alcoholism thread

[UnSquare]

^
I'd say I know quite a few people,
includin' myself,
who definitely consume that much
(if not more)
most weekends.

PEACE
UnS

 

[Madmike]

^
PEACE
UnS

Thanks,

trying to find that


It is always comforting to know that time will heal this anxiety and nausea.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

here's a thought: do any of you experience that drinking the day after a night of boozing is fantastic?

That is because you give your body what it is withdrawing from.

Edit: Watch it, no name calling. Last verbal warning.

 

[ozzifar]

^that's a bit unfair to call him that not everyone is clued up about these things, why not tell him what he's doing is harmful etc instead of attacking him?

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

You are absolutely right. And Im sorry. Its just this whole Forum, TDS irritates and annoys me to no end - benzo's , benzo's , benzo's is all everyone talks about like they are some miracle fucking fix it drug without people actually acknowledging the fact that benzo's are also a drug that can have just as fucked effects on you, and it doesnt actually "fix" any of your problems, rather put them on hold for a few hours. No one actually ever EVER recommends some actually helpful advice - just go replace your current drug habit for another one. Its fucking bullshit.

I know that this is on a slight tangent from that poster, its just that im sick of hearing about these type of attitudes which are anything but healthy. And you know what, maybe some people will fuck themselves up if they take 2 valiums with a shitload of alcohol, everyone has different tolerances and I dont really endorse a thread that promotes potentially harmful behaviour based on other peoples tolerances. Maybe that means that Ive missed the whole point of BL, but I dont really care.

Stop using Benzo's dependently to control your other addictions and quell your mental health issues that are directly caused by those addictions. Thats some good advice I have for you !

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

I should also say I dont judge those who chose to use benzo's or that no one should , ever. My point is that benzo's as a form of help is over used in this forum.

Thats my feeling anyway.

 

[BlackOut]

That is because you give your body what it is withdrawing from.

Wow. Thanks, that reply was really helpful.

I'm not really sure you understood what I was trying to say. Maybe you should try reading posts that offend you a little more carefully. Just some advice that would make you look a little less, shall we say, uhm, hotheaded in the future.

 

[stellablue]

I don't want to see any more attacks in this thread.........stay on topic.

 

[sushii]

You are absolutely right. And Im sorry. Its just this whole Forum, TDS irritates and annoys me to no end - benzo's , benzo's , benzo's is all everyone talks about like they are some miracle fucking fix it drug without people actually acknowledging the fact that benzo's are also a drug that can have just as fucked effects on you, and it doesnt actually "fix" any of your problems, rather put them on hold for a few hours. No one actually ever EVER recommends some actually helpful advice - just go replace your current drug habit for another one. Its fucking bullshit.

I agree with you 100% about benzos not being a miracle drug (and about many people seeming to think that they are - this annoys me no end too) but in regards to the early stages of alcohol withdrawal they can be very useful. It's common practice to prescribe a (short) course of benzos to ameliorate some of the physical symptoms.....in this instance it's not about replacing one drug for another, but about ensuring that life-threatening siezures are kept at bay.

And I think you'll find that many people here actually share your views about benzos - there are quite a few posters that have been through benzo withdrawal and offer some very practical and thoughtful advice to those who seem to be heading down the same path.

I've seen you make some great posts in TDS, so I hope you stick around despite your annoyance with us

However, since this is a harm reduction site, I would love to hear HOW many benzos you take while drinking - mainly because I am of the persuasion that scaring people into thinking "if I take 2 mg valium with one beer, I WILL DIE!!!!!1111oneone" is much more harmful than it is good.

It's also a matter of tolerance - someone with a heavy benzo habit will be able to tolerate far greater amounts than someone who uses sporadically. It can get very misleading when people start listing amounts when they're dependent....I'm not sure how this would be promoting harm reduction at all.

 

[burn out]

i think its actually the opposite. benzos and stimulants are drugs which are generally looked down upon on bluelight, whereas opiates, psychedelics and cannabis are considered miracle drugs. just read the responses to any news article posted on cannabis and you'll see this to be true. if the article has something positive to say about cannabis, people say "see, i told you so" and "and it's still not legal" but if the article says something negative then everyone responds with "bullshit".

similarly, there are many people on bluelight who think opiates are the solution to their problems and their illegality is the only downside. and then you have people talking about how psychedelics saved their lives (when in reality, they have no way of knowing what would have happened to them if they hadn't taken psychedelics).

there are tons of horror stories about benzo addiction and wd all over bluelight, yet when people post their stories of how cannabis negatively affected their life, no one takes them seriously.

benzos have legitimate treatment in alcohol withdrawal and although they can fuck you up just like any drug, if the choice is between going on benzos for what possibly is only short term or dying from alcohol withdrawal or alcoholism related health problems, i think benzos would be the lessor of two evils (even if you simply substitute benzo addiction for alcohol addiction, benzos seem to have less toxic affects on your organs than alcohol). so if there is any place their use deserves discussion, it is in the management of alcohol withdrawal.

