Amanita Muscaria Preparation with (evaporator?)

[TheDeceased]

Hello.

So mushroom season is beginning again and it's time to kick it off with a Muscaria trip. It's been about five years since I left the universe. It is the only drug that creates such a satisfying experience that I typically don't need to repeat it for a long time, always less than once a year.

Anyway, simple question, I don't have an oven.

But I do have an evaporator.

If I evaporate the caps at the highest setting (roughly 60 degrees c) would this be adequate? I've only ever prepared Muscaria caps in the oven before. Note: my evaporator has a filter screen so the liquid that comes out of the caps can be contained and re-soaked into the fungus. That's not what I'm concerned about. It is the temperature that I'm not sure about.

Most Muscaria recipes/ preparation methods that I've read say to put the oven on the lowest setting and leave the door open... is using an evaporator going to have the same effect?

Please don't say that the drug is shit, people. If you failed to achieve what it has to offer, that's unfortunate - but it is not shit. When done properly it is considerably more potent than DMT and longer lasting. It is God.

A relatively quick reply would be useful as the caps will go off within the next 48 hours.

Thank you,
-TheDeceased

P.S. Tis the season people. Not Christmas. The good season. Get out there and start rummaging through the forests. I met a fellow hunter today - I always seem to run into them in Melbourne. They are out there, hiding under bushes... the mushrooms, not the people... The people are in the sun, getting down on their knees and literally reconnecting with nature. Touch the dirt. Taste it. Mushroom season!

Hooray.

 

[DwayneHoover]

That should be sufficient for the drying under heat phase of the prep... but I bet that does not totally convert all the sickening ibotenic acid into muscimol... so I would get a hot plate so you can also do the 45min low simmering that the prep procedures call for ... I bet the addition of water catalyzes every last bit of the conversion process.

 

[TheDeceased]

So, sorry to be stupid, but I am a little drunk at this point - I should boil the mixture after I evaporate it, cannabutter style? Yes? I read another recipe that said to boil the mixture up after grinding it but I have had incredibly difficult experiences trying to achieve the actual proper inter-dimensional Muscaria trip. Most of the people I have prepared it for in the past have either not been able to ingest it or have been sick and not had the positive effects.

The thing I was wondering about the evaporator.... what about my vaporizer? like, and I don't know much about this, but if temperature is the issue, what if I vaporize the A. Muscaria, ground up, and then vaporized it at the exact temperature that it converts? My vape is pretty fucking accurate... But I don't know if this would work.

?

 

[DwayneHoover]

Honestly I don't know. All I know is following James Arthur's recipe exactly gave me good results... first drying, then grinding and simmering (just barely start to bubble) for 45 min, then strain out the solids and cool/sweeten then drink the brew water. Marijuana very potently prevents the nausea from Amanita quite nicely. Then lay back and wait for the In/Out Dream Trip sequences.

 

[✰hyperobjects✰]

Also, just putting your fungi in a brown paper bag and leaving it to dry works just as well, but if you're working on a schedule do what you must.

A thing I really enjoy doing with amanitas is making hot chocolate with them. I typically will take a cup and a half of almond milk, bring it to a almost to a boil and soak mushroom material for about 20ish minutes, and then strain out and make sure you squeeze out the mushroom flesh well enough, and add hersey's syrup. It's delicious, no mushroom taste, and in my experience no nausea. Amanita's a weird trip, last time I did them the trip was just a super-fast voice talking non-stop in my head.

 

[Survived Abortion]

TheDeceased, what method did you use to achieve your successful amanita trips before? Can you not simply prepare them in the same way that you did before? I have heard that the chemicals in amanita (ibotenic acid and muscimol) are pretty robust, and should easily withstand 60 degrees centigrade. Heat is necessary if you want to convert ibotenic acid in to muscimol.

I'm curious, I wonder if your sucessful trips with amanita have been with unconverted ibotenic acid. Did they make you vomit?

Also, just putting your fungi in a brown paper bag and leaving it to dry works just as well, but if you're working on a schedule do what you must.

