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Amphetamine Neurotoxicity and Tolerance Reduction/Prevention

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Throwing another IRL report out:

-recently upped dose from 20 to 30mg d-amphetamine a day, no other supplements aside from a multivitamin
-trialed with 750mg curcumin/day and 20-30mg/day for a week and a half
-No noticeable difference in tolerance after 3 days post trial

This guy hits the gym twice a week or so and is pretty healthy.
 
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I haven't posted on this topic for some time now, however I will say this: Anyone looking to find out information related to the use and "above high tolerance dosage" use of methamphetamine can look to me for information about the effects and affects of said substance. Please email me at [email protected], otherwise I will only be checking in on this site about once or twice a month, depending on what my usage is. This is not a life I would recommend anyone lead, but it is one I have found myself living. Religiously what is information/knowledge without sharing and/or using it? You can contact me personally, however expect at least a two to three week delay in response. Please read my previous responses to this thread and my blog.
 
EcHo EcHo said:
I haven't posted on this topic for some time now, however I will say this: Anyone looking to find out information related to the use and "above high tolerance dosage" use of methamphetamine can look to me for information about the effects and affects of said substance. Please email me at [email protected], otherwise I will only be checking in on this site about once or twice a month, depending on what my usage is. This is not a life I would recommend anyone lead, but it is one I have found myself living. Religiously what is information/knowledge without sharing and/or using it? You can contact me personally, however expect at least a two to three week delay in response. Please read my previous responses to this thread and my blog.
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You ok? I tried to PM you but your inbox is full.
 
So a update on the friend who has halved his concerta tolerance:

He's back up to around 90mg/day but notices significantly more energy on it than he had before, increased productivity for increased restlessness as he said. He swapped around some of his doses for IR though so I'm not sure how much of this we can attribute to the curcumin.
 
just wanted to let you know my trial with curcumin thus far. i've been on stim meds for adhd for 16 years. first adderall xr, switched to dexedrine about a year ago because of the crashes between doses 90mg 3x/day. other than the first 2 weeks, the effectiveness of the dexedrine is the same as it was pre-curcumin.

8.18.2011
7am 120 mg dexedrine er
2pm 120 mg dexedrine er

8.19.2011 - 8.31.11
6am 200 mg super bio curcumin
7am 090 mg dexedrine er
2pm 090 mg dexedrine er

9.1.11 - 9.7.11
6am 300 mg super bio curcumin
7am 075 mg dexedrine er
2pm 090 mg dexedrine er

9.8.11 - 9.14.11
6am 400 mg super bio curcumin
7am 075 mg dexedrine er
2pm 075 mg dexedrine er

9.15.11 - 9.30.11
6am 400 mg super bio curcumin
7am 075 mg dexedrine er
2pm 060 mg dexedrine er

10.1.11 - 10.14.11
7am 400 mg super bio curcumin
7am 075 mg dexedrine er
2pm 400 mg super bio curcumin
2pm 060 mg dexedrine er

10.15.11 - 10.30.11
7am 400 mg super bio curcumin
7am 060 mg dexedrine er
2pm 400 mg super bio curcumin
2pm 060 mg dexedrine er

10.31.11 - 11.05.11
7am 800 mg super bio curcumin
7am 060 mg dexedrine er
2pm 400 mg super bio curcumin
2pm 045 mg dexedrine er

11.06.11 - 12.6.11
7am 800 mg super bio curcumin
7am 060 mg dexedrine er
2pm 800 mg super bio curcumin
2pm 045 mg dexedrine er


other rxs: levothyroxine .175, bupropion xl 300

i also take 200 mg coq10, 20 mg bio-pqq*, b12, b complex, multi-vitamin, coromega, & selenium
*i've just switched from the pqq to Life Extension Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with BioPQQ

thanks!
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This report makes it 9 responders out of 21 total submissions. If I get some free time over the holiday break I'll look more into ways to help reduce tolerance, curcumin seems to be very hit or miss for tolerance. Its probably neuroprotective in amphetamine users regardless, but I want to have a reproducible tolerance reduction protocol drafted up eventually.

Part of me thinks that curcumin's effectiveness in some of the less dramatic cases of tolerance reduction was simply its MAOI properties allowing an easier tolerance break to occur, but that doesn't explain all of it.
 
