ald 25

[danstabbingworth]

if my memory serves me correctly, i recall seeing something on erowid about a compound similar to lsd called ald 25. i think it said that the drug was almost the same, except it didn't prey on receptors that caused paranoia; instead, it caused a more euphoric trip.

does anyone know what this is, and why it never caught on since it sounds in theory like a superior chemical?

 

[PopThereal]

ALD-52 or N-acetyl-LSD, is a chemical analogue of LSD-25 (D-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide), discovered by Albert Hofmann, but later just filed away.

...

It has the same characteristics as LSD, but supposedly "without the anxiety, tenseness, and other problems inherent to it".


quoted from answers.com

 

[abrad84]

AFAIK the main reason it never caught on is that the only available synthesis involves first synthesing LSD so it would not be worth their while to take the extra steps to sythesise ALD-52

 

[pin]

from erowid:

'Windsor [US lab] was not producing lSD but ALD-52, similar but
not illegal, or so [Tim] Scully believed. Scully found the ALD
formula among scientific papers and books in the specialist
library at Berkeley. It was a compound [Albert] Hofmann had tested
years before. At the University of California Medical Center(sic),
Scully uncovered the scientific paper Hofmann and a colleague had
published on the drug. From the US Patent Office he drew patent
number 2,810,723, lodged by Sandoz with production details. In The
Hallucinogens co-authored by Osmond and Hofmann, Scully discovered
a table comparing the effects of ALD and other drugs in the same
family.

The table suggested that ALD might actually have advantages over
LSD, reducing any side effects but achieving a stronger trip.
Measurements of brain waves while people were taking the two drugs
showed that while LSD produced brain waves associated with intense
concentration and anxiety, ALD produced brain waves showing a more
relaxed mental state.

There was one snag. Hofmann's formula meant making LSD first, then
converting it into ALD. Although the finished product might be legal
, at a crucial stage in its production it was illegal. The solution
was a simple reversal in the order of production so that at no time
was the drug illegal. Neither Hitchcock nor the Brothers were told
of ALD. Hitchcock had been badly burned financially when STP had
picked up a bad name on the streets. It was thought he would oppose
ALD as yet another innovation that would prove difficult to sell.
The drug was simply labelled 'acid', and he and the Brotherhood
were none the wiser.'

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ Which is an extract from the book 'The Brotherhood of Eternal Love'

 

[youarewhatyouis]

...

 

[danstabbingworth]

so can anyone other than people participating in a lab survey attest to having taken this drug? or is it possible that it's out there labeled as acid, but isn't really?

also, although i know very little about RCs, with people experimenting with all sorts of crazy drugs, it seems like it would be worth the extra effort to make ald. or is it really that much more effort?

 

[bickoma]

Since it's [supposedly] difficult to synthesize, or just stupid to synthesize, since, I think, LSD is required to begin with.

However, I have read that ALD-52 can be synthesized without LSD being 'active'.

My guess would be LSD is labeled as LSD, and ALD-52 is labeled as such, and only handled by certain circles.

 

[the_ketaman]

also ive heard that ALD-52 degrades to LSD-25 in a short amount of time if not kept in the correct conditions. so alot of the ALD-25 that did get on to the streets would have become LSD pretty quickly as many people have no idea how to store acid.

 

[fatal]

ALD-52 is sold to those who know what it is as what it is. It is sold to others as acid. Yes people do make it. You have probably had it before and don't know.

 

[the_ketaman]

^i doubt it.

 

[stu_pidaso]

^i doubt it.

Same here, as I recall ALD is turned into LSD in the body. So whats the difference except when it comes to a legal defense, which didnt work anyway?

 

[fastandbulbous]

It has a higher octanol:water partition coefficient (means it's more fat soluble than LSD) - this probably results in a easier penetration of the blood brain barrier (bit like the difference between heroin & morphine).

ALD-52 is sold to those who know what it is as what it is. It is sold to others as acid. Yes people do make it. You have probably had it before and don't know.

I very much doubt it - it requires an extra synthetic step (therefore reducing the overall yeild in terms of doses from each gram of ergotamine tartrate you start with) for a modest increase in how the intoxication feels. It's the sort of thing that not many people will have had compared with straight LSD.

 

[fatal]

^no offense here but im 100% sure about what i am talking about and you all are 0% sure about what you are talking about. on thepointof it taking an extra step to cook think about this... if youre already cooking *alot* of acid then why not? either way... i know for a solid fact that it gets made and sold. so if u wanna try it that bad go find it

 

[Synto_]

^no offense here but im 100% sure about what i am talking about and you all are 0% sure about what you are talking about. on thepointof it taking an extra step to cook think about this... if youre already cooking *alot* of acid then why not?

You're telling some pretty knowledgeable people that they are 0% sure of what they're talking about. You ask why not take the step(s) necessary to make ALD-25 if you're making a lot of acid. This question has already been answered in this thread. You would need more ergotamine to produce a similar yeild, therefore it would cost you more money to synth than LSD. If you're going to synth a lot of LSD, then in the end you're going to spend a lot more money to convert it to ALD-25. This is why not.