 

[Spurs_1882]

I find benzos very useful in minimising the harm associated with my drinking.

If I want I can mix the two drugs together, thus needing less alcohol to get the same effect. Whilst this is dangerous and has led to much stupidity, if you know your dosage, err on the side of caution and take the benzos first and then drink slowly, you'll be fine. IME the problems arise when you drink first and then take the benzos; this can be a recipe for disaster. If you are the sort of person whose personality changes when you drink, and you might be tempted to take more later on, then give your benzos to someone to look after. The reason to do this is so that your hangovers are less bad the next day. Which for me is important, as my tolerance is high and I tend to get anxiety, shaking, sweats etc the day after drinking, if I've really drank heavily, which I do, and if I've been drinking a lot in recent weeks especially.

They are also very, very useful at getting rid of the anxiety/shaking/insomnia etc of a hangover. Obviously doing this all the time i.e. drinking then benzos then back to drinking is going to lead to addiction in some form. But it's fine every now and then. At the moment I am trying to save my benzos however as I am interested in seeing what they are like on their own.

Drinking the day after drinking is certainly a good experience. I find after a few drinks a great euphoric rush hits you. However, it is indeed because you are giving your body what it is withdrawing from- especially if you're alcohol dependent to any extent like me- and will just make you feel doubly shit the following day. It's also bad for your liver, drinking heavily two days in a row.

THanks for your posts in my thread in OD about drinking btw, Blackout.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

benzos have legitimate treatment in alcohol withdrawal and although they can fuck you up just like any drug, if the choice is between going on benzos for what possibly is only short term or dying from alcohol withdrawal or alcoholism related health problems, i think benzos would be the lessor of two evils (even if you simply substitute benzo addiction for alcohol addiction, benzos seem to have less toxic affects on your organs than alcohol). so if there is any place their use deserves discussion, it is in the management of alcohol withdrawal.

I agree with 90% of this post. As legitimate use for true alcohol withdrawal for a short period of time, thats fine. But its extremely different from

PS) would love to hear your benzo habits when drinking. For example. I WON'T DRINK if Ido not have some benzos for the hangover, because it's just hell without them. Also, I find that when not drinking enough alcohol, benzos will even things out a lot.

However, since this is a harm reduction site, I would love to hear HOW many benzos you take while drinking - mainly because I am of the persuasion that scaring people into thinking "if I take 2 mg valium with one beer, I WILL DIE!!!!!1111oneone" is much more harmful than it is good.

The point is, to keep some sort of credibility, we'll have to acknowledge that "harm reducton" also encompasses REDUCTION OF UNNECESSARY FEAR.

Especially the part in bold. I dont believe this is for alcohol withdrawal from years of heavy use, as the poster said he drinks once every 2 months. This a great example and promotion of benzo abuse. Sure its alcohol withdrawal if you want to get technical, but I call bullshit if you want to suggest that this suitable use for benzo's.

Its just one of many responses in TDS that promotes Benzo's , like I said, as miracle fix it drug. If we are talking recreational use , thats a totally different topic altogether, but we arent. This is the TDS , where I am assuming that people feel fucking shit, and want to feel better. I dont endorse from any aspect that over and unnecessary use of benzo's are going to lead people to feeling better in the long term, which is the original point I didnt so delicately make.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

I find benzos very useful in minimising the harm associated with my drinking.

I fail to see how temporarily minimizing your hang over affects, which is your body telling your that you need to stop drinking, so that you can drink more, and less feel the effects of your drinking binges is minimising harm. Dude, just cus you cant feel it, doesnt mean it isnt doing you any damage.

If I want I can mix the two drugs together, thus needing less alcohol to get the same effect. Whilst this is dangerous and has led to much stupidity, if you know your dosage, err on the side of caution and take the benzos first and then drink slowly, you'll be fine. IME the problems arise when you drink first and then take the benzos; this can be a recipe for disaster. If you are the sort of person whose personality changes when you drink, and you might be tempted to take more later on, then give your benzos to someone to look after. The reason to do this is so that your hangovers are less bad the next day. Which for me is important, as my tolerance is high and I tend to get anxiety, shaking, sweats etc the day after drinking, if I've really drank heavily, which I do, and if I've been drinking a lot in recent weeks especially.

