Alice in Wonderland syndrome

[Alice Practice]

How's it going up there guys? I think it's high time I checked into this place. I wanna talk about this time I grew somewhat obsessed with acid and nitrous oxide and long story short, developed a new frame of reference into the voluminous mind of Lewis Carroll. Alice in Wonderland syndrome is a perception disorder where a strange disagreement forms between the mind, eyes and body regarding the third dimension. In my case macropsia (objects appear larger than they are) with occasional pelopsia (objects appear closer). My upper body feels larger, my feet seem far away and tiny and I maybe 6', but I think I know what it's like being Danny DeVito. This has a unique relationship with tension headaches, which I never had before. In a way I can "feel" objects I'm looking at in the back of my head, which is overall the worst symptom. Some migraine sufferers experience dysmetropsia naturally. This and epileptic symptoms inspired Alice's whimsical proportions and many aspects of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.

7 hours into my final trip, it's like someone just flipped a switch, boom, my perception suddenly changed in a way I knew wasn't going to be temporary. There were warning signs in trips prior, I just didn't understand them.

It's been a month since I crossed the line. I discovered a glass of red wine turns me into air, sending me into a massive dissociative high. I started going out of body. I read migraine sufferers especially can't enjoy red wine. I also tried weed, but am so disappointed to learn the high is extreme, clear, dissociative, totally acidic and mostly terrifying. It really increases the Alice factor, including days after use. There seems to be a special relationship with tolerance, I experimented for a few days. On the other hand it actually sorted out PTSD symptoms from my initial reaction to hyper reality and in a real way abolished various psychoses I had taken on. I loved weed so much and now I'm afraid I'll never be able to enjoy it again. Obviously that's the least of my problems. I'm totally sober now, but my symptoms are growing mostly worse. 24 hours a day I receive far too much information from objects and sound, they're all variously overrepresented. Wood grain is the craziest for some reason. Tactile variations are what I'm the most worried about, sometimes I feel like that time in Watchmen where Dr. Manhattan's nervous system learns to materialize/walk. I become a stick figure or a shell. Really these symptoms range from beautiful to terrifying. I just want help, but it sounds like time is the only potential cure.

I'm sure I'm not the first one around here to over-indulge in psychedelics. What's the recovery rate for those with persisting symptoms? I long for normalcy. Please share opinions, experiences, anecdotal evidence.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Hi Alice, welcome to Bluelight

Firstly I want to thank you for posting about what you're experiencing, in hopes that anyone else who is suffering from this syndrome can feel slightly more at-ease knowing that they're not the only one.

Are you currently seeing any specialists about your AIWS? From what I've just read in my brief research of the syndrome, there's not a lot known about it, or about any treatments. I suspect that what you said regarding time being the most reliable cure, may indeed be true.

Is your daily functioning compromised by what you're experiencing?


Also, I thought that I might add, I frequently suffer from sleep paralysis both at onset of sleep and upon waking up. Occasionally when I'm drifting off to sleep I get the overwhelming feeling that my head is tiny, and my torso is about 10 metres long, my arms are about 5 metres long, and my hands and feet are so far away that I can hardly recognise them as my own. I've never told anyone this!! I just assumed it was something that everyone experienced sometimes...but maybe not. Perhaps sleep paralysis is associated with brief infrequent AIWS symptoms, and perhaps the mechanisms of both syndromes are somehow related or occur in similar parts of the brain?

Anyway, so I can actually empathise a little bit with what you experience

 

[paranoid android]

Have you seen a neurologist or anyone about this? I can honestly say i don't think ive ever heard of this before but then theres alot of things i havent heard of. Would anti-convulsants help this at all i wonder since they are used for migraines and of course epilepsy. Just throwin that out there.

I used to get migraines alot but besides some visual oddities i never got much in the way of symptoms leeding up to a migraine.

 

[Alice Practice]

It's such a rare disorder. I'm about to get in with a neurologist and a psychologist who among other things offers biofeedback, which could be a most likely solution.

