Am I too Independent?

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I actually like independent women and men.

I have been with people who were way too clingy, needy, obsessive (to the point of stalking or sort of harassing and this was after we'd previously both agreed that we were going to have a one night stand or NSA sex), people who didn't have jobs or real goals, and men who I dated who wanted to pay for things for me which I didn't like. The one guy I dated was in debt and insisted upon paying for dinner for me when I was fully capable of doing this myself. This other guy I briefly dated who I thought was a major flake and drama queen did offer to buy me some tea, so since he was buying I ordered a medium or large one.

I have had people who wanted to date or have a LTR with me constantly text me and I have no patience for that so I ignore the texts or if it's really bad I'll tell them "Stop texting me I don't want to see you again."

 

[MyFinalRest]

"independent" is such a loaded term these days. You never know what it means when somebody says it. Most often, I've found that people who are quick to claim it actually have serious issues with dependence or intimacy/trust. People should at least be independent enough to not seek money from their partner, be able to take care of somethings themselves from time to time etc. but purposely trying to not include a partner in their social life and avoiding contact quickly gets hateful and hurtful.

In a relationship, you are going to give up some independence, and that's what is actually great about it! You're not always on your own anymore!

 

[!_MDMA_!]

i think it varies as we morph as individuals whove been affected by previous life circumstances. for example, someone might be looking for a relationship with an independent woman until that speciic woman cheats on him for whatever reason. next time around he may not want someone so independent simply because of past experiences.

personally i like a girl that isnt independent, in a relationship i want someone wholl need and want me as well as be someone i can rely and be dependent on. but thats just me, im strongly independent on my own but id want the somewhat-opposite from a significant other.

 

[Jean-Paul]

LOL and also, just fucking sad, that this OP would even fucking care. i am admittedly, stereotypically, a "man thinking" woman in a lot of ways, yet with a lot of "womanly" dependency issues in certain situations. bottom line here, is gender isn't what matters and what this guy thinks is attractive or any guy thinks is attractive doesn't matter. it's quite common for men to have one night stands and guess what? it's quite common for women to have one night stands. just because you didn't get all cut up and butthurt because your one night stand didn't want to fall in love doesn't mean you are more like a man. the image of a woman who cannot fuck a man without falling in love with him (and therefore being a sex maniac slut if so) is antiquated and retarded. do not invest too much in the off the cuff sexist remark this man made to you.

 

[KamMoye]

LOL and also, just fucking sad, that this OP would even fucking care. i am admittedly, stereotypically, a "man thinking" woman in a lot of ways, yet with a lot of "womanly" dependency issues in certain situations. bottom line here, is gender isn't what matters and what this guy thinks is attractive or any guy thinks is attractive doesn't matter. it's quite common for men to have one night stands and guess what? it's quite common for women to have one night stands. just because you didn't get all cut up and butthurt because your one night stand didn't want to fall in love doesn't mean you are more like a man. the image of a woman who cannot fuck a man without falling in love with him (and therefore being a sex maniac slut if so) is antiquated and retarded. do not invest too much in the off the cuff sexist remark this man made to you.

Good post.

It is scary because the vast majority of men I meet are constantly trying to assert their will over your way of life. They do this in subtle and not-so-subtle reasons. Sexism is so perverse in this society. The comment about the OP "thinking like a man" is one such example. No, it's not that she's unique, unlike anything he's come across; those are "manly" qualities, therefore she must be thinking like a man.

 

[Cornishman]

 

[Kerrigan]

"independent" is such a loaded term these days. You never know what it means when somebody says it. Most often, I've found that people who are quick to claim it actually have serious issues with dependence or intimacy/trust. People should at least be independent enough to not seek money from their partner, be able to take care of somethings themselves from time to time etc. but purposely trying to not include a partner in their social life and avoiding contact quickly gets hateful and hurtful.

In a relationship, you are going to give up some independence, and that's what is actually great about it! You're not always on your own anymore!

And that's the problem. Who wants to feel redundant?

I've no problem with either: there're clingy women and women who won't call for days because they trust you to take care of yourself and expect them to do the same. It is not about being needed, so much as wanted; I like to be trusted, and to have someone talk to me and share themselves with me, not to simply cut me off from parts of their life and constantly say "it's fine" or "I don't want to discuss it", because that's just not trust. It hurts, really, when something like that happens because you know that you'd give anything to help this person, but you also know that they wouldn't do the same for you, and perhaps don't see you as important to them, and maybe they just say "I love you" because it rolls right off the tongue very easily.

Be a provider? In this day and age, surely we can split that job down the middle?

Be needed? Women are equal to men and these days a man isn't necessary when it comes to anything, save for the small donation of sperm required for conception of a future-child. The thing is, I'd rather be wanted than needed, as if she's only seeing me because there's something she "needs" from me; no, no, no. That simply won't do! Say she needs money, then I give her the money that she needs and she disappears or cordially thanks me, then goes back to her life.

That
Is
Not
Good

On the other hand, say that she wants to speak to someone she trusts about matters incredibly private and personal, would like some advice, or just feels like some good old-fashioned sex? Fantastic. I'm there. It would be my pleasure to help out. See, I'm not redundant in any way because neither of us need one another for worldly goods or money or a dance partner, but we do need one another because we've such a strong emotional connection to one another; we're in love, or we're such great friends that we give advice and there's meaning in that and it's important to be loved. It absolutely feels wonderful. But, needed? No. I don't think any man needs a woman and I don't think any woman needs a man, either, we're simply drawn to one another for no other reason than we happen to fit together really well in some cases, either literally with genitals and whatnot, or philosophically with personalities and so-on.

