I will never put myself past that.
 
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