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ALTERNATIVE THEORIES V: The Build-a-bear Workshop

Admittedly a complete guess.. but it still stands true that thousands of people QUALIFIED in the fields required to make any conclusions of the events study and have studied what happened.. and they all come up with the same conclusion.. bar a handful of people (i've seen architects and engineers blah blah and a lot of them have missed something or are just plain wrong.. even i noticed a few of their claims were flawed)..
 
Go to New York and ask around. The reason you can't find more eye witnesses for the planes hitting is because conspiracy theorists don't show it.. and it's conspiracy theorists that make the most videos, websites and when people look into 9/11 they're mostly looking for the conspiracy theories surrounding it. Most of the quotes and videos are taken completely out of context. They are montages of the parts of the story conspiracy theorists are advertising.
Well, most of the mainstream news channels don't show them either. They just shoved Stanley Praimnath down my throat hundreds of thousands of times.

Unrecognisable to US from PHOTOS.. There are some recognisable parts even to us.. and proof the plane hit the building? Eye witness accounts, the damage it caused, the missing plane, the missing people, the wreckage found, the phone calls from the planes, etc etc..
There are also reports such as with Flight 93 of it landing in Ohio at an evacuated airport. I cannot find any solid evidence of anything. Lots of this shit could easily be faked, such as those phone calls. Nothing too solid there to indicate anything. Considering all the hundreds of other holes in the official theory, I'm leaning towards calling bullshit on this too.

I suppose your very educated on what happens when a plane flies into a sky scraper.
Dude, it's not fucking rocket science, and even rocket science isn't that fucking hard to understand.


That was a solid concrete block.. the twin towers were mostly AIR.
Yes, they were buildings made of AIR. Forget those massive steel columns. Plastic tipped hollow airplanes eat steel fucking columns for breakfast! Yet, they get atomized at two very special crash sites on 9/11 - the pentagon and shanksville.

You are nothing but a mess of contradictions and hypocrisy rickola. You scorn me for "anecdotal" evidence when you yourself pile even shittier "anecdotal" evidence on me and your supposed millions of "eyewitnesses" who "don't feel a need to prove themselves.

I'll concede that nothing is very clear with the Pentagon, but considering this:
Hanjour began making cross-country flights in August to test security, and tried to rent a plane from Freeway Airport in Maryland; though he was declined after exhibiting difficulty controlling and landing a single-engine Cessna 172.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hani_Hanjour

That's pretty fucking bad. I'm pretty amazed how he suddenly became super pilot of Islamic Vengeance and did a perfect maneuver right into the pentagon when he couldn't even get hired as a flight attendant due to shitty grades in school. He suddenly had a stroke of genius. He just hopped right into that 757 cockpit amid a high tension situation like having recently hijacked it and had a sudden transformation from a total fuck-up to a master pilot. Yeah, whatever...and I'm the Queen of Fucking England.

This and ten thousand other holes and "odd" occurences, contradictions, etc. combined with a lack of any clear evidence to support anything at all the official story says, I'm gonna play it safe and call TOTAL BULLSHIT on it!

You watch live video compositing everytime you turn on the news. Brian Williams sits in front of a green screen and has a visual display composited in behind him. CNN Headline News composits tickers across the screen in real time. Not that fucking amazing. Editing in audio in real time is even easier. There's nothing solid except for the amount of bullshit in your arguments, rickola and everyone else who doubts what really happened.
 
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There are also reports such as with Flight 93 of it landing in Ohio at an evacuated airport. I cannot find any solid evidence of anything. Lots of this shit could easily be faked, such as those phone calls. Nothing too solid there to indicate anything. Considering all the hundreds of other holes in the official theory, I'm leaning towards calling bullshit on this too.

I'd like to see these reports of the plane landing in ohio. could have been faked! could have been faked. There is more evidence to say they were not faked. Faked how? Voice morphing?

Dude, it's not fucking rocket science, and even rocket science isn't that fucking hard to understand.

No it's not rocket science. Its structural engineering and physics. Like i said. Thousands of qualified people have studied it and come to the same conclusion, bar a select few.