Far far too many variables here to be offered as literal advice.

They are also very, very useful at getting rid of the anxiety/shaking/insomnia etc of a hangover. Obviously doing this all the time i.e. drinking then benzos then back to drinking is going to lead to addiction in some form. But it's fine every now and then. At the moment I am trying to save my benzos however as I am interested in seeing what they are like on their own.

No its not going to lead to addiction, because the signs are already there that you are already addicted. To alcohol, I mean, not specifically to benzo's. And like I said, benzo's just subside some of that anxiety and shaking. You are simply shelving those problems for a time until you come back to them , and what do you know ?! They seemed to have gotten much much bigger in size and managability. Anything, and I mean anything at all, that allows you a temporary break from these problems, is just that. Its a small hiding space for the things you wish not to think about to reside. But unfortunately, they dont just sit there waiting, getting better. Without proper care and consideration, the hard yakka shit no one seems fond of in here, they grow, much much bigger.

Drinking the day after drinking is certainly a good experience. I find after a few drinks a great euphoric rush hits you. However, it is indeed because you are giving your body what it is withdrawing from- especially if you're alcohol dependent to any extent like me- and will just make you feel doubly shit the following day. It's also bad for your liver, drinking heavily two days in a row.

That euphoric rush you are experiencing is your withdrawing alcoholic body being satiated by its drug of choice. Alcohol is very bad for your liver, but guess what ? So is any pressure you put on your liver with drugs it doesnt need, especially something like benzo's.

This post makes me so sad , I almost want to cry.

I know I use a lot of emotive language when I post, its just that I feel very strongly about this topic. From personal experience, and some limited professional knowledge I have as well.

 

[StolenBrew]

Lately I have been depressed. Acouple of weeks ago I went away with my girlfriend for a week for a holiday and was having the time of my life. When I came back home I found I was in the same fucked up routine. I need to either get more friends, quit my job, or move out of home. I've been at the same job for nearly 2 years and I haven't made any real friends let alone talk to people. This week alone I have drank every second night, but I have been drinking within the week for ages (not this much though for about 2 years). I don't really give a fuck about my life, where I'm going to end up. I know I have to work for money, and money makes the world go round (I do want to move out of home, get my own house, etc). If I can get weed I will smoke it and it cancels out my drinking habits. I'm worried about loosing my teeth from drinking so much (so I guess I do actually care about my life) If I live over 27 I'll be happy. When I went back to work I crashed hard (mind you I only drank a 6 pack over the whole week I was away on holiday) work brings me down (I work in a telstra call centre regarding home phones, mobiles and internet [shouldnt be getting this personal but...]) last tuesday I felt really depressed I was stuck in this rut called life, had the day off... drove to work on wednesday and was about to go in when i broke down in tears talking to my g/f because I couldnt handle it... went to the doctors who advised i have thursday off and see a psychologist to talk about my problems (if im in a bad place i find it really hard to talk about my feelings without getting emotional) and recommended that I take some type of medication (which i said isnt a good idea considering I like to abuse substances) lately I have been okay and will probably cancel my appointment with the psychologist as the next available time is a month away...I know I cant escape with alcohol forever, as I said earlier I need to either get a new job, move out of home or get new friends (I find this the hardest as from previous experiences I've put my trust in fuckheads who have used me for money, etc) I do avoid situations and talking to people because I guess I'm fucked in the head... Yeh hopefully someone will read this and see that alcohol isnt the quick fix.. more of an escape, It works for me, then again I dont really care if I like til im 50...

Sorry about the spelling, etc

 

[StolenBrew]