Sleep paralysis! I had that for two weeks afterwards, but see, I got locked up for a night. I went to the ER, silly really. As could be expected I mostly served as entertainment and nobody took me seriously at all. To them I was just tripping, but I knew it was something else. In the loony bin they popped a seroquel (antipsychotic) in me. I woke up in the middle of the night with my whole arm so asleep I thought it would fall off and a strange, if calm state of mind. However the next two weeks I dealt with fascinating degrees of psychosis. I experienced clairvoyance, astral projection, intense lucid dreams and an overwhelming sense I was surrounded by all sorts of beings. Things I don't necessarily believe in, but consider to be either real or an incredible mental process. I'm indifferent to whichever it is. This peaked when after two separate burning smells, two 12 foot light beings waltzed through my room. The next night I was jarred awake by one of them jabbing me in the eye. There was a sort a simultaneous pop in my brain and after this I seemed much better psychologically. Thanks man! Finally marijuana seemed at first to resolve overly intense colors and whatever insanity was left. Unfortunately it then began precipitating the Alice state. Anyway, the sleep paralysis episodes I had were beautiful and strange. I quit experiencing sleep paralysis, but now like you I experience strangely dimensioned limbs as I fall asleep. I also wake up realizing I no longer roll over like I'm supposed to, resulting in various extremities tingling or practically turned blue, but I'm no longer paralyzed per se.

Daily function, I already crashed a car and it's becoming difficult to leave my apartment. On the other hand unfamiliar objects remind me less of how altered my perception really is since I don't recognize them, so there's a comfort in being out.

 

[paranoid android]

Wow thats weird shit but fascinating i gotta say. Ive heard people with migraines and epilepsy describe all sorts of weird symptoms that sound kinda like that. One person i know who had tonic clonic seizures as well as complex partial seizures i think described having symptoms of weird hallucinations and such mostly before a attack. Hers was a result i think though of the fact that she suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome so who knows what part that played in it.

As for sleep paraylsis i used to get that alot before i got put on clonazepam. I used to catch sight of someone out of the corner of my eye and it was terrifying to say the very least. However one night when i got it i just lay there and decided not to fight it at all and just see what happens. It was interesting and i lost most of the fear. I just went by the old don't fight it trick that i learned from years of psychedelic use and it worked it was no longer really scary. Does fuck with your sleep though so meh fuck that shit.

I used to suffer from depersonalization/derealization and id think that i was floating off the bed, everything seemed staticy and out of place. Again i had this before i went on clonazepam and thats been since about 2005 so ive sadly forgotten most of it. Granted i can atleast function now so i shouldnt complain.

 

[kurt_cocaine]

Hi Alice, welcome to Bluelight

Firstly I want to thank you for posting about what you're experiencing, in hopes that anyone else who is suffering from this syndrome can feel slightly more at-ease knowing that they're not the only one.

Are you currently seeing any specialists about your AIWS? From what I've just read in my brief research of the syndrome, there's not a lot known about it, or about any treatments. I suspect that what you said regarding time being the most reliable cure, may indeed be true.

Is your daily functioning compromised by what you're experiencing?


Also, I thought that I might add, I frequently suffer from sleep paralysis both at onset of sleep and upon waking up. Occasionally when I'm drifting off to sleep I get the overwhelming feeling that my head is tiny, and my torso is about 10 metres long, my arms are about 5 metres long, and my hands and feet are so far away that I can hardly recognise them as my own. I've never told anyone this!! I just assumed it was something that everyone experienced sometimes...but maybe not. Perhaps sleep paralysis is associated with brief infrequent AIWS symptoms, and perhaps the mechanisms of both syndromes are somehow related or occur in similar parts of the brain?

Anyway, so I can actually empathise a little bit with what you experience

haha i thought i was the only one who experienced this when falling asleep! sometimes right before i actually fall asleep ill have brief moments where my body feels as if its morphing or growing/shrinking. it never scares me, in fact its kinda "enjoyable", but ive always wondered what caused it. anyone else have any knowledge on this?

 

[n3ophy7e]

haha i thought i was the only one who experienced this when falling asleep! sometimes right before i actually fall asleep ill have brief moments where my body feels as if its morphing or growing/shrinking. it never scares me, in fact its kinda "enjoyable", but ive always wondered what caused it. anyone else have any knowledge on this?