Yes, they were buildings made of AIR. Forget those massive steel columns. Plastic tipped hollow airplanes eat steel fucking columns for breakfast! Yet, they get atomized at two very special crash sites on 9/11 - the pentagon and shanksville.

There's a good chance that the nose missed the steel columns.. and even if it didn't.. apply enough force from something weak and it can break something stronger than itself.

You are nothing but a mess of contradictions and hypocrisy rickola. You scorn me for "anecdotal" evidence when you yourself pile even shittier "anecdotal" evidence on me and your supposed millions of "eyewitnesses" who "don't feel a need to prove themselves.

Fighting fire with fire. Like i said I've spoken to people that saw the plane hit the world trade centre.. and no they are not spies, reporters, military or anything to do with the government.. they were civilians. There are also a lot of reports of people that saw the planes hidden within documentaries.. but of course the montages created by conspiracy theorists aren't going to include them. And no I'm not going to find them for you.

I'll concede that nothing is very clear with the Pentagon, but considering this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hani_Hanjour

So there is evidence he had training to be a pilot, he was becoming increasingly involved in islamic extremism and had flown around the country to study security? He had difficulty landing a cessna.. He still managed it.. And forgive me if I'm wrong but he didn't exactly land Flight 77 too well either..

Like i said, though. I never believed the official story. It wouldn't surprise me if he was never on flight 77 but there is more evidence to say he was that to say he wasn't. The maneuver he pulled wasn't even that great.. he had a long time to line it up. Like i said before I've seen complete amateurs with no flying experience or knowledge take control of a small plane with ease.. The pilot then tells them it'd actually be easier to do in a bigger plane.

That's pretty fucking bad. I'm pretty amazed how he suddenly became super pilot of Islamic Vengeance and did a perfect maneuver right into the pentagon when he couldn't even get hired as a flight attendant due to shitty grades in school. He suddenly had a stroke of genius. He just hopped right into that 757 cockpit amid a high tension situation like having recently hijacked it and had a sudden transformation from a total fuck-up to a master pilot. Yeah, whatever...and I'm the Queen of Fucking England.

Master pilot? Like i just said.. he had quite a lot of training at flight school.. and that's the training we know about.. All he had to do was turn the plane and line it up.. No landing required. People with little to no experience have done more impressive things on planes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3019035...er-lands-plane-after-pilot-dies/#.UKYmYY0aO4o

http://travel.aol.co.uk/2011/05/27/passenger-lands-plane-after-pilot-becomes-ill/

This and ten thousand other holes and "odd" occurences, contradictions, etc. combined with any clear evidence to support anything at all the official story says, I'm gonna play it safe and call TOTAL BULLSHIT on it!

Again.. I never believed the official story.. You are right.. there are holes.. but there are just as many if not MORE in most of the conspiracy theories.. The no plane theory being one of the biggest.

You watch live video compositing everytime you turn on the news. Brian Williams sits in front of a green screen and has a visual display composited in behind him. CNN Headline News composits tickers across the screen in real time. Not that fucking amazing. Editing in audio in real time is even easier. There's nothing solid except for the amount of bullshit in your arguments, rickola and everyone else who doubts what really happened.

Yes.. and he is aware that he is sitting in front of a green screen.. while sitting in a news room.. with nobody else around but the crew.. hardly the same thing as faking 2 plane crashes in the middle of one of the busiest cities in the world.

I admit the Key brought up a few dodgy things.. like the edited audio on the video where the mans (rather unemotional) voice is added where he says "oh my god a plane just hit the building" or something.. but most of it is complete crap by someone who seemingly knows nothing about physics and is promoting the could have bullshit.

So about the could have been faked, not enough evidence. What would you consider to be enough evidence to validate a claim?

And excuse me.. but i think you missed a lot of my points.
 
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first article link White had logged about 150 hours recently flying a single-engine Cessna 172 but had no experience flying the faster, larger King Air.

150 hours is a pretty good amount of experience. And, he apparently wasn't a total dumbass like this supposed Hani Hanjour. If he can't even be considered smart enought to serve cocktails to assholes on flights, how the fuck did he even find Washington D.C.? Your link is not convincing.

from second article link With his help, the woman eventually flipped on the autopilot function, though she already had directions for the emergency parachute in her lap, just in case.