A thing I really enjoy doing with amanitas is making hot chocolate with them. I typically will take a cup and a half of almond milk, bring it to a almost to a boil and soak mushroom material for about 20ish minutes, and then strain out and make sure you squeeze out the mushroom flesh well enough, and add hersey's syrup. It's delicious, no mushroom taste, and in my experience no nausea. Amanita's a weird trip, last time I did them the trip was just a super-fast voice talking non-stop in my head.

Amanita is a weird one indeed. I shared a large cap with a friend, and after about half an hour I had the irresitable urge to blow chunks, whilst salivating profusely. We ate the cap raw, dried. It had a strange bendy effect on my vision, and I felt 'out of sorts' for a little while, but I cannot really compare it to anything to give a proper explanation. My friend was most unimpressed. I wonder if I should have cooked the amanita.

I would actually like to know more about this. It's a strange anomaly in the psychedelic world.

 

[TheDeceased]

Yes you should have cooked it. I've never heard of anyone attempting to eat raw Amanita before. My cat did it once when I left some caps out on the counter and she walked around the house drooling, like you said. She looked pretty out of it but it definitely didn't look pleasant. You're lucky you only had half a cap. My dose level is around five or six large caps. If you had that much, raw, you may have died or seriously damaged yourself. Unheated, they are very poisonous.

To answer your question, in order to have a successful experience, I have heated the mushroom material on a tray lined with aluminum foil. The foil is necessary to catch any liquid that seeps out. I find that at around 60-80 degrees it starts seeping. Every fifteen minutes or so, I turn the pieces over and soak the juice back into the caps/stems. After a couple of hours they stop seeping and are dry enough to grind. Then I grind them and put the ground material in some water, boil it for a couple of hours, drain the material and then back the broth into a stew.

I have them drying overnight on the lowest evaporator setting. What I'm going to do is do the heating up part once they're in the water. Obviously boiling water is going to be higher than sixty degrees... so it should do the trick anyway unless I'm missing something?

Dose is very fragile with the fly killer. A partial Amanatia Muscaria trip is unpleasant. If you are still conscious, it will be unpleasant basically. You are not supposed to be conscious. You are supposed to have muscle spasms and are rolling around and making strange sounds while in a comatose like state. That's what it looks like from the outside. The trip itself is not pleasant in nature either. It is kind of horrifyingly massive and mind blowing. It is not a social aide nor will you be capable of doing anything whatsoever during a trip. It is a vision or a series of visions. Some of them are horrifying in a DMT kind of way. The themes are life and death. The universe. The meaning of everything. It is a very circular trip. The "stories" that you experience are all cyclical. The message is generally uplifting despite the scope of it.

I tend to come out of the experience feeling refreshed and re-assured of my place in the universe.

Note: I usually consume Muscaria with a couple of grams of dried Psilocybin shrooms (P. Subs) and some weed.

 

[Survived Abortion]

^Blimey, sounds a bit too heavy for me!

 

[TheDeceased]

^Blimey, sounds a bit too heavy for me!

You survived an abortion...

Seriously though, yeah I don't recommend this drug to anyone. It is not for most folks. It's certainly not something to do with your friends when you're bored. Personally I need a couple of days to prepare, mentally. Even then it might not work. I might be sick. It tastes terrible and it's very difficult to keep down. Most people I've seen attempt to eat it have had trouble swallowing it, let alone keeping it in their stomach for half an hour. I have given up on trying to introduce other people to this drug. My ex-wife tried and failed three or four times, a number of friends have tried and failed repeatedly also. The main issue is being able to consume and digest a large amount of poisonous fungus without being sick. I think it's the psychological thing for most people, knowing that it's poisonous. It's hard to keep down.

Villagers used to drink the urine of the shamans who had consumed Muscaria, because it is still active (a number of times) after you have passed it... so if you can find someone who can digest it, then just drink their pee!

 

[DwayneHoover]

Also, just putting your fungi in a brown paper bag and leaving it to dry works just as well,

No it doesnt.