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306452211008438 Evidence for continued cell death up to 3 months following single massive doses in rats.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/syn.20989/full Working out is good for your brain, who knew?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/syn.20799/full Blurb on possible long term effects on g protein signalling.
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v35/n3/full/npp2009169a.html A protective role for FosB?
http://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/4/6/822/ NAChR's are bound by MDMA and METH, probable role in ROS generation

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306452210009504 pleiotrophin inactivation increases neurotoxicity in mouse model
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-ZQYK200807019.htm Curcumin downregulates pleiotrophin in a much different cell line, unsure of possible relevance
 
Reversal of Amphetamine Sensitization / Novel Treatment for Schizophrenia

PDF is posted below. Basically, for AMPH-sensitized individuals, NMDA antagonism by memantine accomponied by D2, but not D1 agonism, reverses sensitization and may be a novel theraputic approach for treating schizophrenia: who would've thunk it- treating schizophrenia with amphetamine? Serotoninergic mechanism are also discussed, as specific sub-receptors. Evidently, there are different combinations that result in the same effect. So maybe chronic low-dose AMPH with sufficient NMDA antagonism/normalization, WITHOUT drug holidays is an effective way of reversing sensitization.



http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-5949.2010.00218.x/pdf
 
I've been taking small doses (2.5mg) of Selegiline ( Deprenyl ) w/ my usual 60-70 mgs of adderall. I find that if anything it "blunts" the crazie-ness just enough, and also prevents bad comedowns. I only take the 2.5 mg every other day though.

I'm also injecting large quantities of b12/beplex forte complex with a large syringe into both my butt-cheeks lol... this helps fo sho.


And finally in the past I have taken a week off all "uppers" (pretty much all drugs) then taken at least one full bottle of robitussin (330mgs DXM or more) .... and the trip is always incredible .. and within two days AFTER the DXM trip my tolerance is back to being very low.
 
<3 honestly stimulants have a lot more to do with 5HT2A than most people think as far as "liking" and psychosis goes.
But, would you be interesting in posting further finds like this in the big amphetamine tolerance thread I have going? I think it would get more views there and help consolidate our knowledge of the topic.

I can move this if you'd like.
 
Sure fam, please do. If I don't have success with this I may consider abilify, it's an antagonist of 5htp, can't remember which subtype. Thx for the feedback.
 
I agree with you completely too, they just think dopamine and don't consider the other system, plus there's something just under the surface, a grand unified theory of tolerance and sensitization, with glutumate, dopamine, and serotonin. I can feel it but can't name it. Too bad few U.S. institutions care, I gave up on my chem degree because it felt like high school, I do better on my own. Damn I want to be on the frontlines, but I can be here with you guys so it's cool.
 
Would anyone see any issues (toxicity wise) with combining Piracetam and Choline with Dexedrine? I have asked and researched before, but figured an additional answer would be helpful to the ongoing thread.

I have used this combination for a few months now and can say that I no longer suffer any sort of comedown from the amphetamine. I can't say that it enhances it, but that wasn't my goal, in the first place. I recommend this combination for those that suffer from comedown issues.
 
Would the psychological effects of amphetamines be reduced or enhanced if coadministered with Dl-3-n-butylphthalide(NBP) which was shown to upregulate VMAT2 gene expression alongside a host of other neuroprotective effects?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21524431 - VMAT2 upregulation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20347933 - Neuroprotective effects and mechanisms of action. (NBP was extracted from seeds of Apium graveolens Linn. (Chinese celery))
 
Tomer said:
Would anyone see any issues (toxicity wise) with combining Piracetam and Choline with Dexedrine? I have asked and researched before, but figured an additional answer would be helpful to the ongoing thread.

I have used this combination for a few months now and can say that I no longer suffer any sort of comedown from the amphetamine. I can't say that it enhances it, but that wasn't my goal, in the first place. I recommend this combination for those that suffer from comedown issues.
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Well racetams in general seem to be positive allosteric modulators of virtually every ion channel so with high dose amp's you might have a problem. Unfortunately there really isn't much data for me to go off of either way.
 
Epsilon Alpha said:
Well racetams in general seem to be positive allosteric modulators of virtually every ion channel so with high dose amp's you might have a problem. Unfortunately there really isn't much data for me to go off of either way.
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I typically don't take more than 20mg's on a given day and take regular breaks.
 
SgtCuddles said:
Would the psychological effects of amphetamines be reduced or enhanced if coadministered with Dl-3-n-butylphthalide(NBP) which was shown to upregulate VMAT2 gene expression alongside a host of other neuroprotective effects?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21524431 - VMAT2 upregulation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20347933 - Neuroprotective effects and mechanisms of action. (NBP was extracted from seeds of Apium graveolens Linn. (Chinese celery))
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I'll do some reading on this when I get the time, looks interesting and promising on paper. As a non-lithium upregulator of VMAT2 this might help UNDO some of the damage/ tolerance if it all pans out.
 
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