Independence is fine, but there seem to be many different interpretations of "independence" and I wouldn't really think too hard about what that guy said to you: it doesn't make you manly, it simply makes you less traditionally-feminine, if that makes sense? As in, you're less like women decades ago and females in general have been trying to break through glass ceilings everywhere and gain equality to men. But then they want to hop into the lifeboats first, too — you can't have it both ways, womankind: either you're put on a special pedestal or you stand on the dirty ground with all of us fat, sweaty men!

Spend the rest of your lives with a neck-ache, staring up at what's really on the pedestal, which is...

 

[Lysis]

I recently met this guy and we ended up having a 1 night stand (fine with me, I just got out of a relationship and don't want anything serious). We talked all night, and he said I must be very intimidating to alot of men because I am so independent. He said I think like a man. It has been bothering me for a little bit. I do everything for myself because I am the only one that i can count on. The next morning he kept asking me if I was ok, like I was supposed to feel something. I told him I was great (I really felt great, no regrets). He is from the UK, and I am from the US. My question is, do most guys find independent women not as attractive???

As with anything, it's OK in moderation. People who are too detached from emotional bonding can be cold and lack compassion for the other person. Independent in terms of working and supporting yourself aren't something to be proud of. It should be something people should do regardless, but then again, there are plenty of mooches out there.

In what context was he mentioning that you "think like a man?" From the post, it sounds like he was more thinking along the lines of promiscuity.

I guess I don't understand the correlation between having a 1 night stand and being independent.

I'd rather be wanted than needed

This was an awesome line and so very very true.

 

[MyFinalRest]

Thanks for the responses. Ever since I was on my own I never had to depend on a guy for money. I have always had a job and my own place to live. I love my life. I would love to have someone that isn't intimidated by me. A strong guy, not one that I would be able to walk all over. That is a big turn off.

Woah...redflag right here. Anytime I hear a woman say this I know she is admitting to be the type that walks over people. You do not want someone who will even *try* to take advantage of you, male or female. I have never tried to make a doormat out of a friend or lover that trusted me. That is immoral as hell. People like this cannot differentiate from kindness and weakness or kindness from manipulation.

 

[KamMoye]

Anytime I hear a woman say this I know she is admitting to be the type that walks over people.

IMO you're projecting.

You do not want someone who will even *try* to take advantage of you, male or female.

It is usually done subconsciously.

That is immoral as hell.

Judging things as immoral requires willpower. Willpower pales in comparison to habitual actions. You can be moral in your brain and immoral in real life. There is significant lag time in knowing what is right and doing what is right. It is an ongoing process.

 

[MyFinalRest]

no KamMoye, it's not subconscious, unless you really are that out of reality. Not considering someone else's feelings is just having a limited consciousness, not "sub-consciousness."

IMO you're projecting

No, I'm not. I never talk about or even consider walking on people that are my friends or lovers. I simply don't do it, and it worries me when I hear something along the lines of "if you don't act a certain way you deserve to be walked on." Nobody deserves to be walked on for being a bit on the passive side. It's time America grows the fuck up and learns that that kind of abusive behavior is not acceptable. Maybe if you are a jerk who takes advantage of other people, then you might deserve to be walked on. True victims do not deserve to be walked on because they don't behave aggressively.

If anything there might be some baggage and resentment of having had people who I thought were friends try to take advantage of me. In a love relationship, I'm willing to make sacrifices to demonstrate what she means to me, but I don't want to be walked on for it. I just want it accepted as an effort to bring a bit of happiness into someone's life.

Judging things as immoral requires willpower. Willpower pales in comparison to habitual actions. You can be moral in your brain and immoral in real life.

That's only true if someone is a total flake or hypocrite. I don't always translate willpower into getting the dishes completely done every 2 days, but I'm sorry, not taking advantage of people that care for you is not difficult. It's actually pretty fucking natural for me. I recieve love, I love in return. I don't understand how certain people get notions to abuse people who trust and love them.
If a woman acts passive and giving towards me, I don't get ideas akin to "she gives me an inch, I'm gonna a take a fucking mile!"

There is significant lag time in knowing what is right and doing what is right. It is an ongoing process.

But, at some point you do learn and begin doing what is right if you're not a complete asshole. I've made mistakes, but I do what it takes to soothe the hurt and make up for it and naturally don't repeat them.

 

[spacejunk]

do not invest too much in the off the cuff sexist remark this man made to you.

this. the guy sounds like a bit of a jerk from that one comment alone.
why should a man have a problem with a self-reliant, strong woman?

 

[KamMoye]

Everybody is different. Boxing people in with your expectations is a recipe for disappointment.

 

[_mistresspoppy_]

Independent as in you're capable of taking care of yourself and don't need constant reassurance to feel loved? As a bi female, that is damn sexy! Old-fashioned guys tend to be turned off by a strong woman, because they see women as incompetent, mewling infants who must cry to a big strong man to be taken care of. You don't need that kind of guy. If you are independent meaning you don't want to feel attached to another human being, I can see it being difficult to form lasting relationships, but I'd still find you an extremely appealing choice for a one night stand. However, this is a woman's opinion, probably not what you're looking for