Benzos Alprazolam vs. Clonazepam

[supersonic89]

Hi folks.

Is alprazolam really as strong and euphoric as people say?

I took it when I had no tolerance to benzos and 1-2 mg. of alprazolam were enough to knock me out and I didn't notice any euphoria. Excellent drug for insomnia imo. Now I switched to clonazepam, which I take sporadically, and 1-2 mg. it don't knock me out like alprazolam. Also, for some reason I find it much better for anxiety taken sublingually and very subtle euphoria sometimes.

What bothers me the most is that in my country the maximum dose of alprazolam sold in drugstores or pharmacies is 1 mg, and in most of the world the maximum dose is 2 mg. What can be caused this?

 

[supersonic89]

It's no secret that I take 1mg or 2mg Alprazolam per day most days (this since around April this year). Taken mostly very late afternoon/early evening. Mainly for sleep. But there's a residual effect when you wake up in the morning i.e. a benzo. hangover (like right now this morning) (usually lasts about an hour or so but definitely still effective throughout most of But take it from someone who knows: don't see these things as being recreational drugs. You'll regret it I promise you. Tolerance builds quick. And if used for recreation: you WILL start increasing dosage VERY quickly in order to get the same effect (which I don't consider a high at all but that's just me). Coming off long term and high use dosages of Benzodiazepines will make your Tramadol withdrawal seem like child's play (based on what I've read about Tramadol withdrawal anyway and what I KNOW to be withdrawal and physical dependence insofar as Alprazolam is concerned).

Nah, I'm really scared of benzos. This is why I take clonazepam 2-3 times a week. And I've been up to 5 days without withdrawal symptoms. And I agree with you, that they have remarkable therapeutic use.

But I wonder why in my country they are so stupid to sell 2mg clonazepam and not alprazolam of the same strength? haahahaha or is it that alprazolam has a more hypnotic use than clonazepam? My country is so fucking weird. Loperamide is sold in blisters with 6 pills WTF?!

 

[supersonic89]

I suppose you're the LAST person to tell this to (although I suspect that you already know) i.e. Loperamide, in large quantities, gets you high (apparently). Only reason I know this little nugget of useless information, ironically, is because I was trying to find that paper that I told you about the other day (the study about addicts going through their shit for pill casings) (but couldn't find the darn thing) (was just going to post on your piss thread for fun)! Found some other arbitrary links but not what I was looking for. The irony though: opioids STOP you from shitting!

I dunno. I'm too old now or I missed something in life i.e. imagine taking shit pills to get high!

Why would I be the last person? So fucked up am I? Hahahaha. I did know about loperamide and I wouldn't use it to get high, since apparently monstrous amounts are needed (something like 50 pills or more hahaha). I am most intrigued by its use during opioid withdrawal, but I think large amounts are needed as well. As I told you, in Chile they come in boxes with 6 pills, so I would need at least 10 boxes to get something semi-dhecent hig. Imagine the face of the pharmacist when I ask him 10 boxes of Loperamide hahahaha. Not to mention, the gross side effects of this drug.

If it were about choosing the lesser evil, I think I would choose Yellow Fire.

PS. Elsewhere, they told me that alcoholics ate their vomit or something to get drunk again. Holy shit!

 

[supersonic89]

Dose for dose (strength for strength) Alprazolam and Clonazepam are roughly equivalent. There is a big difference between their half-lives however i.e. Alprazolam's half-life is anywhere between 6-12 hours whereas Clonazepam's half-life is anywhere between 12-60 hours (depends again on how you metabolize the stuff). Alprazolam mainly treats anxiety but also has an anti-depressant quality. Clonazepam treats anxiety and is also an anticonvulsant. It can also be used to treat seizures. A SIDE EFFECT of both is drowsiness.

OKAY. So 2 mg of alprazolam = 2 mg of clonazepam.

