i are spectre
Bluelighter
so what do you think magnesiums' role is as most of us seem to benefit greatly physically and mentally from it?
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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
Amphetamine Neurotoxicity and Tolerance Reduction/Prevention III
- Thread starter Epsilon Alpha
- Start date
This thread has been of great value for my meth use, thank you all.
I was wondering if this all relates to MDMA or similar use as well? Not 100% sure? Or is there a similar analysis for MDMA by any chance.
I ask because my experience has been that issues and damage from MDMA are drastically greater them normal amphetamines. Would this thread apply for those as well perhaps? If not i think there may be value in similar thread for MDMA related concerns? Just wondering?
I was wondering if this all relates to MDMA or similar use as well? Not 100% sure? Or is there a similar analysis for MDMA by any chance.
I ask because my experience has been that issues and damage from MDMA are drastically greater them normal amphetamines. Would this thread apply for those as well perhaps? If not i think there may be value in similar thread for MDMA related concerns? Just wondering?
Epsilon Alpha
Bluelighter
Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, roughly 60% of the population is deficient IIRC. Supplementation back to normal levels explains that nicely.
I harbor a relatively unique level of hate for MDMA (mostly because I hate E-tards), most of it does carry over as amphetamines tend to cause most of their damage via ROS. MDMA seems to cause quite a bit more damage on a cellular level than meth or amphetamine, and as its usually dosed as a bolus of +100mg (lets assume 75% oral BA) it tends to fry things a bit faster, also as low dose meth use protects against later neurotoxicity from higher doses MDMA doesn't have that advantage for most.
Oh by the way I found some Chinese researchers tested my curcumin dosing regime in rats. It works. Fuck yeah EA!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22750063
I will concur that learning about and using che magnesium daily has helped tons beyond any drug use benefits
I have a similar dislike for the substance from a risk and health related perspective. It destroyed me in about 8 months of weekend only use resulting in 8 years of crippling anxiety and related issues. Comparatively more frequent cocaine use across 6 years did not result in anything near even 1% of the same level of impact. Even weekly multi day meth binges for a longer period had no negative impact at all when compared.
Serotonin drugs scare me, I wont touch that shit again. Meth gets the reputation as being the devil incarnate while the actual bad guy escapes any real blame disguised as as relatively harmless hippie love drug for fun in the clubs. I guess its easier demonizing meth users with bad teeth then bothering with tracing the emotional wrecks and ruined lives MDMA can leave behind. Sounds like a cover up to me but that is just the meth paranoia speaking. Im sure good old E is perfectly safe.
i are spectre
Bluelighter
Epsilon Alpha: "Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, roughly 60% of the population is deficient IIRC. Supplementation back to normal levels explains that nicely.'
i am specifically interested in the mechanisms associated with magnesium.
let's say i am deficient in magnesium and i take adderall on a weekend, then next weekend i take plenty of magnesium supplements along with adderall again. in this situation i would notice a drastic, positive effect.
now lets say i am magnesium deficient again a few months down the road and i take opiates or mdma, a cup of coffee, whatever. then again the following weekend i load up on tons of magnesium and take whatever i did the previous weekend. in this situation, i dont notice much of an effect at all.
what is your opinion on why magnesium specifically has such an acute effect on myself when taken before, during and after amphetamines?
i have always been a healthy eater, spending most of my hard earned cash on organic foods by a long shot. i really dont think i am magnesium deficient by any means. but when i take chelated magnesium with adderall it is like a new drug. ive given people chelated mg2+ when theyre tweakin hard on adderall and within 20 minutes theyre relaxed on the couch with an appetite,drinking fluids again, and trying to tell me there was xanax in the tab.
maybe this is all a product of my imagination but it seems like something significant is going on beyond '60% of americans are mg2+ deficient'
i am specifically interested in the mechanisms associated with magnesium.
let's say i am deficient in magnesium and i take adderall on a weekend, then next weekend i take plenty of magnesium supplements along with adderall again. in this situation i would notice a drastic, positive effect.
