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Am-694 and smoking blends WARNING

So, can we agree that the concern over AM-694 metabolizing into fluoroacetate was overblown, and we can go back to our regularly scheduled "drugs that are actually worth taking" discussion?

If anything, it should be safer than the naphthoyl compounds for lack of a naphthalene ring.
 
But has it been proven that the naphthalene ring is causing health issues when talking about JWH substances? I dont know, that's why I'm asking
 
Swerlz said:
But has it been proven that the naphthalene ring is causing health issues when talking about JWH substances? I dont know, that's why I'm asking
Click to expand...

If it can be shown that a significant proportion of ingested napthoyl cannabinoids are excreted as the diol, it is almost certain that epoxide formation is occuring and so they are likely carcinogenic.

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(10)00160-X/abstract

From this it appears that epoxidation does in fact occur and so carcinogenicity is in fact a concern.

I can't access the article right now because ScienceDirect is down. However, it looks like taking the naphthoyl compounds is inadvisable.
 
so its safe (or safeish) to try this one then? i have a sample here and am considering giving it a go tonight
 
~not harmful if your useage is small such as using on a occasion

of course if your smoking cigs it wont matter anyway
 
kken said:
~not harmful if your useage is small such as using on a occasion

of course if your smoking cigs it wont matter anyway
Click to expand...

oh im a heavy smoker, its more the toxicity and permanent cb1 receptor damage ive been reading about thats a bit of a worry to me, its not something im going to be doing regularly at all (infact i only ordered 50mg, but they sent me 500mg! dont think ill be getting through all that)
 
The toxicity fears were based on floroacetate as a metabolite (which wouldn't be formed anyway, and even if it was, it would take a ridiculous level of use to reach dangerous levels).

The other worry about permanent binding to CB receptors was based on the absurdly high binding affinity.
I have to say, I find AM-694 to be really weak. I have a low cannabinoid tolerance, and I smoke a blend I made at 15 wt%.
I cannot reconcile it's subjective potency with it's reported binding affinity, particularly in light of the fact that in other cannabinoids, there is a general correlation between binding affinity and potency.
 
The toxicity fears were based on floroacetate as a metabolite (which wouldn't be formed anyway, and even if it was, it would take a ridiculous level of use to reach dangerous levels).

The other worry about permanent binding to CB receptors was based on the absurdly high binding affinity.
I have to say, I find AM-694 to be really weak. I have a low cannabinoid tolerance, and I smoke a blend I made at 15 wt%.
I cannot reconcile it's subjective potency with it's reported binding affinity, particularly in light of the fact that in other cannabinoids, there is a general correlation between binding affinity and potency, yet this supposedly has an affinity of 0.08nM, while JWH-018 has an affinity of ~9nM - three orders of magnitude more powerful - yet AM-694 is around half the potency. Something is wrong with that number! I also retract my earlier comments about it appearing to have a low ceiling (as would be expected if it was a weak partial agonist). Aggressive smoking of high strength blends allows one to get effects of comparable strength to cannabis or other synthetics.
 
TheAzo said:
The toxicity fears were based on floroacetate as a metabolite (which wouldn't be formed anyway, and even if it was, it would take a ridiculous level of use to reach dangerous levels).
Click to expand...

the potential concern about fluoroacetate was flagged by me because, if fluoroacetate was formed it could be formed in the brain with the cannabinoid acting as a delivery agent to get it inside the brain, normally fluoroacetate salts do not make it into the brain. therefore it was
worth discussing. We actually don't know what the metabolites are because we don't know what is dealkylating the indole nitrogen, people have assumed it generates fluoropentanal or an equivalent and then a 2 carbon loss series.

you might also want to check whether the AM-694 compound in circulation is in fact the correct compound. Several analysis suggest that vendors have been substituting another non fluoro cannabinoid.

v
 
vecktor said:
the potential concern about fluoroacetate was flagged by me because, if fluoroacetate was formed it could be formed in the brain with the cannabinoid acting as a delivery agent to get it inside the brain, normally fluoroacetate salts do not make it into the brain. therefore it was
worth discussing. We actually don't know what the metabolites are because we don't know what is dealkylating the indole nitrogen, people have assumed it generates fluoropentanal or an equivalent and then a 2 carbon loss series.

you might also want to check whether the AM-694 compound in circulation is in fact the correct compound. Several analysis suggest that vendors have been substituting another non fluoro cannabinoid.

v
Click to expand...

This is true - but that's certainly the most plausible degradation mechanism.

Also, good point about the AM-694 potentially not being real. There was a wholesaler offering the non-florinated compound last summer. Maybe that would be significantly weaker; certainly the flourine on the alkyl chain increases potency markedly (by a factor of ~10 in the case of JWH-018 -> AM-2201). I hope the AM-694 is legit, and hence the binding numbers reported likely wrong, because god help us if someone then started supplying the real 694...
 
atara said:
If it can be shown that a significant proportion of ingested napthoyl cannabinoids are excreted as the diol, it is almost certain that epoxide formation is occuring and so they are likely carcinogenic.

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(10)00160-X/abstract

From this it appears that epoxidation does in fact occur and so carcinogenicity is in fact a concern.

I can't access the article right now because ScienceDirect is down. However, it looks like taking the naphthoyl compounds is inadvisable.
Click to expand...
Does this mean that the phenylacetyl and the benzoyl compounds are safer? or are they likely to be metabolized to diols too... I am a little confused because the hydroxyls are not attaching to the napthoyl ring, but to the indole ring and the alkyl side chain.
 
How long is the duration when smoked? I sometimes indulge in a "mystery blend," but its effects begin to diminish after 30 minutes and are entirely gone after 60. This thread has got me all paranoid though.
 
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