Cool! I actually told my boyfriend what I experience (I had never told him before) and he gets a similar thing sometimes as well! Maybe it is more common than we thought....

kurt, I don't think anyone knows why this kinda stuff happens. Perception is an area of neuroscience in which there is still SO so much to be discovered and studied.
If it happens when we're drifting off to sleep I suspect it has something to do with the mechanism in the brain which paralyses our motor functions when we're asleep, which could alter our body image perception mechanism temporarily. I am purely speculating though. All this stuff seriously interests me so I'm going to look in to it further.

It's such a rare disorder. I'm about to get in with a neurologist and a psychologist who among other things offers biofeedback, which could be a most likely solution.

Alice I wish you all the best with the specialist appointments. I hope they can find some kind of solution or relief of your symptoms because I can imagine this would be really hard for you. Please keep us updated

 

[Alice Practice]

I guess a decent question is, and I realize there's no straight answer, among people with persisting effects, how often does that tend to be permanent versus being something like a psychedelic flu.

 

[MySecret]

Wow, that sounds like it would be fun (not the epilepsy part but the permanent trip part) but I bet it gets old!

 

[MySecret]

Google search "Alice in wonderland syndrome treatment" brings up:

A 20 years-old male experienced frequent and prolonged attacks of abdominal colic associated with autonomic manifestations started at the age of ten. At the age of 17, he additionally described prolonged attacks (≥ 7 days) of distortions of shape, size or position of objects or subjects. He said "Quite suddenly, objects appear small and distant (teliopsia) or large and close (peliopsia). I feel as I am getting shorter and smaller "shrinking" and also the size of persons are not longer than my index finger (a lilliputian proportion). Sometimes I see the blind in the window or the television getting up and down, or my leg or arm is swinging. I may hear the voices of people quite loud and close or faint and far. Occasionally, I experience attacks of migrainous headache associated with eye redness, flashes of lights and a feeling of giddiness. I am always conscious to the intangible changes in myself and my environment". There is a strong family history of common migraine. Clinical examination, brain-MRI and EEG were normal. Transcranial magnetic stimulation and evoked potentials revealed enhanced cortical excitability in multiple brain regions. Treatment with valproate resulted in marked improvement of all clinical and neurophysiological abnormalities.

Treatment options for Alice in Wonderland syndrome

The way AIWS is usually treated is through the use of antidepressants, anti-seizure medications, calcium channel blockers and beta blockers.

Conclusion

There is no cure for Alice in Wonderland syndrome. The treatment is to prevent the symptoms from occurring. Drugs used to treat depression; blood pressure and angina are often effective in treating and preventing the symptoms of Alice in Wonderland syndrome. The antidepressant drugs, Elavil and Pamalor, are quite effective (used most often) in treating the symptoms of AIWS. Pamalor is less sedating than Elavil, and is sometimes preferred for people who lead fairly active lives. Other drugs used to treat the symptoms of AIWS are Depakote (anti-seizure medication); Procardia (calcium channel blocker) used to treat blood pressure and angina; and Inderal (beta blocker) used to treat blood pressure, angina, and after a heart attack).

 

[Alice Practice]

Some days it's beautiful, others, terrifying. I'm trying to make the best of it, but wouldn't mind an off switch. Remission from psychedelic overload isn't unheard of, but my symptoms seem to run deeper than most and maybe the real deal. I just wish I had a perspective on how often this happened back in the day and whatever came of it. To some people it's just a psychedelic flu and I hear stories that it will pass.

 

[MySecret]

Would you be willing to consider the options I have provided for you above?

Just curious.

 

[panic in paradise]

i just noticed what you said about the Seroquel,,, i took it for three nights, then, my left forearm went numb. i was up and great feeling for three days straight, then things became very bad...
the only time "reality" would come back was smoking marijuana, enough of it anyway.

my forearm stayed numb enough that i had to be aware not to injure it, and ever since then most any drug i take gives me a varying paradoxical reaction, usually a bad one with massive dysphoria, including antibiotics.

i suppose i have had decent sleep paralysis also, but i enjoy this..

have you tried other meds since?
have you taken Albuteral or Prednisone since?
any glycemic level changes?

