Alcoholism discussion thread v. 5.0

[lurching]

good thread, i found lots of useful info, thanks.

i am 5 weeks without alcohol now.

i worked myself into a heavy habit (25-40 units per day, usually a couple of liter bottles of white wine, and gin). i abused ketamine (very heavily), GHB (heavily) and amphetamines on top of that, as well as smoking lots of weed. roughly one hour after a drink i'd feel the WDs creeping up on me, a horrible feeling. this heavy habit went on for about six months, but i was drinking steadily (10-20 units daily, every day) for years before that. several reasons combined made that steady habit escalate onto 25-40 units p/day.

at the worst point i went to see a doctor. he prescribed me a strong regimen of benzo's and olanzapine (a neuroleptic). with help of the benzo's, (100mg of valium daily on average) i tapered off on my own, at home. stopped the GHB and amphetamines as well. this was a nightmare, with WDs that were excruciating and bizarre, but the benzos helped. then when i was totally dry i managed to taper down the benzos to +-20mg of valium daily, mostly to help me sleep and avoid WDs.

now, without any alcohol in my body, i obviously feel better physically--as someone else wrote in this thread you'll feel a combination of alcohol-poisoning and alcohol-WD when drinking that heavily and regularily.

a horrible depression has surfaced though, complete with suicidal flashes and unexplainable fits of anger or hopelessness, along with the autism-related problems that i've struggled with for all my life (i'm 24 now). alcohol and ghb did a good job of covering up some of those problems but now it's all coming back with a vengeance, of course.

two weeks ago i asked my doc for an SSRI anti-depressant and "pregabalin" (Lyrica), because my mood was so low that i was worrying about myself... the Lyrica helped/helps me A LOT, gives a mood boost that is similar to other GABA drugs but it's quite subtle. i'll gladly become dependent on (lowish doses of) Lyrica for a while, so that i can sort my mess out and wait for the SSRI to start working. i haven't tried baclofen but i can recommend pregabalin/lyrica for post-acute WDs. YMMV.
despite that, i'm still miserable, anhedonic, not enjoying the things i'd enjoy before (even being frustrated or angry with them), feeling foggy like i've done serious chronic damage to my brain, weak and fat but with an unbalanced appetite and no energy, unable and unwilling to form long-term plans (as well as short-term ones), mostly feeling completely devoid of ANY real (let alone a positive) feeling. cheers.

 

[Sepher]

The fact that I've probably done permanent damage to my body makes me just want to drink more, makes me want to give up, because I'm full of regret.

Blahman, Herbavore is correct. This sounds exactly like one of those completely irrational rationalisations our addict brains use as an excuse to keep on with the destructive behaviours: 'I've fucked myself already so what's the point of quitting?' Your last test results came back ok didn't they IIRC, unless I've missed something you've heard back more recently, so not sure what exactly this irreparable damage is that you think you've done? Chances are given your age that whatever damage has been done up to now is repairable and recoverable from, but even if it were true that some lasting damage has been done, it would almost certainly also be true that quitting now would stop any further damage in its tracks. Whatever the circumstances your health will be better in the long term if you quit than it will be if you continue to drink, no question, that's irrefutable, so why the fatalism? Answer is cos your addiction wants you to believe that the game is already lost, cos that's how it keeps itself fed. Don't let it do that to you!

i am 5 weeks without alcohol now . . . .

i'm still miserable, anhedonic, not enjoying the things i'd enjoy before (even being frustrated or angry with them), feeling foggy like i've done serious chronic damage to my brain, weak and fat but with an unbalanced appetite and no energy, unable and unwilling to form long-term plans (as well as short-term ones), mostly feeling completely devoid of ANY real (let alone a positive) feeling. cheers.

Hey Lurching. Don't think we've crossed threads before so welcome to the club!

I'm just over 3 weeks sober and can strongly relate to this. Some of this may be exacerbated by side-effects from the Antabuse, IDK, but whatever, I'm in the exact same place as you at the minute: depressed, frustrated, angry with myself that I'm going through this same old, same old shit again, not eating and sleeping so good so totally lacking in energy and motivation, and struggling at work cos I seem to have this constant brain fog that makes it difficult to concentrate and think properly. All I can tell you is I know from previous experience that at some point my mood and energy levels will lift quite dramatically, and I'll suddenly be a lot brighter and more positive. I'm hoping it follows my previous patterns and kicks in some time over the next coupla weeks. Fingers crossed the same applies for you and things start to clear before too much longer.

In the meantime has your doc mentioned Acamprosate ( Campral ) at all? I've not found it makes much of a noticeable difference for me personally but thought to help with the balance of neurotransmitters put out of whack by the alcohol, it being a GABA agonist for one. Wonder if it's worth discussing with your doc if other GABAergic drugs like Lyrica are proving useful?