Is there any other country in the world where 2 mg alprazolam is not available? Shit. Apparently this shitty country knew before everyone of the problem that Xanax could cause.

Speaking of Xanax, in October when I had taken about 2 grams of tramadol (mother of God!!) I started to feel a bit weird and feared the worst (seizures), so I put 1 mg of alprazolam under my tongue and it worked wonderfully (despite not having reputation as an anticonvulsant). But, the taste was HORRIBLE, for a moment I thought my pills were out of date because of how horrible they taste.

 

[4meSM]

Alprazolam has bad stigma because it's the most commonly abused benzo (or it was at one time). That might not even be completely true but people see it that way. A similar thing happened to flunitrazepam (rohypnol/roofies).

Alprazolam is usually more heavily restricted which might be one of the reasons why 2mg bars aren't available, health departments think it's too easily abusable. IIRC alprazolam isn't even prescribed anymore in some places, I think that's the case in the UK for example (unless you use private doctors).

You'll never hear rappers bragging about taking 2mg of klonopin because, when it comes to benzos, rectangular pills have the highest hype-factor and round pills are simply inferior and lack originality.

 

[Bomb319]

I suppose you're the LAST person to tell this to (although I suspect that you already know) i.e. Loperamide, in large quantities, gets you high (apparently). Only reason I know this little nugget of useless information, ironically, is because I was trying to find that paper that I told you about the other day (the study about addicts going through their shit for pill casings) (but couldn't find the darn thing) (was just going to post on your piss thread for fun)! Found some other arbitrary links but not what I was looking for. The irony though: opioids STOP you from shitting!

I dunno. I'm too old now or I missed something in life i.e. imagine taking shit pills to get high!

At least in my experience, this is very much a half-truth. Imodium does indeed take away some of the worst withdrawal symptoms such as exce3ssive sweating and chills, however this requires taking a dangerous amount of it, and I can NOT in good conscience recommend doing this to anybody! I'm only relating my own personal experiences here.

Anyway, yes, it did (and does) take away most withdrawal symptoms, but not all of them. Sneezing and anxiety are good examples of this, although psychologically speaking, my anxiety DOES often lower significantly after taking Loperamide simply because the other withdrawal symptoms are held for the time being.

However, I have also never, EVER gotten high or even felt any mildly pleasant effect from Imodium regardless of the dose. In fact, the more I take, the worse I feel; there IS a somewhat opioid like feeling at these high doses (above 100 mg for me), but NEVER in a good way. It's almost like a combination of the LEAST pleasant typical opioid effects but without withdrawal. Taking this dose and greater is, again, HIGHLY dangerous and I swear to God that doing so is pointless anyway, at least for me. Please be careful and let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[RDP89]

Hi folks.

Is alprazolam really as strong and euphoric as people say?

I took it when I had no tolerance to benzos and 1-2 mg. of alprazolam were enough to knock me out and I didn't notice any euphoria. Excellent drug for insomnia imo. Now I switched to clonazepam, which I take sporadically, and 1-2 mg. it don't knock me out like alprazolam. Also, for some reason I find it much better for anxiety taken sublingually and very subtle euphoria sometimes.

What bothers me the most is that in my country the maximum dose of alprazolam sold in drugstores or pharmacies is 1 mg, and in most of the world the maximum dose is 2 mg. What can be caused this?

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind what country are you in?

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

Hi folks.

Is alprazolam really as strong and euphoric as people say?

I took it when I had no tolerance to benzos and 1-2 mg. of alprazolam were enough to knock me out and I didn't notice any euphoria. Excellent drug for insomnia imo. Now I switched to clonazepam, which I take sporadically, and 1-2 mg. it don't knock me out like alprazolam. Also, for some reason I find it much better for anxiety taken sublingually and very subtle euphoria sometimes.

What bothers me the most is that in my country the maximum dose of alprazolam sold in drugstores or pharmacies is 1 mg, and in most of the world the maximum dose is 2 mg. What can be caused this?