Drying then boiling is essential to convert all the deleriant Ibptenic acid into the dissociative psychedelic muscimol. Look up.

And my Amanita trip were definitely more in the realm of visionary dream trances, actually a series of them that I would fall into, then awaken from and remember (WHOA!), then back out for another round for a couple hours. Very epic, mythological, and other-worldly, quite amazing. Not quite as bad as above description, but also not exactly recreational either.

 

[Survived Abortion]

It seems there's a bit of confusion over the preparation of Amanita Muscaria. According to sources on Erowid, the decarboxylation of Ibotenic acid can occur by simply drying the mushroom.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas_basics.shtml

These quotes are from the Erowid Psychoactive Amanita vault:

"The primary effects of amanitas come from ibotenic acid and muscimol. Muscimol affects the GABA system, while ibotenic acid simulates glutamate in the brain. When baked or dried, ibotenic acid transforms into the more-potent muscimol through decarboxylation."

http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas_basics.shtml

"Supposedly, if properly dried they are okay if you start with NO MORE THAN 1/4-1/2 CUP OF CHOPPED OR SAUTEED MATERIAL. According to Johnathan Ott, "These mushrooms are powerful. The effective dose range may be narrow. If it is exceeded, even by a small amount, a dissociative experience may result, even a comatose state or an inability to function. Of course, there are many who desire this kind of effect [I love that]; no doubt it would be alarming to others. There are many unanswered questions concerning the toxicity of these mushrooms. It has been suggested, and there is some evidence to support this, that the toxicity may vary according to location and season." The drying process turns ibotenic acid into muscimol, multiplying the potency by 5 or 6, and reduces bad side-effects."

http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas_info4.shtml

It would also seem that the raw Amanita Muscaria mushroom can be eaten in sufficient quantity to cause intoxication without death.

http://www.williamrubel.com/mushrooms/amanita-muscaria

From William Rubel's blog:

"Too many raw muscarias can kill you, but a normal person would have to eat a fantastic quantity, so death from Amanita muscariais not a significant risk to the many people who eat it for its mind-altering qualities."

http://www.williamrubel.com/mushrooms/amanita-muscaria

However, it would seem that this is the most undesirable way of consuming A. Muscaria. Apparantly, only the muscimol is required for A. Muscaria trip. The action of Ibotenic acid on the glutamate system would account for the feelings I experienced.

According to William Rubel, the toxins are water-friendly so any boiling will wash them away for culinary preparation.

"Amanita muscaria is one of a large number of mushrooms that includes toxins that can affect you — in the case of muscaria by making you intoxicated — but whose toxins are water soluble, and can therefore be washed away through boiling. Once mushrooms of this type have been properly prepared for eating there is no longer anything toxic about them. (See Alan Phipps Master’s Thesis (2000) on the place of Anaminta muscaria in the traditional diet of Sanada, Japan, for a modern study on detoxifying A. muscaria.)"

http://www.williamrubel.com/mushrooms/amanita-muscaria

 

[TheDeceased]

Although it may take quite a lot of raw material to actually kill you, it could seriously fuck up your insides permanently. Like I said, it's a good thing you only consumed half a cap. With no-one to trip sit for you and no experience with the drug, you are putting yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. The toxicity level, for an average male, is between one cap and fifteen caps (being the LD50). So if you ate six caps, raw, it would fuck you up - which is what I was saying. (Aside from brain damage, it causes liver and kidney failure.)

Too many raw muscarias can kill you, but a normal person would have to eat a fantastic quantity, so death from Amanita muscariais not a significant risk to the many people who eat it for its mind-altering qualities.

This quote from William Rubel (I don't know who that is) shouldn't be taken out of context. You seem to be implying that it is relatively safe to eat. It is not relatively safe to eat. Not one cap, not half a cap. This is a harm reduction forum and there is absolutely no reason to eat it raw. None whatsoever. If you couldn't be bothered spending a couple of hours preparing it, then don't eat it. There are minor quantities of arsenic that can be consumed on a daily basis without causing death, but that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that it is a sensible thing to do.