At one point, the plane swerved away from its emergency landing route and headed toward the high terrain of the San Juan mountains in southwestern Colorado. Rohrer told the woman to turn away from the mountains.

Eventually the plane headed toward safer, lower terrain and began dropping in elevation. The woman said her husband was becoming more lucid.

The husband came on the radio and indicated he would continue his course to Colorado Springs. But Rohrer warned that, to do that, he would have to climb to 17,000 feet and risk becoming hypoxic again.
She didn't do anything. She just flipped on autopilot and kept it from going into the mountains while being guided by a man on the radio until her husband woke up.

If a Maryland plane rental outfit thought Hani was unfit days before 9/11/01 to rent an aircraft then there's no way he could have figured this shit out. They fucked up bad in there lie because at 500mph, it is not easy to line something up and hover the ground and go straight in without being pretty good. I've been in single engine cessnas, and if he wasn't good enough to rent one, then I'm pretty sure he couldn't have done what the official story says he did.

From what I know from flying in smaller planes and hundreds of hours playin flight simulators, I could direct myself and land a single engine cessna, and I admit, it wouldn't be with finesse. I'd be in for a rough ride. The only chance in hell you could pilot a 757 without prior experience is to have someone who is very experienced guide you on a radio or with you in the cockpit. If Hani sucked too bad to rent a single engine and much simpler to operate cessna days before one of the greatest flying stunts ever pulled off, I really don't fucking see how he fucking had this revelation about flying.

rickolaAnd excuse me.. but i think you missed a lot of my points.
I think you're absolutely insane man.
 
Was waiting for the personal insults.. Was practically cyber bullied until banned on a truthers movement forum for being a "troll"..

Who says he was hovering just above the ground when he lined it up? It's more likely he lined it up using land marks and then slowly decreased in altitude..

But anyway.. So you are confident you could land a cessna from playing flight simulators? Or am i missing something.. are you a pilot?

What part of his piloting skills do you find "impossible"?

He had TONS of flight training, a lot of which by professionals and, again, that's the stuff we know about..

What we know about him:

He had a lot of flight training, real life and simulated.
He "turned his attention toward religious texts and cassette tapes of militant Islamic preachers."
He tried to hire a plane in america just before the attacks.
He flew around america studying security.
He is now missing.

Am i missing something here? Your claim is based on an extreme assumption, is it not?

What we know about the pentagon crash:

Plane wreckage found, including personal items of passengers.
Plane has never been seen since.
Passengers have never been seen since.
Audio recording between pilot and control room.
Audio recordings of passengers to loved ones.
Over a hundred witnesses saw it.
The damage to the pylons are consistent with a Boeing 757-223.
The damage to the pentagon is consistent with a Boeing 757-223.

.. There's probably more..
 
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this is a slide from a presentation given to congressmen at the Georgia Capitol earlier this week:

ag21.jpg


http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/11/16/agenda-21-the-lunacy-infiltrating-state-leaders/
 
Dude, it's not fucking rocket science, and
even rocket science isn't that fucking hard
to understand.

Well, the part about the airplane is aerospace engineering, which is also what rocket science is, and a jet propulsion uses the same basic principle as rockets. (a stream of high velocity gas)
 
So, I hate to bring up a conspiracy theory that could be somewhat plausible, but lets examine the following:

1. Iran is facing the possibility of a strike by Israel over their nuclear program.
2. An Israel who is currently engaged by another, closer threat is less likely to focus on Iran.
3. Iran has ties to militants in the Palestinian territories.
4. The militants in the Palestinian territories, being batshit crazy, can be relied upon to probably quickly use any rockets supplied to them.
5. Israel can usually be relied on to counter with additional violence...
6. And Israeli/Palestinian conflict could quickly escalate, diverting Israel's attention from Iran.

Not saying that's the case, but it isn't totally in the realm of fantasy.
 
Straight from the George Lucas school of military strategy, which only has one subject: diversion
 
Was waiting for the personal insults.. Was practically cyber bullied until banned on a truthers movement forum for being a "troll"..

Who says he was hovering just above the ground when he lined it up? It's more likely he lined it up using land marks and then slowly decreased in altitude..

