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Am I having a healing crisis? WTF?

dognasher

dognasher

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
214
Location
Denver, Colorado
Hey ya'll.

I have been clean for two months off a heroin and cocaine habit. Yay! I am on Suboxone and responded well to it - but after being on it for a few weeks I got some crazy bug where I had symptoms similar to a sinus infection for a week, then I had horrible nausea, fever, and vomiting for another week, and this week I have had awful neck and back pain, and nausea. I've been to the ER, I've had acupuncture, dry needling, deep tissue massage, tried anti emetics like Zofran, you name it, I have done it. I forgot to mention I also have a MEAN case of PMS! Ha!

I am wondering if, since my body has recently detoxed off of a six year drug habit, I am having a healing crisis? I know they are common in detoxes due to your body getting rid of all the nasty gunk, but not sure if it applies to drug detoxes?

Basically I am tired, sore, not feeling foods too much, just unmotivated. It sucks but being on drugs sucked worse so if it's temporary I'll take it. I am just curious if I have been laid out by random illness or if this is related to detox.

Has anybody had anything similar? Thanks in advance!
 
:\ Hey DN...Idaknow, but from reading posts it sounds like the WD "flu-like" symptoms many describe. I'm sure the PMS pours salt in the wounds! My body thinks it's in PMS, though I've had no uterus/ovaries for 21 years. I still have crippling pain (pelvic/vaginal/rectal).

I've read your posts/threads. I want to offer my respect for you for your detox efforts. YAY! indeed. Listen to the distant rustling of POM-POMS, as we all CHEER you forward.

(((HUGS)))
 
What kind of stuff are you doing other than what you mentioned, not necessarily to deal directly with w/d, but in terms of your overall life? Do you have hobbies or other activities you're passionate about you can focus on?

In terms of the flu like symptoms, it's hard to tell. Honestly it doesn't seem too likely you're having a "healing crisis" caused by toxins or something, unless you have a fracking well in your backyard or have worked with hazardous/toxic chemicals. Sounds more like you may have a cold, or even the flu, and it's being compounded by PAWS/PMS.

Could also be a side effect of your Suboxone. Have you messed with your dose recently? If you feel comfortable doing so, going down to 2mg once or twice a day might make a big difference - especially if you don't believe you're in danger of relapsing right about now (as in that case you could argue a dose like 8mg is safer, given the difficulty of getting high with 8mg of buprenorphine in your system). Only other possibility I can think of is that you're having some negative delayed reaction to the naloxone in the Suboxone, but this seems very unlikely.

I'd say you've got a very good perspective, so keep doing what you're doing with that positive attitude. It truly is only temporary. My guess as to all this would be PAWS. Keep up the good work!

BTW, if you can find some good, healthy foods to eat (even if it's just fresh fruit, veggie and yogurt smoothies, those are enough I guess) I guarantee you'll feel much better. How are you sleeping? This can also fuck with your system and make you sick and nauseous. Are you exercising much?

At the end of the day, my bet is you're experiencing the beginning of cocaine (and probably heroin) PAWS, likely a bad case too.
 
Hey Dixie, you are so sweet! Bless your heart. I so appreciate your support. I don't think it's WD, I could be in denial, but...I've been off everything for two months. God knows I will never go through that hell again. And I started Suboxone after I had been clean for a few weeks so there's no chance of precipitated WD symptoms.

Toothpaste - FRACKING WELL! I love it. :)

I feel like it wouldn't be PAWS cause I was really feeling rad before, and I feel emotionally rad now! Just annoyed cause I am feeling oogy. And of COURSE since I am an addict and used to feeling like shit because of drugs, whenever I am sick I'm all like "Maybe it's THIS, maybe it's related to THIS..."

Most likely I have some sort of lingering stomach bug, but it's just WEIRD.

I did go down from 16 mg to 4-8 per day because 16 was making me poop bricks. But I don't feel any withdrawal. I am sleeping great, at least 8-9 hours a night.

IT'S SO WEIRD. I just want to know what it is.

I have heard some folks on Subs get a thing called Gastroparesis, which is where you don't digest food well due to lack of motility in your digestive system. I will be talking to my Sub doc about this at my appt today.