 

[blahman8000]

herbavore and Sepher, thank you both so much for your encouragement. Your contributions to this thread have been so valuable.

It's absolutely true that that fatalistic approach about permanent damage often fools addicts like many of us into drinking and using because we give up. And that really is where I'm at. It truly has gotten scary. From what I've read and understand, from people who have experienced what I went through in the hospital (and then continued to do to myself months later when relapsing), it seems that I'm looking at lifelong health issues and perhaps, eventual death. I'm only in my mid-20s and I feel like I haven't really even gotten my life started. I have no career, no more friends, no wife or kids, etc. Reading up on this stuff and looking at what I've clearly done to myself, it's like my life is going to come to an end before I really began it. I failed before I got started. I failed because I drank and used drugs INSTEAD of getting started.

It's like if I quit drinking now, all that will change is that I'll lose my crutch that allows me to face what's coming. Liver cirrhosis is an ugly disease, and it appears that I have it for good. I went to AA meetings and most everyone is more than twice my age and still living their lives, with their families, their careers, their friends, etc. I'm 24 and a few months ago I was staring death in the face. I walked into my first AA meeting with my eyes and skin completely yellow. I go online and look at forums of people suffering from similar health issues that I had (and may encounter worse down the line), and they're all so much older than me and, even through drug and alcohol abuse, have had time to live. I've done this to myself entirely and I feel like I've robbed myself of even a chance. I can't even tell if I'm sick or not anymore. I don't know if a year from now I'll need a liver transplant. I do not know how to live the rest of my life sober. I feel like I've robbed myself of a life just by being such a fucking idiot throughout my early 20s. And that just gets me back into nihilistic drinking behavior. Every drink brings me closer to ending up back in the hospital, and yet every drink gets me further from having to deal with the truth about myself and about my life. It's the most selfish and irrational thing, and I might be beyond a second chance at this point.

I hate posting like this because it probably bums everyone out, but maybe others can look and see what this shit really reduces a person to, and maybe others will spare themselves. Maybe people can read my posts and avoid doing this to themselves.

 

[n3ophy7e]

it's like my life is going to come to an end before I really began it. I failed before I got started. I failed because I drank and used drugs INSTEAD of getting started.
It's like if I quit drinking now, all that will change is that I'll lose my crutch that allows me to face what's coming.

This is absolutely not true blahman, even though it might feel like it is sometimes. My boyfriend is a prime example of how things can turn around. He has been through so many overdoses and other near-death experiences, he really should not be alive. But he's been given chance after chance after chance, and he's still here, and life is now looking pretty fucking sweet for him. So even when you think there is absolutely nothing left, there is always a reason to keep fighting. Your liver is still there, it still has some function, that is better than nothing. Please take care of it. You've got SO MUCH left to offer the world dude. Please don't give up

i am 5 weeks without alcohol now.

Congrats dude, that is awesome. Keep it up!




In 2 days time I will be 5 months sober. I am having a really really hard time keeping shit together though. Alcohol is constantly in my face. I crave it every single day. The last few days I've WOKEN UP craving alcohol. My anxiety is coming back in droves as well. I've abused both xanax and oxycodone this week because I just needed a fucking break.

Isn't it supposed to get easier with time????

 

[michael]

i find that whenever i abuse anything i will start to crave boozing again, and it just starts to seem easier to rationalize a few beers.

 

[Jean-Paul]

to you alcoholics:

is there anything your loved ones can do that actually gets through to your horrible, diseased minds? is there anything anyone can do?

are you ever doing what you're doing on a bender while actually giving a shit about someone, or is it just that you really don't give a shit?

i'm sorry if that is a stupid question.

i have a few feelings on the subject.

 

[n3ophy7e]

your horrible, diseased minds?

is it just that you really don't give a shit?

i have a few feelings on the subject.

Wow.....really???


Quite loaded questions there hun.

Not all alcoholics are hopeless desperate deranged lowlife addicts.

Some of us are so functional that no-one in our lives even KNOW that we have an alcohol addiction. When I had to tell my parents, siblings and closest friends that I was quitting drinking because I'd been an alcoholic for 8 years, it shocked them all. They had absolutely no idea that I had a problem with alcohol, because I'd been hiding it so well for so many years.

But, to answer your question, most of the time it usually has to be the addict's decision to make the necessary changes in their life, and to quit. Otherwise the motivation just isn't behind the decision and they are much less likely to commit to being sober.
All addictions are extremely selfish things, and usually addicts are in immense amounts of emotional pain themselves. So often when they are under the influence of their drug of addiction, no, they probably don't give a shit about the effects of their actions on others. It's just the nature of the disease.