It's not like driving a car buddy. Lining up and navigating as high up in the sky moving 500mph is a bit tricky. Apparently Hani wasn't any good at doing either in an airplane that flies about 150max and at lower altitudes.

But anyway.. So you are confident you could land a cessna from playing flight simulators? Or am i missing something.. are you a pilot?
Feel "confident" about it, no I don't. I've had the pleasure of riding in two seaters many times where a set of controls are available in both seats. I've had my friends who piloted them explain everything to me many times and even let me control the aircraft in midair. I have had an interest in it, so I pay good attention. Unlike Hani Hanjour, I was a straight A student - any airline would hire me to serve drinks. Would I "feel good" about having to land? No way, but I know that I'm not going to sit in a cockpit and cry and panic if something went wrong with the pilot! I know how to operate the radio, and under guidance from someone on the ground, I would try my best to get the plane on the ground in and get the pilot and I out safely.
What part of his piloting skills do you find "impossible"?
If he wasn't even good enough to control and land a single engine Cessna days before his "master stunt," I find it highly unlikely he could navigate and direct a plane at a perfect horizontal angle into the Pentagon without dropping speed below 500mph. It is much easier to line up with something like a runway when you are not going very fast.
He had TONS of flight training, a lot of which by professionals and, again, that's the stuff we know about..
There are people who have spent TONS of time driving a car but can't drive worth a shit. Some people take their driver's test 25 times before they get a license, and even then...
Hani Hanjour sounds like one of those people who just couldn't get the hang of anything.
What we know about him:

He "turned his attention toward religious texts and cassette tapes of militant Islamic preachers."
You sound like an Islamophobe rickola.
He tried to hire a plane in america just before the attacks.
Oh and you won't mention why he "tried" but couldn't? The person in charge of renting didn't think he could handle the single engine cessna they flew at all and denied him the privilege of renting one of their planes. Yes, Hani sucked at it that fucking bad...
He flew around america studying security.
He flew as a passenger. Well, they just hopped on with lowly boxcutters...all that time and money wasted "testing security" to do that?

He is now missing.
Who knows, that doesn't mean he did 9/11.
 
Are you concluding that the force of a hurricane on a small area of the building is greater than the force of an airplane crashing into the building?

Regardless, the building was not aerodynamic and was able to resist lateral wind loads. Well Mr. Escher, if only a "small area" was impacted, then how the fuck did the entire fucking thing fucking fall apart into dust in about an hour afterwards?

They didn't use cast iron or bricks for a reason when buiding that high. They like steel because it takes it both ways, and trust me, that shit was secured in the building well. I don't know how a plane effortless made it through the stee reinforced concrete floors so easily either. That's a lot of strong material to glide straight through without showing any signs of resistance or compression to the aircraft.
 
So, I hate to bring up a conspiracy theory that could be somewhat plausible, but lets examine the following:

1. Iran is facing the possibility of a strike by Israel over their nuclear program.
2. An Israel who is currently engaged by another, closer threat is less likely to focus on Iran.
3. Iran has ties to militants in the Palestinian territories.
4. The militants in the Palestinian territories, being batshit crazy, can be relied upon to probably quickly use any rockets supplied to them.
5. Israel can usually be relied on to counter with additional violence...
6. And Israeli/Palestinian conflict could quickly escalate, diverting Israel's attention from Iran.

Not saying that's the case, but it isn't totally in the realm of fantasy.

Please don't put garbage like this on this forum. This is for real conspiracy talk.
 
Feel "confident" about it, no I don't. I've had the pleasure of riding in two seaters many times where a set of controls are available in both seats. I've had my friends who piloted them explain everything to me many times and even let me control the aircraft in midair. I have had an interest in it, so I pay good attention. Unlike Hani Hanjour, I was a straight A student - any airline would hire me to serve drinks. Would I "feel good" about having to land? No way, but I know that I'm not going to sit in a cockpit and cry and panic if something went wrong with the pilot! I know how to operate the radio, and under guidance from someone on the ground, I would try my best to get the plane on the ground in and get the pilot and I out safely.

Not too hard to fly, really, are they? Now imagine you didn't have to land the plane.. just point it at the run way and your golden.

