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Am I technically sober if the only thing I am addicted to is caffeine?

I havent read the other replies, I don't have that kind of time.

The answer is Yes You ARE Sober. Caffeine addiction is not the same class.
 
alpha_centauri said:
Sorry but it does not work that way. That's your addict/addictive voice speaking when you think that you can use certain drugs but not ones you had issues/addictions with and still be 'clean' or 'sober'. In reality you're either using drugs and not sober/clean, or you abstain from all drugs including ones that you did not have issues or addiction with and are actually sober/clean.
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alpha_centauri Are you serious? A medical doctor, psychiatrist and other addiction specialists would NOT consider caffeine a drug. If caffeine is a drug, then so is sugar. If so, I hope every addict in recovery has a 100% Sugar Free Diet, otherwise they are not sober.
 
Caffeine most definitely is a drug, it's a mild psychostimulant capable of causing mild dependence.

That said, I'm not agreeing with alpha_centauri either, saying you can't drink coffee and call yourself clean or sober is retarded. It's paying exclusive attention to the technicalities while completely ignoring the meaning.

Even though caffeine is a drug, and capable of causing dependence, I would argue that it virtually never causes addiction. I've never heard of anyone selling all their property or selling their body for caffeine. Caffeine is a drug but not the kind of drug generally within the scope of addiction. Arguing you're not clean if you drink coffee is stupid, I agree. But it is a drug.

But like big bird Gemini said it's not in the same class. Even if a handful of people really are addicted to caffeine, which I'm far from convinced of, it's a rarity. For most people including addicts it'll never be a problem. If you don't have a problem with it, and using it doesn't lead you to a substance you do have a problem with, then it's use is irrelevant and harmless.
 
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I would switch to strong BULK BREWED green tea way better, chearer & has no additives (flavorants etc) shortly said, a real thing, brew it with 90C water for 5-10 mins(after sorting the fluid repeat brewing by pourin new water for as wealthy, rich brew; BUT only if the first portin was shifted by less then 8-10 minutes.

(Would start with one & half -2-max-3 spoons.On an emty stomch It will wake you feel like speed minus 80-90&% the euphoria, but when on empty I have to either down some omeprazole(better) before or drink a bit yougurt afterwards otherwise 10-30 mins after drinking I get nauseaus & puke.
...then start brew less & less(the tapering).
I would also get on ginseng/ashwaghanda(my personal choise these days, though it's a tie with panax) or maca, rhodiola etc (apart guarana cause it's also a coffeine based herb, while adaptogens work completely different from caffeine & other phenethylamines, stimulants etc, & stay on em after forever or as needed for better mental/physical wealth & helth & live a couple external years :)

& fuckin' grow self spirituality, it is there & not on the cross but everywhere & spinning the atoms for our whole holograma, hold a peice of it & then one of the issues is wili be able to realize a junkiy's dream to get full control on your recreational use & become one of those who close their yay beggies an put in closet for next holyday
 
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JessFR said:
Even though caffeine is a drug, and capable of causing dependence, I would argue that it virtually never causes addiction.
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That's not true... I went through 2 marriages in large part because of my caffeine addiction. The last straw with my second marriage was when my wife came home to coffee filters full of grounds strewn about the house and me shaking like a geriatrics patient. She filed for divorce shortly after that.
 
THECATINTHEHAT said:
Nope, I am afraid you are wholly incorrect sir. There is no one size fits all solution to recovery, we do not all have the same voice inside our head, we are not all bound for failure if we smoke two pulls on a joint, we do not all need 100% abstinence to recover from a damaging addiction and IT DOES NOT MATTER IF SOMEONE WANTS TO THINK OF THEMSELVES AS CLEAN DESPITE SOMETIMES CONSUMING A MIND ALTERING CHEMICAL WHETHER IT BE A CUP OF TEA OR A SPEEDBALL.

It's attitudes such as yours that closes off recovery to many people and makes them feel shit when they should be feeling positive and distracts from the real imperatives in recovery. It is not for you to decide whether someone is allowed to think of themselves as clean and give it the billy big bollocks 'I know your own mind better than you and am going to pigeonhole you'. Why not instead ask what changes they are making in their life to move away from the patterns of thought and behaviour that caused them to have a damaging relationship with drugs, help them examine whether their current usage is within their pattern of abuse and denial is preventing them from seeing it, whether it might be possible that new behaviours have moved them away from a pattern of abuse, examine what the dangers associated with their current using is however light it may be, ask what they feel is working for them in helping them move on to a new chapter in their life and how to replicate it in different areas, is someone's current life situation reflecting the theory that they are progressing in their recovery or does it in fact imply no progress is being made....

Recovery is not so black and white as clean or using and the attitude that it is fucks lots of people up and stops them from moving forward with their life. Why can't we instead actually have an honest and caring attitude towards people with drug problems and support them in finding a solution rather than trying to shut them down when they find something that is working for them just because it doesn't fit our outdated binary view of a successful recovery. Why can't we support people who are not 100% abstinent and include them in the recovery community as individuals just as deserving of respect and care as the people who do choose abstinence are? Why can't we be more proactive in calling out those people who are 'clean' but still a total fucking mess in reality and support them in realising that it's no use being abstinent if they don't change their life for the better, and then help them do so?