 

[Alice Practice]

I'm going to definitely explore the Pamelor option first and any others that make sense, with caution of course. I'm totally frustrated with my new reality, from being locked out of the good weed high to the far more serious 24/7 implications. I'll do anything to improve on this and will begin a lifestyle of extreme health.

God, I hope seroquel isn't really a factor. So you feel it's also affected your response to medication and substances? Would you include alcohol in that? It was just one (fat) pill, but I keep having these dreams back in the loony bin with the pill cork-screwing my head or similar. They don't give a fuck, they just throw the most extreme pills at everyone like it's all they can do. I'm just glad sanity was able to (mostly) restore.

I just had some blood drawn, I'll see if glycemic levels are indicated. How funny you mention albuterol, that's the one thing I've been hitting. I have asthma. Why?

 

[RandomGuy123]

Only advice I can give is keeping some xanax around just in case you ave a panic attack in public/in your ouse.

 

[panic in paradise]

adrenal gland problems are indicative if cartiosteroids are an issue, and glycemic levels altered. this function is controlled by the pituitary gland, and if - fucked with - can cause different effects, controlled by one of the quadrants...
most people have issues with their pituitary gland, but never know.

you would know if you were having negative reactions to albuteral, from glycemic or adrenal gland problems. im trying to pin point some for myself with the Seroquel and arm reaction, strange.

i have physical health issues that confuse the medication reactions.
or
maybe medication reactions that cause health issues.!

BUT, sometimes psychosis such as this can be treated with a simple change in diet looking at medication again, or time.


your handling this amazingly
keep it up and keep us updated if you please.

 

[Flickering]

I'm bumping this topic because I was going to make a similar one myself, and this one's only a month old.

Okay - due to a series of annoying circumstances, I have yet to try drugs; the furthest I've gone is 120mg of dextromethorphan which made me sick, and I probably won't be repeating that. However, having had Alice in Wonderland Syndrome sober as a child, I've had to do a lot of research into whether it will affect my experience on psychadelics.

For example, Addiction Medicine Volume 1 edited by Bankole A Johnson states:

Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder is a rare disorder that may afflict individuals who, in particular, report anomalous visual disturbances (such as “floaters” or episodes of micropsia/macropsia) premorbid to hallucinogen exposure and who did eventually try lysergic acid diethylamide.

So I'd be unwise to take too much acid. (HPPD is not so much a concern as the heightened potential for a severe psychotic episode, or the kind of experience Alice Practice describes in this thread.) Cannabis, I believe, is also risky.

I determined salvia and DMT should be okay, even though they are reported to induce micropsia episodes.

In both the salvia and the night terror experience, the person is unaware of his surroundings, and many on salvia are distressed to some extent. Having experienced both... I can say that the feelings are very similar.

(Note that the author mistakes AiWS for night terrors; I experienced both as a child and they're completely different things. Though, AiWS episodes were always horrible, and I can understand him calling them night terrors.)

Since salvia and DMT are very intense, I'm going to be trying mushrooms and possibly mescaline first. Does anyone have a crossover experience between AiWS and these drugs, or any others? I believe it's a more common experience than we think, so I'm sure someone here would have.

Also worth noting that DXM is known to induce the syndrome, and it may be responsible for causing the condition in the first place when given to children through cough syrup - the dose is minute, but apparently it's enough. I suspect that's why it developed with me. Doesn't necessarily mean DXM is dangerous for adults who have / had dysmetropsic episodes, though. I would, however, advise that anyone with kids never give them cough medicine containing the stuff, and preferably don't give them cough medicine at all. Journals from my investigation have shown links, admittedly only correlative, between dextromethorphan and hundreds of child deaths. I can back this up if anyone wants to challenge it.

 

[Ixchellian]

My upper body feels larger, my feet seem far away and tiny and I maybe 6'........ In a way I can "feel" objects I'm looking at in the back of my head

^this^

Along with feeling like my whole body is shrinking, down to singularity-size..... is something I've been feeling periodically ever since I was a kid. It's not so visual, as it's a perception of self..... but it causes weird things to happen with my perspective. It only ever happens when I'm sober, and completely at rest....