Lately I have been depressed. Acouple of weeks ago I went away with my girlfriend for a week for a holiday and was having the time of my life. When I came back home I found I was in the same fucked up routine. I need to either get more friends, quit my job, or move out of home. I've been at the same job for nearly 2 years and I haven't made any real friends let alone talk to people. This week alone I have drank every second night, but I have been drinking within the week for ages (not this much though for about 2 years). I don't really give a fuck about my life, where I'm going to end up. I know I have to work for money, and money makes the world go round (I do want to move out of home, get my own house, etc). If I can get weed I will smoke it and it cancels out my drinking habits. I'm worried about loosing my teeth from drinking so much (so I guess I do actually care about my life) If I live over 27 I'll be happy. When I went back to work I crashed hard (mind you I only drank a 6 pack over the whole week I was away on holiday) work brings me down (I work in a telstra call centre regarding home phones, mobiles and internet [shouldnt be getting this personal but...]) last tuesday I felt really depressed I was stuck in this rut called life, had the day off... drove to work on wednesday and was about to go in when i broke down in tears talking to my g/f because I couldnt handle it... went to the doctors who advised i have thursday off and see a psychologist to talk about my problems (if im in a bad place i find it really hard to talk about my feelings without getting emotional) and recommended that I take some type of medication (which i said isnt a good idea considering I like to abuse substances) lately I have been okay and will probably cancel my appointment with the psychologist as the next available time is a month away...I know I cant escape with alcohol forever, as I said earlier I need to either get a new job, move out of home or get new friends (I find this the hardest as from previous experiences I've put my trust in fuckheads who have used me for money, etc) I do avoid situations and talking to people because I guess I'm fucked in the head... Yeh hopefully someone will read this and see that alcohol isnt the quick fix.. more of an escape, It works for me, then again I dont really care if I live til im 50...

Sorry about the spelling, etc

edit edit edit

 

[BlackOut]

My point is, whether or not you get your panties in a bunch every time someone uses benzos with alcohol, people are going to do it, and do it all the time.

What I mean about credibility is that while discouragement of the abuse of benzos is a good thing, we should also retain some credibilty on the subject: Won't it be more helpful to take the pragmatic approach than the teetoaling?

It's the classic reefer madness argument: Do people listen if we tell them that they will become killers and rapists if they smoke weed? Will they take Bluelight advice more seriously if we condone responsible use instead of abstinence?

You can argue that people shouldn't use benzos at all except for emergencies, but reality is, people use them all the time, for all kinds of reasons. Why not try to limit the damage through having a realistic approach to the usage?

And btw, a great thing I do before I post: Count to ten. It makes my posts so much more approachable.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

Good post, but like I said, we arent discussing the recreational merits of benzo's or benzo's and alcohol. What I am interested in discussing, is the approach some people take to using benzo's as a miracle "fix-it " drug. That is the attitude that is disturbing to me.

 

[BREAKaBEAT]

I should mention I have used benzo's in the past for recreational use, and had some very pleasant experiences. Im not referring at all to this type of use which is completely different to the attitude of most people choosing to post in TDS. They post here because they are unhappy, and wish not to be anymore. Like I said, I dont endorse benzo prolonged use for this reason , at all.

I am sure there are other forums to discuss healthy, recreational use of benzo's. I am almost certain it isnt here. Nor is it the topic of my concerns.

 

[burn out]

you're right that the dark side isn't the right place to discuss mixing alcohol with benzos or using them to alleviate a hangover, that should be in other drugs.

however, i don't think people are saying benzos are miracle drug that solves all your problems like you implied earlier. you're saying benzos are just a temporary escape and that's precisely the point. they are a temporary escape, just like alcohol. it reminds of that quote by homer simpson "beer: now there's a temporary solution".

basically the good thing about alcohol and benzos is that they can provide a temporary solution. however, the bad thing about alcohol and benzos is that they only provide a temporary solution (and if you dip into this temporary solution too much, the problems you're trying to solve only grow).

but i agree that since this is the "alcoholism thread" in the dark side, it should be geared more toward helping people give up alcohol rather than how to make alcoholism more enjoyable. if you're an alcoholic and you're happy with that, go to other drugs.

 

[Spurs_1882]

Breakabeat-

When I talk of minimising harm I mean in terms of how one feels, not physical harm, for example to the liver. Of course taking benzos the day after drinking is not going to be good for your liver. Of course the fact that you have a hangover/withdrawal is a sign that drinking is doing you damage. But it will make you feel better, and my experience is that a long-acting benzodiazepine like valium won't have any rebound effects if you take it infrequently. You don't postpone the hangover, you alleviate some of its component symptoms.

Likewise mixing benzos with alcohol, if done responsibly, can minismise the harm in terms of how you will feel the next day. I am not sure if it is less harmful or not to your body. I think there is a thread in OD about it.

Yes, I am an alcoholic in many ways, although I only drink twice a week at the moment. But perhaps my comments were not appropriate for this thread if it is indeed designed for helping people giving up alcohol. Re-reading what I have written it does seem more like Other Drugs material. So I apologise for that. I was not, however, saying benzos were a fix all solution or recommending long term use. The latter I would certainly recommend against for most people. I was merely mentioning how they have helped me function and feel better whilst still drinking heavily once a week. This is useful for me as I am not looking to change the fact that I do drink heavily once a week. I'm sorry if it came across that I was attempting to give out advice, I was merely recounting my own experiences.