I liked Xanax the best.

 

[supersonic89]

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind what country are you in?

I'm from Chile. South America. I find it rare that there is no 2mg alprazolam. but apparently it is common in other countries as well. In addition, one of the most prescribed benzodiazepines is clotiazepam. Of which there is very little information.

I liked Xanax the best.

Really John? I found it too hypnotic and sedative. I experimented with up to 4-5 mg. and I didn't feel any euphoria, just a lot of sleep and want to go to bed hahaha. At least with clonazepam at the same dose, I don't feel sleepy and the anxiolysis lasts much longer. Sublingual the effect don't take as long as people think.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

I'm from Chile. South America. I find it rare that there is no 2mg alprazolam. but apparently it is common in other countries as well. In addition, one of the most prescribed benzodiazepines is clotiazepam. Of which there is very little information.




Really John? I found it too hypnotic and sedative. I experimented with up to 4-5 mg. and I didn't feel any euphoria, just a lot of sleep and want to go to bed hahaha. At least with clonazepam at the same dose, I don't feel sleepy and the anxiolysis lasts much longer. Sublingual the effect don't take as long as people think.

Yeah I preferred Xanax, but I’m on klonopin now, which is also good.

 

[Bomb319]

Hello.

Pleasure to make your acquaintance (haven't seen you around before) (well I've not been involved on a thread that you've posted on anyway).

Nice post. And glad you posted it. I have a bad habit of joking about things sometimes and sometimes it's not appropriate (as is the case here).

Only reason I posted about shit pills making you high is because there's a bit of a standing joke between @supersonic89 and myself i.e. I found a medical paper a while back (that I cannot seem to find again) where a clinical study had been done on the dangers of addicts going through their own faeces looking for pill casings that may still contain some left over narcotics e.g. Tramadol ER that's passed through the system. That's when I found a whole bunch of links re: Loperamide (Imodium).

But I just thought about it after seeing your post (sorry: this not really being a topic high up on my agenda I assure you so didn't think much when posting my post on the topic): Loperamide (Imodium) is to STOP you from shitting so you are quite correct in saying that my post is incorrect (if that's what you were referring to by the use of your word "half-truth"). Matter of fact: I would imagine the LAST thing an opioid addict needs is something to STOP them from shitting! Only just occurred to me that Loperamide (Imodium) is the polar opposite of a laxative. Sorry about that.

That actual irony, from what I read, is that opioid addicts getting "backed up" due them having problems shitting comes with its own dangers (aside from whatever opioid in question). So I don't see taking Loperamide (Imodium) improving matters. But as you say (and from what I read) it CAN help with withdrawal symptoms but comes with dangers of its own.

Anyway. Good catch and nice post. You have the floor on this one (I'm not a user at all and I shit regular as clockwork so I'm the last person to be giving input or advice on this!

Thanks a lot, I appreciate that! It's nice to meet you too Actually, I only started making a few posts on BL again within the past week or so, which is why you wouldn't have seen me! I posted somewhat regularly several years ago, but the combination of being on methadone for so long now (thereby not really needing to discuss opiates as much), and the slight worry I've had that frequenting the boards again too often might stir up some long-settled cravings, has made me take a lengthy hiatus.

First, please know that I was absolutely NOT attacking your post or opinion when I used the term "half-truth". I was actually referring to the very widespread belief that Imodium provides an actual high, since this is VERY different from simply easing a few withdrawal symptoms! I'm quite well-versed on Imodium and its purported benefits, detriments and side-effects because I used it quite frequently back in the day when I went through worse and more frequent withdrawals than I do on the methadone. That said, I STILL DO use it only occasionally when I feel quite sick and very anxious relatively early after my last dose and have awhile to wait before another. I repeatedly emphazied the safety concerns because BL is promarily meant to be used as a harm reduction site, and I certainly didn't want anyone to end up getting sick or worse after thinking I was recommending its use! It's absolutely true that the subjective feeling I get from it is never the same or nearly like the pleasant effects from mild to moderate opioids. There simply seems to be no "magic dose" somewhere between easing WD and feeling euphoric. Instead, it grades into unpleasantness and feeling it more but in a strange and different way from the dosage that will take away some WD but do little else.