 

[fatal]

no actually the reason why not would be that there is no ald-25 while there however is ald-52 . i do realize that the others in this thread are not idiots and in fact are rather insightful and knowledgable on similar topics. but you all are telling an extremely knowledgable person that there is no ald52... in the world... anywhere... and that it isnt sold taken or made. and youre fucking wrong. that was my point. not trying to put anyone down.

pz

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ Yeah, right... everybody here doesn't have a clue.

Even if someone did go to the extra effort to make ALD-52, by the time it reaches 'street level' it'll have hydrolysed to LSD because of the storage; it's extremely sensitive to atmospheric moisture so unless someone happens to obtain crystalline ALD-52 in an airtight container under an inert atmosphere, it's going to be LSD again a few weeks after synthesis if in the form of blotter, microdot or 'liquid' acid. The LSD normally encountered from clandestine labs is rarely purified to the 90%+ level. If they can't be bothered to ensure that level of purity, what do you think the chances are of them going a step further (losing more of the LSD in the process as it's not a 100% yeild reaction) to produce a compound that's going to have hydrolysed back to LSD within a few weeks because people further down the distribution chain don't observe inert atmosphere etc?

if youre already cooking *alot* of acid then why not?

Because in the N-acetylation process you're going to cause some of the LSD to isomerize to iso-LSD, effectively reducing the number of doses you eventually end up with. All the common dosage forms seen for LSD would mean any blotters of ALD-52 would be LSD again within a few weeks. It also involves having to obtain yet another monitored reagent (acetic anhydride) which is just one more way to end up alerting the authourities.

i know for a solid fact that it gets made and sold.

How? You part of a lab manufacturing it or have access to GC/MS equipment so you can run an analysis on a sample of crystalline LSD/ALD-52? Otherwise you're just depending on hearsay. Just because someone tells you it is ALD-52 is far from any 'solid fact' - there are a lot of 'dubious sources of information' in this particular field.

I heard about silver liquid once. 400ug sounds appropriate. watch out for acid analogues nowadays. i read somewhere that ALD52 has been popping up. maybe bullshit. i dunno. i dont take acid anyways.

Your above quote about acid in the US doesn't sound like the most reliable of sources of information... Even you add the comment 'maybe bullshit' after commenting 'I read it somewhere'.

no offense here but im 100% sure about what i am talking about and you all are 0% sure about what you are talking about

Reading it 'somewhere' doesn't qualify as 100% certain in my book (or anybody else's come to that)

 

[davesoviet]

ALD-52 is sold to those who know what it is as what it is. It is sold to others as acid. Yes people do make it. You have probably had it before and don't know.

Sounds reasonable to me.

There was a drug price thread recently and I laughed at how many times people all over the US mentioned "2C-B" instead of "2C-I" and "2C-E".

And having known of people selling "research chemicals", I can't begin to tell you how many times "2C-E" has been sold as "2C-B" if not "mescaline" or 4-HO-MiPT was sold as "synthetic mushrooms" or "synthetic psilocybin". Your average drug user has never heard of these exotic compounds, can't grasp chemical names and abbreviations, and really couldn't care less what it is anyways because it's either "like acid," "like mushrooms," or "like mescaline" and that's all that matters.

I've personally encountered DOB on blotter and DOM in the form of geltabs in my day. The DOB was sold to me as "acid". The DOM was sold to me by different dealers as "really strong acid" or "synthetic mescaline". I eventually confronted the guy who sold me the suspected DOB and it's identity was confirmed. I confronted people who sold me suspected DOM and one confirmed it and the other guy insisted it was sold to him as synthetic mescaline and that is what it was (though both these dealers were acquiring from the same source). Those who admitted what the substances really were both stated that they just didn't sell it for what it really was because they knew they had something good that people who tripped would enjoy and it was too difficult explaining to people what it really was. It's VERY hard to market new drugs to people who really only care about getting high or the quality of the experience versus what they're taking.

I even encountered one guy a few months ago who knew he buying 2C-E and would turn around and tell people about this great drug they used called "3C3" and came up with his own name for it, "the matrix".

And still to this day, I can't tell you how many people I know that are convinced there is a difference between "acid" and "25", because "LSD-25 is the real thing but unless you're connected with hippy families you're only going to get acid".

Really... as far as most people are concerned, it's pretty hopeless trying to get them to understand this stuff.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Sounds reasonable to me.

Yes, but in all the cases you gave (DOM, DOB, 2C-E) of something being sold as acid or 'synthetic mescaline', it's because the drug being sold under a different name is either easier to synthesise (DOM/DOB vs LSD) of more desirable (more demand for mescaline than 2C-E). ALD-52 is both more difficult and more expensive to manufacture than LSD (involves another synthetic step with a monitored reagent) and is in greater demand by people who are experienced trippers (the fabled 'orange sunshine'). Anybody going to the extra hassle & expense of making ALD-52 is going to be selling it as just that (and at a greater cost than LSD).

Does it sound reasonable to manufacture a more expensive & more in demand drug than LSD then sell it for less as LSD? Could you imagine someone going to the hassle & cost of extracting/synthesising mescaline then selling it as something cheaper?

That doesn't sound at all reasonable to me...

 

[silentscience]

LSD is better.