now lets say i am magnesium deficient again a few months down the road and i take opiates or mdma, a cup of coffee, whatever. then again the following weekend i load up on tons of magnesium and take whatever i did the previous weekend. in this situation, i dont notice much of an effect at all.
what is your opinion on why magnesium specifically has such an acute effect on myself when taken before, during and after amphetamines?
i have always been a healthy eater, spending most of my hard earned cash on organic foods by a long shot. i really dont think i am magnesium deficient by any means. but when i take chelated magnesium with adderall it is like a new drug. ive given people chelated mg2+ when theyre tweakin hard on adderall and within 20 minutes theyre relaxed on the couch with an appetite,drinking fluids again, and trying to tell me there was xanax in the tab.
maybe this is all a product of my imagination but it seems like something significant is going on beyond '60% of americans are mg2+ deficient'
^^ Your experience is the norm and is absolutely real and not your imagination.
Magnesium with proper absorption abilities has this impact with most new users when first combing with stimulants. The sensation of a new drug or some combo with significant improvements is exactly how i described the results myself. The basic data on the mechanisms of magnesium in this context does explain why this might help to a great degree.
To this day i can be on a 3 day meth binge and take a che mag tab 100mg and vanish much of any side effects that might be tormenting me at the time. Its awesome.
Magnesium with proper absorption abilities has this impact with most new users when first combing with stimulants. The sensation of a new drug or some combo with significant improvements is exactly how i described the results myself. The basic data on the mechanisms of magnesium in this context does explain why this might help to a great degree.
To this day i can be on a 3 day meth binge and take a che mag tab 100mg and vanish much of any side effects that might be tormenting me at the time. Its awesome.
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Quiglesigles
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 30, 2012
- Messages
- 78
Blight12 is that really all you need to get effects? I have heard you are supposed to use 400mg mg chelate to get much out of it.
i are spectre
Bluelighter
yes but what do you think the mechanism is behind this phenomena?
by the way another otc supplement that blew me out of the water was L-Theanine. that taken alone had blatantly noticeable effects. i believe some sources suggest it is a dopamine releaser and a possible neuroprotective agent, not to mention a wide range of other kick ass benefits (especially when taken in combination with caffeine).
i was afraid it would diminish much of amphetamines desired properties but that was not the case, at all. i now take L-Theanine, Mg2+ Chelates, Sodium Carbonate, and loads of water each time i use adderall. ive managed to cut my dosages in half while the effects last much, much longer with little (sometimes zero) side effects.
I know this thread is about amphetamine, but...YES! I had a debate on MDMA neurotoxicity with an "ecstasy" mod and all he could come up with was that its not usually fatal and the opinions of three researchers (or was it two?) and that of Nutthead. But there's this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/20/ecstacy-doesnt-damage-the_n_825704.html, and a few similar studies
Amphetamine sub ~40mg/day is safe, especially with Mg.
Epsilon Alpha
Bluelighter
Nutts a pretty decent scientist, but with a definite flair for the dramatic. (Meth)amphetamine is pretty safe too if you want to look at prescribed doses and raw fatalities, however you need to look at the dosing patterns and the lifestyle associated with each drug. Amphetamine users have a much higher rate of just going on binges. Binges are bad mmmkay? But, in all seriousness there are a lot of cellular mechanisms that seem to be time sensitive such as ubiquitin proteasome system inhibition and autophagy changes that you likely aren't going to see with a single reasonable dose of either drug. MDMA is generally in and out of one's system in 18ish hours as are the more standard amphetamines. But, you need to look at the potential for redosing before coming to conclusions.
We all have heard of that guy who went on a massive 1g MDMA binge at week long festival XYZ and paid for it, its rare though and quick to be dismissed as just one guy just being a dumbass. However, when you hear of some random guy going through 2-3g of meth in a two week binge you're just like "yep, seems about right".
Don't get me wrong, its that person's body and so long as they keep their shit together I don't care, but as soon as someone starts brushing off the possible consequences of drug use (stoners, basement shamans, and E-tards are the worst for this) you evoke the wrath of EA.