Loperamide (Imodium) actually IS an opioid, and in fact it shares a few molecular similarities to synthetic opioids like methadone and Demerol! The reason it's ineffective despite being a mu opioid agonist is that it doesn't easily cross the blood-brain-barrier. Technically, it would be more correct to say that it DOES cross the BBB, but it gets pumped out very quickly because it's a substrate for a large transporter molecule called P-glycoprotein. This protein exists in the intestinal cells as well, so your body is effectively quite good at removing it quickly which prevents feeling anything but effects in the large intestine which remains its only refuge :D That said, a high enough dose of Loperamide CAN be enough to enter the brain in small amounts because the large "shock dose" overwhelmes the PGP molecules, leaving a small amount free to enter the central nervous system. It's actually a surprisingly STRONG opioid without this effect, as it has quite a high binding affinity the the mu receptors. There have been horror stories of people not only taking very high doses of it, but simultaneously using other chemicals that inhibit the PGP significantly, allowing much larger amounts of Loperamide into the brain :/ In fact, some have gone straight into overdose, gotten to the hospital in time to receive Naloxone which reverses its effect, then gone home - only to tragically be found dead in bed hours later because they went straight back into overdose due to its strength and Naloxone's short half-life Definitely best not to mess with this. It also can prolong the heart's QT interval which itself can cause death in rare cases due to the induction of abnormal heart rhythms which can lead to cardiac arrest!

 

[supersonic89]

At least in my experience, this is very much a half-truth. Imodium does indeed take away some of the worst withdrawal symptoms such as exce3ssive sweating and chills, however this requires taking a dangerous amount of it, and I can NOT in good conscience recommend doing this to anybody! I'm only relating my own personal experiences here.

Anyway, yes, it did (and does) take away most withdrawal symptoms, but not all of them. Sneezing and anxiety are good examples of this, although psychologically speaking, my anxiety DOES often lower significantly after taking Loperamide simply because the other withdrawal symptoms are held for the time being.

However, I have also never, EVER gotten high or even felt any mildly pleasant effect from Imodium regardless of the dose. In fact, the more I take, the worse I feel; there IS a somewhat opioid like feeling at these high doses (above 100 mg for me), but NEVER in a good way. It's almost like a combination of the LEAST pleasant typical opioid effects but without withdrawal. Taking this dose and greater is, again, HIGHLY dangerous and I swear to God that doing so is pointless anyway, at least for me. Please be careful and let me know if you have any other questions!

And will Imodium work for tramadol withdrawal? Something that tells me not much and maybe an SNRI is better.

And I agree with your final comment, I took loperamide and tramadol and only felt that the sedation increased and with a bit of confusion. Weird stuff.

 

[Bomb319]

And will Imodium work for tramadol withdrawal? Something that tells me not much and maybe an SNRI is better.

And I agree with your final comment, I took loperamide and tramadol and only felt that the sedation increased and with a bit of confusion. Weird stuff.

Tramadol is a tricky beast because it actually acts on receptors other than mu, kappa or delta opioids, has less respiratory depression, but also can dramatically lower the seizure threshold and potentially induce them at 300-500 mg or less! I can't remember at the moment what the other receptors are, but it may itself actually be an SNRI. Personally, I don't like it. Long ago, I used to take an entire sheet of 10 in order to get an opioid buzz. Yet all I remember it doing is making me feel strange, jittery and anxous despite there also being somewhat of a more typical opioid feeling buried in there as well. It sure as hell is NOTHING like Percocet (Oxy/APAP 5mg/325 IR) which is what I used to take that eventually brought me to the path of addiction, methadone maintenance and therefore (partial) recovery. I definitely can't recommend that you take Lope with it, given these factors as well as the fact that I've never done it myself and therefore have no idea how it might affect you. If you must do it, I STRONGLY suggest that you do some thorough research online first! Good luck