Rant over.
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Great post.
 
nuttynutskin said:
That's not true... I went through 2 marriages in large part because of my caffeine addiction. The last straw with my second marriage was when my wife came home to coffee filters full of grounds strewn about the house and me shaking like a geriatrics patient. She filed for divorce shortly after that.
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Wait...are you serious??
 
Yeah it got bad. At my worst I was doing up to 10 coffee enemas per day with a turkey baster at the peak of my addiction. I nearly died.
 
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Rare. Coffee is addictive in a negative sense for some. It is also the number one source of antioxidants and soluble fiber for the average American. They incessentally study it looking for negative health effects and just keep finding positives instead. Our drug-stressed livers LOVE coffee.
 
Big Bird Gemini said:
alpha_centauri Are you serious? A medical doctor, psychiatrist and other addiction specialists would NOT consider caffeine a drug. If caffeine is a drug, then so is sugar. If so, I hope every addict in recovery has a 100% Sugar Free Diet, otherwise they are not sober.
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I was writing about people who claim to be "sober" or "clean" yet use drugs like cannabis/hash, psychedelics, opiates, MDMA, etc.
 
Mmp85 said:
I don't think you say you're sober or clean or use one of those catch phrases if you're smoking pot or drinking two beers on the weekend. (I do think you can be clean/sober if you're taking doctor prescribed benzos and taking them correctly)
However I think you can have your life back together and occasionally partake in mind altering substances even if you have a history of abuse. I think moderation is possible for some addicts but certainly not many.
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What the fuck is with people in this thread and the hate for cannabis? It's actually been shown to HELP some people who've had had addictions with other drugs. Google it.

Just because something is not for you doesn't mean it's not for everyone.

Ironic you hold a negative view of cannabis which is not addictive or toxic yet you think benzos are acceptable. By your (very backwards) logic two hits of a joint and someone's relapsed, taking powerful and addictive anti anxiety medication is fine though, because the doctor said so. Of course Doctors haven't ever been known to push dangerous drugs with nasty side effects ever, have they? Just SSRI's, methedone, Valium to name but a few.

Props to THECATINTHEHAT and others in this thread for speaking some fucking sense. A couple of people in this thread seem quite incapable of grasping the fact recovering from addiction is similar to the reasons why we all get addicted; it's completely subjective.
 
Whoa whoa, I never said I had a problem with weed, I was more joking about addicts who think the weekend doesn't count.
I think for some, smoking can aid in recovery especially if anxiety played a role in your addiction, if it's keeping your stress levels low it's, it's most likely helping. Hence why I take benzos myself.

I just don't think that the folks who have take ownership of the words "clean" and "sober" (and we know who they are) will ever consider the pot smokers or in some cases the people on maintenance therapy or psych drugs sober.
That's not neccesarily my belief, just the belief we encounter in the recovery community. I didn't make that clear in my first post.
 
If someone is trying to "chasing the dragon" with caffeine then chances are they're addicted.
 
This is my BIGGEST issue with the AA/NA programs I was exposed to in multiple rehabs.

There's no fucking difference between Heroin and Alcohol and Nicotine and Caffeine? Yeah, OKAY!!!

That thinking is what made a lot of my friends say "fuck it, I'm shooting dope." Including me! I thought having one drink was the same as doing dope. So, when I got caught drinking, I said hey - I relapsed, I'm picking up a white chip anyway... might as well shoot dope.

Yes, immature decision making on my part. But not all drugs are created the same.

And if you are just drinking fucking coffee dude... CONGRATULATIONS! I'm still on my RX Klonopin (well, technically not on it right now...) but it's not something I abuse or get high off. For that reason, I consider myself CLEAN but not SOBER.
 
If you're smoking pot, or using cannabis and other drugs like LSD, mushrooms, DMT, etc. while claiming to be clean and sober you've relapsed and are deluding yourself into believing that you are really sober or clean when you're not. Also for people who are addicts, using cannabis, LSD, mushrooms, etc. does eventually lead them back to their drug(s) that they were addicted to or they start using new drugs and become addicted to them.
 
I do know a girl who uses all kinds of psychedelics and dissociatives roughly once in few months just to stay out of other drugs which she have had problem. She never says she is totally sober but says that she is more sober by using those than she would be without using them. She has done that for years now and haven't touched at all to stimulants and opiates which were her biggest problem.

So alpha_centauri, everything isn't that black and white. I'll ask her to write more about this when she comes back from work as she might be interested to share her thoughts about that.
 
I am very similar MrRoot :)

I certainly didn't think I was the only one, but it is stil nice to hear of others with a similar idea. Perhaps that is the difference between a medicine and a purely recreational drug. It is a fine line, but with enough insight, it is an important distinction. Responsible drug use is possible. It is called medicine %)
 
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