Thanks both of you for your suggestions...it's a MYSTERY. :) At least I'm not fucking high tho. That would be worse.

Any other people's experiences would be welcome, or suggestions.

Thanks!
 
Yourw clearly quite self aware, so I have a feelings you'll handle business just fine :]

I do not miss how I would shit maybe twice a week on bupe. Ugh oh boy was that painful. Once I had to actually use my finger to get the shit out, no joke. For some reason I've never had that problem with any other opio, not even higher doses of methadone.
 
DN...Still cheering you forward, doll baby!

=D Sorry, dawg...I had to giggle on that one. Salty humor is one of the "modalities" I invoke in my PM plan!

My guts are literally choked by disease and adhesions from multiple surgery. I don't think I'd ever drop a deuce if I don't take Miralax, Senna, etc. It's beyond nightmarish, as "twice per week" would be a miracle.

I'm currently taking Oxycodone after trials of MS Contin, Fetanyl (yep) didn't work out. Constipation is crippling, thus opiates to "ease" pain of disease/traumatic injury are causing MORE pain.

HELP!?!?! :!
 
Toothpaste - yeah, I never really got constipated on dope but when I started Subs holy hell! I basically alternate miralax, fiber, and when things get, uh, tough I break out the magnesium citrate. That gets things going! I have found it's all about prevention. I run too so I am prone to getting some major runner's shits. Haha!

I had dry needle therapy in my neck yesterday and the dude who did it was saying that sometimes after a big virus we can get stiff necks cause our chi or whatever gets blocked. Anybody had dry needling? Holy shit! They basically shove needles into the trigger points or bunched up muscle fibers and your muscles totally spazz out! I am sore today but I can certainly feel the difference.

I do believe that all the years of coke and heroin abuse plus using IV has wrecked my immune system, and now I am paying the piper. My periods are way worse. I get really tired easily. I just don't feel as healthy as I used to, BUT, I am about to feel healthier than ever because I have also quit smoking and I only drink maybe one glass of wine a week - that's 15 years of smoking gone and 20 years of moderate drinking! So I guess I'll just feel like shit till I feel better.

Oh yeah, I talked to my Sub doc about it today, and in typical Sub doc fashion, he had "not heard of anything like that" and that Suboxone can cause "Mild constipation". Damn, can't they give these docs a little more education in their five hour class or whatever they have to take to get certified? And I love my sub doc! He's really a great guy! They just don't know everything there is to know about the side effects so I am gonna make an appt with a gastro doc since I have Medicaid and am covered.


Sometimes I want to stop taking the Subs because I feel so "normal" and I am sick of not pooping and stuff, but then I realize that if I stop taking them I have a very good chance of relapsing and having cravings again so until the day I feel comfortable coming off them I guess it's just me and my Miralax!
 
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DixiChik said:
DN...Still cheering you forward, doll baby!

=D Sorry, dawg...I had to giggle on that one. Salty humor is one of the "modalities" I invoke in my PM plan!

My guts are literally choked by disease and adhesions from multiple surgery. I don't think I'd ever drop a deuce if I don't take Miralax, Senna, etc. It's beyond nightmarish, as "twice per week" would be a miracle.

I'm currently taking Oxycodone after trials of MS Contin, Fetanyl (yep) didn't work out. Constipation is crippling, thus opiates to "ease" pain of disease/traumatic injury are causing MORE pain.

HELP!?!?! :!
Click to expand...

I don't know DixiChik but have you tried starting a specific thread for this? Maybe there is a forum that is for chronic pain peeps? I have never had to do PM, I was just stupid enough to try and heal my psychic pain with heroin. Yay.
 
Oh, yea...I have Wiki-length threads and posts, desperately seeking relief of any kind.

I didn't intend to hijack your thread, though. I was just checking by to see how you're feeling and saw TD's funny comment on constipation.

Keep up the good work, lady! Glad you're feeling a little better...Have a good weekend! :)
 
Lol, yup there is nothing quite like having poop the consistency of granite. Seriously... :\

Gosh I totally forgot about my magnesium citrate days haha, good times.