 

[supersonic89]

Tramadol is a tricky beast because it actually acts on receptors other than mu, kappa or delta opioids, has less respiratory depression, but also can dramatically lower the seizure threshold and potentially induce them at 300-500 mg or less! I can't remember at the moment what the other receptors are, but it may itself actually be an SNRI. Personally, I don't like it. Long ago, I used to take an entire sheet of 10 in order to get an opioid buzz. Yet all I remember it doing is making me feel strange, jittery and anxous despite there also being somewhat of a more typical opioid feeling buried in there as well. It sure as hell is NOTHING like Percocet (Oxy/APAP 5mg/325 IR) which is what I used to take that eventually brought me to the path of addiction, methadone maintenance and therefore (partial) recovery. I definitely can't recommend that you take Lope with it, given these factors as well as the fact that I've never done it myself and therefore have no idea how it might affect you. If you must do it, I STRONGLY suggest that you do some thorough research online first! Good luck

Tramadol can be very addictive unfortunately. Had I known, I would never have taken it. But the first months of my use were spectacular and love the shit, I was high but at the same time fully functional. Also, it gave me energy like caffeine but without the anxiety or jittery
.
During my two years of addiction, I have definitely been very irresponsible. I haven't taken it for 8 days and the depression and lack of motivation is killing me but I feel like I still have a bit of the drug in my system so I don't want to take an SNRI yet.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

2mg xanax would be bars.

While I have heard people are still scripted bars, I don't know a single person these days. Years back, yes. No matter your script, you will get the 1mg football or circles here.

On the lower end, the .25 footballs are commonly scripted.

Never bars. Willing to bet the average pharmacy doesn't even carry them these days since they would go stale.

The stigma of bars is too much.

But why would you ever want to take 2mg of xanax at once? That is huge. Probably designed for people that are going through a serious panic attack or something and can only swallow one pill? Never made sense why 2mg bars were created.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

Just a quick input but valium or bromazepam works a lot better for me then clonazepam no matter the reason its used for.

 

[supersonic89]

None of you are helping!

I'm trying to get him to stop using all of this shit, get clean and sober, and take a stroll up north for me!

Don't worry mate. I'm doing somewhat fine and this was a pretty dumb thread honestly hahaha.

I quit cold turkey tram and clonazepam* and I feel like SHIT right now hahaha (for the tramadol withdrawal, the benzos were only 2 months) but it's the price I will have to pay. I think this Christmas there will be no yellow fire, only champagne.

* don't try this at home kids.

 

[supersonic89]

2mg xanax would be bars.

While I have heard people are still scripted bars, I don't know a single person these days. Years back, yes. No matter your script, you will get the 1mg football or circles here.

On the lower end, the .25 footballs are commonly scripted.

Never bars. Willing to bet the average pharmacy doesn't even carry them these days since they would go stale.

The stigma of bars is too much.

But why would you ever want to take 2mg of xanax at once? That is huge. Probably designed for people that are going through a serious panic attack or something and can only swallow one pill? Never made sense why 2mg bars were created.

So it's an almost global practice we could say. Alprazolam has suffered a tremendous loss of prestige in recent years.

Also, with my little experience with benzos I think that 2 mg of alprazolam ≠ 2 mg. of clonazepam in terms of potency (never feel euphoria though, I wonder if the polyabuse has influenced?). At least that's how I felt.

 

[supersonic89]

Who said I was worried about you? I got a job for you to do!

okay tell me more...

 

[supersonic89]

Good.

So most of us agree that Xanax recreationally sucks. Honestly, I prefer alcohol and I hate alcohol.