Epsilon Alpha
Bluelighter
Have you dosed magnesium daily without amphetamine? I mean it does a lot of good for the body and the mind on its own. But, in my personal experience dosing amphetamine after taking magnesium daily doesn't produce that noticeable of an effect. It does have some protective effects on energy production through the ATP link you mentioned before, but its pretty tightly regulated in the brain so unless the 5% increase you get with acute supplementation changes things a lot more than I'm expecting I'd just assume its due to a deficiency.
Granted I've been wrong before and I haven't done more than a cursory glance at the literature, so feel free to do some looking around if you think there is more to it
logarithm
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
- Messages
- 62
Is a 1g MDMA binge really that bad? Isn't all the serotonin pretty fast depleted either?
In short, yes.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
You don't want SERT reversal in a context where 5ht is depleted, as this makes it even more likely that SERT will soon accept toxic metabolites, in the absence of 5ht to take up. So a 1 gm. binge remains quite bad.
ebola
John Barleycorn
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
- Messages
- 6
Speaking on a purely personal basis, I loathe topiramate. By itself, it seems to put a hole in my head as well as bringing on a certain dysphoria. I have always understood that its main use was to reverse pathological conditions, such as seizures or, less drastically, runaway nervous excitability after a drug or alcohol bender. So I can certainly see the point of acute applications, but would have to investigate further regarding the utility of chronic applications. For some reason, I have always linked it together with clonidine (an adrenergic antagonist) as something useful for the recovery, but not so much the party, and certainly not the pre-party.
DJHENRU
Bluelighter
Can you confirm sodium carbonate(nearly every search brings up misnamed baking soda) what doses and what effects? thanks.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Sodium carbonate for *what*? It won't reduce tolerance. It just enhances absorbtion of amphetamine by alkalising the stomach.
Sodium carbonate is probably too alkaline to be drinking... it's aka washing soda, and is pH 10 in a saturated solution, which will burn your mouth. Sodium bicarbonate (sodium hydrogen carbonate) is baking soda and is probably just fine.
Sodium carbonate is probably too alkaline to be drinking... it's aka washing soda, and is pH 10 in a saturated solution, which will burn your mouth. Sodium bicarbonate (sodium hydrogen carbonate) is baking soda and is probably just fine.
logarithm
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
- Messages
- 62
@ebola? Sorry I dont understand what you say.... But I thought that above 150mg you don't have any additional effect? So all neurotransmitters are depleted. Thats why you dont get a new effect when you redose. So where does any additional toxicity come from?
DJHENRU
Bluelighter
I know I just wanted To understand its difference between Ca++ carbon, NA+ bicarb and it.(overdose includes low blood pressure I think and faint heartbeat. Somewhat similar to hypermagnesemia. I wonder about though how its related to heart failure though)
I have heard of sodium carbonate I believe in tobacco shamanism that ashes of plants derived salts but Im pretty sure that this was to increase oral and nasal BA, not for ingestion.
I have told about this before but a common example is ookoohe.
The mckenna brothers went in search of why it worked, but anyways couldn't stand the effects at all.
Jonathon ott claimed ookoohe resin is more for applying to the gums and lips.
Whats weirder is the whole thing about some naturopaths say baking soda is good for cancer, But what of antioxidants role then in helping oxidation of what amphetamine targets? This isn't really ending with a answerable question but its not necessarily monolog.
I have heard of sodium carbonate I believe in tobacco shamanism that ashes of plants derived salts but Im pretty sure that this was to increase oral and nasal BA, not for ingestion.
I have told about this before but a common example is ookoohe.
The mckenna brothers went in search of why it worked, but anyways couldn't stand the effects at all.
Jonathon ott claimed ookoohe resin is more for applying to the gums and lips.
Whats weirder is the whole thing about some naturopaths say baking soda is good for cancer, But what of antioxidants role then in helping oxidation of what amphetamine targets? This isn't really ending with a answerable question but its not necessarily monolog.