As it is, MDMA caused this to happen far more than acid ever has..... and I've not had any more occurances than is normal since I last rolled.
Having the shrinking-feeling is never good while dancing, and luckily it only ever hit me while I was sitting against a wall or monitor stack.

LSD never causes any disconnect or disassociation with me other than ego-separation, and restlessness. If anything, it makes my own observational reference point more static, and precludes any weird disassociative hallucinations.
Neither mescaline nor psilocybin affect my sense of spatial-being, perspective, or associations......

Again, during my "sober" hours (not tripping), there's been no increase or reoccurance of hallucinations since going on a psychedelic excursion.
If it matters any..... I never have had a migrane during a month in which I've done LSD at least once. I usually have a really bad one every month, or 2-3 every two months.

MDMA, DXM (even at sub-2nd plateau levels), THC (in massive quantities), cocaine, and meth all increase the incidence of migranes within a month.
hmmmm.....

 

[Flickering]

Hey, thanks for your reply. Yeah, I've been told not to do any drugs if I have migraines or seizures, fortunately I don't... though as for DXM causing them, I do have a slight headache still left over from my first attempted trip a week and a half ago. I'll be leaving that stuff alone. I've seen things happen to people, my cousin being one of them, and I'm overly cautious. As for cocaine, ecstasy, meth and possibly even cannabis, they were all things I was going to avoid anyway.

Anyway, I know where you're coming from with the Alice episodes, it distorted my sense of self too, along with touch, sound and proprioception. Everything felt hideous whenever it started, from the bed covers to the dissociation from my surroundings, and it lasted the whole night. I'd get a droning "Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh" in the back of my head the whole way through, without pause. And when I finally got to sleep despite it all, well, I'm pretty sure I know what a really bad trip is like.

Good to hear acid doesn't worsen the problem for you though. If I do end up taking it, it'll be infrequently, to avoid what happened to Alice Practice. Thanks for letting me know about psilocybin and mescaline, seems they're a safe and not-too-intense start, though I will be reading up on a few scientific journals first to be sure.

 

[Ixchellian]

..... as for DXM causing them, I do have a slight headache still left over from my first attempted trip a week and a half ago.

DXM has always been a rough ride for me..... nausea during, and then after-trip headaches galore.
So yeah, not my thing. It was interesting at first, but the weird thing with DXM is that with a lot of ppl, they build up a permanent tolerance to it..... so the next trip will never be as intense as the last.

Anyway, I know where you're coming from with the Alice episodes, it distorted my sense of self too, along with touch, sound and proprioception ...... And when I finally got to sleep despite it all, well, I'm pretty sure I know what a really bad trip is like.

I dunno.... never had a bad trip from LSD, or from mescaline/mushrooms (all hand-picked).

I personally prefer psilocybin/mushrooms on a regular basis, which are far less nauseating than mescaline.... and far easier to obtain. Besides, knowing what you pick yourself from the bush is a lot safer than someone else picking them from the street.

Good to hear acid doesn't worsen the problem for you though. If I do end up taking it, it'll be infrequently, to avoid what happened to Alice Practice. Thanks for letting me know about psilocybin and mescaline, seems they're a safe and not-too-intense start

I wouldn't say that it's a not-too-intense experience, as far as first starts go. Too much of either can be just as overwhelming as LSD.... they just lack the duration of acid.

Me talking about intensity-levels with a psychedelic neophyte would be misleading..... I can take a heroic amount of acid (or whatever), and then report "yeah, it was a little rough for a few hours", and be completely telling the truth.
But my "little rough" patch would likely make a novice catatonic.
Still, bad trips are user-generated..... even an unfortunate who took too much acid can still have a good experience. they might never want to do it again due to it's intensity, but they wouldn't consider it as being bad.

As when trying any new psychedelic, having an experienced and caring psychonaut on hand can be a lifesaver.

Just remember; setting, safety, support, and supplies....
(don't get caught up in an 8hr trip, out in the desert, with only moutain-dew and lollies for sustenance. 8) )