If he wasn't even good enough to control and land a single engine Cessna days before his "master stunt," I find it highly unlikely he could navigate and direct a plane at a perfect horizontal angle into the Pentagon without dropping speed below 500mph. It is much easier to line up with something like a runway when you are not going very fast.

How do we know he didn't drop the speed below 500mph? I've heard eye witness reports that say he had sped up just before the crash. Also, bare in mind he may have actually missed the part of the building he was aiming for? So are you telling me you couldn't get a plane.. look out your window at a rather large building and then slowly point your nose towards it.. and keep it there? Again.. I've heard pilots say that the boeing would have actually been easier to fly than a smaller plane.

There are people who have spent TONS of time driving a car but can't drive worth a shit. Some people take their driver's test 25 times before they get a license, and even then...

You also get people who dropped out of school or got shitty grades but know more than their teacher on the subject.. and do we have a day by day record of where he was at all times? Who knows what kind of training he could have had. You know.. maybe it was a near impossible feat for him to pull off.. maybe he just got lucky?

You sound like an Islamophobe rickola.

lolwut? Yeah ok mate. I point out that a man accused of a terrorist attack for religious reasons was said to have turned his attention toward religious texts and cassette tapes of militant Islamic preachers. by his BROTHER. Yah I'm racist for pointing that out.

Oh and you won't mention why he "tried" but couldn't? The person in charge of renting didn't think he could handle the single engine cessna they flew at all and denied him the privilege of renting one of their planes. Yes, Hani sucked at it that fucking bad...

Maybe they were in fact islamaphobes and didn't want a muslim flying one of their planes. You are ignoring the fact that Hani managed to fly AND land a cessna.. According to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Osama bin Laden or Mohammed Atef identified Hanjour at an Afghanistan training camp as a trained pilot and selected him to participate in the September 11 attacks.

This is a quote from the chief instructor where he was refused a plane:
Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said.

There's also.. "Then hijackers set the flight's autopilot heading for Washington, D.C."

He flew as a passenger. Well, they just hopped on with lowly boxcutters...all that time and money wasted "testing security" to do that?

So what are you saying? He flew around for fun? .. Seems like his testing the security worked..


Who knows, that doesn't mean he did 9/11.

You are ignoring SOOO many things here..

He had training as a pilot.. over 10 years worth, his brother admitted he started getting into some extreme islamic tapes, he was in the area before the attack, he borded flight 77 he tried renting a plane just before the attack..

Do these things not seem to point to.. yeah.. it was probably him that crashed the plane into the pentagon.
 
I'm gonna go ahead and post this again in bold for you..

This is a quote from the chief instructor where he was refused a plane:
Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said.

This man flew with him in a plane days before the attack. He's also a trained pilot. He seems to think, without a doubt, that Hani could have flown that plane into the pentagon.
 
No, I don't find it convincing at all, and yes, I do think you are an Islamophobe. The question is, how does Islam frighten you to the point of such irrationality? You will not give Hani the benefit of a very reasonable doubt likely because you have a severe amount of "racial steam" built up. 70% of whites in America voted against their economic interests in the last presidential election because of racism. I think you are pushing this "Arab job" theory not because it makes sense, but because you have a problem inside of you.

If what you were saying had any truth to it, there would be no doubts. I can't honestly believe that the only camera on the pentagon was a shitty parking garage camera that shows no clear picture of an airplane. You expect me to believe that the world's top military installation has shitty security cameras that couldn't actually identify anything? Convenience stores had better security cameras than the Pentagon? I think not.

And about being totally "distracted" with some "military exercise?"
Bullshit. These "jokers" flew around for an hour and were never intercepted after hijacking a plane of course? Fucking whatever. Exercise day or not, under no circumstances would US air defenses have trouble intercepting these aircraft and since when was the gov't so noble as to let a plane crash deliberately into the Pentagon when it is clear that shooting it down would be of primary security interests. It's not like they were going to save anybody's life on boards by letting it crash into the building.

The reason why those hard working men and women of the US air defenses were so fucking confused that day is because they could not find something that wasn't actually in the sky flying around.
 
Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said.
Like this?
pentcrash.jpg

(computer model representation)

I just don't find that convincing at all...
 
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