Does that answer your question at all?? Who in your life is an alcoholic? (if I may ask)

 

[motherofearth]

to you alcoholics:

is there anything your loved ones can do that actually gets through to your horrible, diseased minds? is there anything anyone can do?

are you ever doing what you're doing on a bender while actually giving a shit about someone, or is it just that you really don't give a shit?

i'm sorry if that is a stupid question.

i have a few feelings on the subject.

My drinking isn't about others, loved ones or otherwise, and my mind is not "horrible."

So if I drink for myself it should follow I will stop only for myself.

 

[michael]

dude, i gave more shits about my loved ones while on benders than you could ever hope to comprehend.

 

[VanWeyden]

In 2 days time I will be 5 months sober. I am having a really really hard time keeping shit together though. Alcohol is constantly in my face. I crave it every single day. The last few days I've WOKEN UP craving alcohol. My anxiety is coming back in droves as well. I've abused both xanax and oxycodone this week because I just needed a fucking break.

Isn't it supposed to get easier with time????

It's the same for me right now. In the last year I turned my life upside down in the most positive way I could ever hope. For months the idea of getting high didn't even cross my mind. I felt so fucking good. And in the last few weeks I waste more and more time on drug thoughts. I just want to get wasted. Alcohol isn't my doc, I was never addicted to it, and the thought of being drunk isn't something that waters my mouth, not at all. But right now I just want to take a break and shut down for a while.

I promised to myself that I wouldn't start lying to myself and others about my drug use again. But I'm full of intriguing, twisted thoughts right now. I know I could easily call some of my non-addicted or recovering friends, and I guess they would even take the 6-hour drive to visit me if I asked them. But part of me keeps me from doing so. That part wants to kick back and let things take their course until I relapse. And I'm too apathetic to take action now. I should be afraid but I'm not. Fuck.

Sorry if I hijack this thread because I'm not an alcoholic but an opiate/benzo/cannabis addict.

 

[n3ophy7e]

I know I could easily call some of my non-addicted or recovering friends, and I guess they would even take the 6-hour drive to visit me if I asked them. But part of me keeps me from doing so. That part wants to kick back and let things take their course until I relapse.

I can totally relate to this VanWeyden. My friends and family keep inviting me out to things and I keep making excuses to not go, because I'm too depressed, which is of course just making me feel worse because I'm isolating myself. The addict part of my brain is trying to trick me in to thinking that relapse is inevitable so I shouldn't worry about it when it happens. It's telling me that I deserve a break from sobriety because it's been so fucking hard the last couple of weeks.

Not.Good.


Today I have been craving alcohol almost constantly, like, right back to square one kinda shit. Am I not doing this right??

 

[VanWeyden]

Yeah, it keeps telling me: Hey, you're far away from home, you don't take the risk of running into someone who knows about your issues, no one will judge you, just do it. It's a exceptional situation. You can turn get clean again when you are home. Who knows, maybe you can handle drugs better in this new environment. Fuck, as I typed this I realized how stupid and full of shit those excuses are.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Don't let it trick you VanWeyden!! Seriously man, don't let it win you over. You're much stronger than that

 

[Sepher]

to you alcoholics:

is there anything your loved ones can do that actually gets through to your horrible, diseased minds? is there anything anyone can do?

are you ever doing what you're doing on a bender while actually giving a shit about someone, or is it just that you really don't give a shit?

i'm sorry if that is a stupid question.

i have a few feelings on the subject.

Of course I give a shit. I'm hyper-aware of the damage my addiction does to my loved ones, and deeply regret it. What are in reality reasons to stop drinking though are twisted by feelings of worthlessness, guilt, self-pity and self-loathing that no doubt lie at the root of the addiction in the first place, feeding my inner demons and reinforcing the tendency towards ( self- ) destructive behaviours. Distorted, irrational thinking of that sort would tend to be one of the defining characteristics of addiction after all, dontcha think?

 

[alanwatts]

OMG- Here is my entry to this thread-

I haven't driven in over 2 years since my last DUI. Ghastly! I wasn't driving nor was I even in the car when this last one happened. The police busted me anyway. You have no idea what not being able to drive means until it happens to you!

I spent 3 months in JAIL. For a College Graduate, this was the most horrible experience of my life. I'm 48 years old and have been drinking all the while. I think my liver is good as I've taken big breaks and eat good food generally. My next meal is going to be tuna with whole wheat bread! Gotta love that!

Welcome to the Club! Keep it on the down low and take lots of vitamin C!!

 

[alanwatts]

Yikes! I've got a whole bottle of Scope as well as a 4 oz bottle of Vanilla Extract. Those are both loaded with alcohol!
I'm saving the Vanilla for cooking. Saving the Scope for washing out my mouth.

 

[n3ophy7e]

I'm saving the Vanilla for cooking. Saving the Scope for washing out my mouth.