Congrats on quitting smoking Doncaster! That's huge. I don't necessarily always recommend quitting smoking in early recovery, but they say people who are able to and continue without smoking and without using have a very very high success rate.

Keep up the fantastic work!
 
Hey Dixi - you're not hijacking! I don't care if you are, either. Maybe somebody will stumble across this and be able to offer you some help! My situation really isn't too dire - I was just curious because it's been an ODD illness. :)


Toothpaste - I actually didn't intend to quit, haha, but I have been so sick that the smell made me nauseous so I decided to keep rolling with it. My therapist actually said the same thing as you - dont try and quit in early recovery, but if it happens, the success rate for long term sobriety is better.
 
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I also found sub docs are totally clueless about opiate constipation. You should ask the gastro doctor about relistor as an emergency constipation drug. Its an IM shot of a naltrexone like drug that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. It basically puts the opiate receptors in your gut into withdrawal making you shit but since it doesn't cross into your brain your not overly uncomfortable. Or if that's to extreme I had some success with both amatiza and linzess.
 
Yea, Im pretty sure I've seen the GI/intestinal opioid antagonist you mentioned advertised on TV (granted the TV channel'a demographic was without a doubt the 65-95 year old crowd). Funny huh...

You know, the only times I've had any success, and was eventually successful, with quitting smoking was without any direct intention to actually quit. Odd how that works. Maybe it's the stress of thinking about total abstinence from cigs that makes it so much harder for me in that case. Kinda like how I do not react well at all to the actual thought of total abstinence regarding all drugs, yet when I don't force myself to pretend like total abstinence is my end game I end up remaining abstinent.

Human mind is a strange muscle. I mean penis. Vagina? No, I meant organ. Like, playing the organ organ organ. Organ orgasm? Yes! Orgasm orgasm. Yes, organasm. Organasm-a-licious.

But I digress ;)
 
Hey everyone! You all are too funny :D This thread caught my eye because a year ago I stopped subs after a week because I happened to get very sick at the same time. I was convinced it was the subs when it was just a really bad bladder infection. I associated this with the subs and swore there was no way I would try them again to get off pain pills. By May of this year I was back up to 180-200mg of vics/percs a day. Decided give subs a try again not because I wanted off the pills (feel totally different about that now) but because I'd basically run out of financial means to get them. Four months later and I've been doing great on the subs but about a month ago started feeling like I was in a crisis too. Full-blown depression with no clue why. I've been working with an AODA counselor and had never heard of PAWS. Realized this is probably what I'm going through. It's tough, but nice to know that my brain is actually healing and that's why I'm a freaked out mess right now!
Dognasher... what's this dry therapy needle treatment you had? Is it something like acupuncture? I've had chronic muscle knots in my neck and back for years. They suck!! And the pain from them doesn't make wanting to take pain pills any easier. I do a lot of stretching and go to the chiropractor, but these knots are unstoppable.
 
Hey amber - it is sort of like acupuncture but they put the needle right into where your muscle fibers are bunched up. It hurst like a mofo but then you do get some relief. I need to go back and do another round but I do believe it helped me.

I don't think this was the subs either, but it could be my body adjusting to them, or it could be some paws (although that doesnt seem likely as my receptors are being taken care of by the subs, even though subs are a partial agonist), or it could be that I have been floating on a drug cloud or sick as a dog for five years so I dont know what humans feel like anymore.
 
for content. At the thirty day, sixty day, and ninety day mark PAWS usually flares up a little. It will go away.

I used to call taking a suboxone shit having an avalanche. It was incredibly painful and it was like a stack of pebbles in the toilet.
 
PAWS is such a tricky beast too. I've experienced once, but most of my long term (6+ months off opioids) periods of abstinence, I don't experience it - at least as by any clinical standards. Individuals differ, of course, but there is also so much we can do in our lives to ward off having to experience it. Those that do have to experience it - say we're particularly sensitive to it or had a ridiculous life long habit - can still make an enormous dent in how sever it is and the way it impacts, or rather does not, their lives through medical and extramedical therapies/interventions.

Frankly, I'm not so sure I consider PAWS a legit science, certainly not in the way I do dependency, tolerance or addiction...
 
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