Yeah there is some question about the heating process. Some people say you can prepare it by drying it. Some mention the seepage, some don't. There is really a lack of good information on the preparation process. The way I figure it is I'm in no hurry and boiling it certainly isn't going to do it any harm. Also I like the massively long lead-up to Muscaria: the ceremony, making the brew, the mental preparation... I abuse many things. This mushroom is the only drug that remains holy, perfect, untarnished. I will never abuse it.

I honestly believe it to be the basis of religion and many of the world's mythologies. It had such a profound effect on me the first time that I reconsidered the existence of God, which was strange as at the time I was hardcore Jesus hating atheist. That first experience opened my mind to the possibilities of the universe. I accepted my mortality. I experienced death and rebirth. I was in another dimension and I could feel in that dimension. Not like in a dream. I had full senses, more than full, my senses were heightened.

When I go into detail about what I saw, it freaks people out, but at the time it was horrifyingly simple. It was death, but it made sense. It still makes sense to me today. Rebirth is beautiful. There were an infinite number of people before me and an infinite number after me, all dying and being reborn. I saw the human race at a different rate. I was in a pile of bodies, corpses, that were stockpiled waiting to be reborn. I felt myself inflate like a limp balloon. I can still feel it now. It was the most beautiful feeling imaginable. I was nothing, and then slowly I came into existence until I was fully three dimensional, fully alive. It felt like I was on an endless production line. Around me, naked people are reborn. I can see the joy in their faces, the tears in their eyes. I wake up and drift into another vision. It goes on and on. One after another. The cycle. Life and death. Horrific but beautiful. Hauntingly beautiful. Like a chiropractor for the soul. Muscaria...

 

[Survived Abortion]

Although it may take quite a lot of raw material to actually kill you, it could seriously fuck up your insides permanently. Like I said, it's a good thing you only consumed half a cap. With no-one to trip sit for you and no experience with the drug, you are putting yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. The toxicity level, for an average male, is between one cap and fifteen caps (being the LD50). So if you ate six caps, raw, it would fuck you up - which is what I was saying. (Aside from brain damage, it causes liver and kidney failure.)

Can you provide some links or references, because I disagree. Amanita phalloides and Amanita ocreata will do that to your organs, not muscaria.

 

[Survived Abortion]

You seem to be implying that it is relatively safe to eat. It is not relatively safe to eat. Not one cap, not half a cap. This is a harm reduction forum and there is absolutely no reason to eat it raw. None whatsoever. If you couldn't be bothered spending a couple of hours preparing it, then don't eat it.

It's absolutely nothing to do with "couldn't be bothered spending a couple hours preparing it". I'm not an idiot, pal, if I thought there was the slightest chance something would present an unreasonable danger of toxitity then I wouldn't pursue it. I obviously knew what I was doing, and in my research I've been proven correct, in that during the drying process, ibotenic acid is converted to muscimol. As I said in my first reply to this thread:

We ate the cap raw, dried.

If you're going to go on about this being a harm reduction forum and slate my information as dangerous, then why say this:

P.S. Tis the season people. Not Christmas. The good season. Get out there and start rummaging through the forests. I met a fellow hunter today - I always seem to run into them in Melbourne. They are out there, hiding under bushes... the mushrooms, not the people... The people are in the sun, getting down on their knees and literally reconnecting with nature. Touch the dirt. Taste it. Mushroom season!

Take a leaf out of your own harm reduction book mate.

 

[TheDeceased]

What you quoted from me about the season is not mis-information. You are still offering harmful information. Amanita Muscaria is a dangerous neurotoxic mushroom that should not be eaten raw, dried or otherwise.

Muscaria has killed people. Before it kills people it damages organs. Look it up yourself. You admitted initially that it requires heat and that according to you can withstand greater than sixty. So I don't see how you could also believe that it is possible to completely prepare it via drying it. As you admitted yourself, there is some ambiguity. You may be able to find a source that says drying is okay. You may be able to find six.

In the end, if you did your homework why would you be eating half a raw cap, dried or otherwise?

It is the wrong dose.