GOOD!! Phew
Welcome to the thread and good job being sober

 

[alanwatts]

Have you ever smelled the extract of vanilla? It's pure magic! I don't want to drink that stuff for
anything. Having read some of the horrors of this thread it makes me aware of how much I have to loose.
Alcohol is simply a poison. If you don't know that you're just a baby. Leave it alone!

 

[alanwatts]

I'm 48 and have had the shakes on occasion, and extreme dreams. I've had dreams where I've been flying. Those on occasion have been very enjoyable, but are frightening in the end equation. I've been laying off from Alcohol for the last few days. Taking lots of Vitamin C and Water. Can't go wrong there! Lots of good fruits and veggies like Nectarines too!

Love myself better than you- What should I do? NIRVANA

 

[jspun]

Comming off a 1 year alcohol relapse. Relapsed 3 weeks shy of 3 years clean. Was using mostly heroin and coke and tweak secondarily, but heroin was my love. 6 Years MMT with max dose of 135 mg- took 1 year to get there and 5 to taper- but was chipping on top towards then end. Drinked through protracted opiate withdrawl like a fish before and after my daughter was born. My using career is long and colorful but this time hurt back- norco- started using wifes subs, ostensibly because I was depressed- had a catastrophic day at work- bought a 6 pack and it was on. Didn't drink during my 3 day a week 12 hour shifts but drank on my mornings off - then spent all day at the bar- and I'm shocked I didn't get a DUI- 2 very close calls.

Blahman- Long story short- my EtOH effected my relationship with my wife and 4 year old daughter. I was getting tremors at work (were I need a steady hand to start IVs).
When I went in for a physical my LFTs were high- My ALT was 240 and AST was 200 and I forget what my AlK Phos was but my liver was shot- this was back in april. I gained 50 lbs. I would take cimetidine to prevent GI bleeds and kick in my benzos. Cimetidine and EtOH both prevent the absorption of magnesium. This can cause Torsades de pointes- a potentially lethal cardiac rhythm. I'd feel my heart racing so I'd take beta blockers and mag suplements. Smoked dispesary weed and hash the first 6 months and quit- scared I was gonna lose my job. One day my 4 year old who would rarely hug me and would mad dog me came up to me and huged me saying "daddy I love you more than you think I do." Finally on 7/12/12 I got sober. By then I was peeing amber blood tinged urine, passing clay colored stools, and bleeding like a stuck pig- itching alot. My BP was sky high for my age.

Now I'm 35 days sober. Had to get the shit beat outta me. But my health, which took a year to destroy has radically improved. I have zero will power. What worked for me has been AA and I have a sponsor in mind. Last week I paddled out and surfed for the first time in 18 months- my cardiovascular system was able to handle it and surfing I believe will help keep me sober. This time I believe that meetings will not in and of themselves, nor my support group but doing the deal (aka the steps) and through action enacting a change in my thinking. I found a sponsor he just doesn't know it yet (he offered to sponsor me last week- told him I had to think about it.)

Van Weyden you make a good point, when you take the action to write things down its easier to see our flawed thinking. We or I'll speak for myself, have a disease involving insane, irrational, maladaptive thinking. As I've heard it said you can't think yourself into better living, you have to live (take action) yourself into better thinking.

I haven't used Nicotine in 5 years or smoked cigarettes in 8 years but i'd have to say that alcohol despite conventional wisdom is by far the worst drug. What a barbaric, toxic drug it is.

N3ophy7E It sounds like you are in a bad space based on my experience. I was in the same type of head space before I relapsed. What has kept you sober these last 5 months?- congrats by the way. I can relate with the isolation. The antidote is not to isolate and force yourself to be with sober people. I was isolating before relapse and was miserable.

Now at work I have to contend with the reputation of liking to drink and have people comming up saying we all have to go out and party...I'm being evasive and using the excuse that I am not drinking because I have to lose weight and b/c of my metoprolol. And i have lost alot of the puffyness involved with drinking. The boys at work ( we hang together because we work in a female dominated occupation), have other excursions in mind too- an idea originated by me during my drinking episode that sounds like a totally fucking stupid idea now that I'm sober- but would rather not get in to.

Sorry for the long rant but again I am sober 35 days, I am happy and at peace wereas I was miserable for the most part of the last year. My daughter, coming on 5 years old tells me she loves me every day. My marriage has improved somewhat and I'm surfing again. I can focus more clearly at work too.

Anyway with meetings 2 things- if your young (like 20s and 30s) check out young peoples meetings and if you have trouble with God don't trip- no one is gonna force anything down your throat. Or if they do its quite permisible to politely tell them to fuck off in a loving and gentle way.

But I'm gonna keep posting on BL- I'm always gonna have this morbid fascination with drugs and I cherish the friends I made here, especially in EADD. Plus I realy believe in harm reduction and am a militant antiprohibitionist.

I better shut up less anyone thinks I replaced alcohol with tweak- I'm still not sleeping too good.