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Alcoholism discussion thread v. 5.0

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Blahman, I'm very glad to hear you're doing better than you have been, you were starting to worry me there! I've been doing a little bit better myself. But the beast seems to never really leave. I'm not sober so I won't even pretend to say that I am. But I've been keeping my drinking to friday and saturday. Sometime's I'll have a wed/thurs fuckup. I've seemed to get past that "I can't stop drinking until I'm comatose" feeling, except for one exception where I couldn't stop drinking rum until I blacked out. The gripping anxiety, cravings, and insomnia have left for the most part.

My real issue is that I haven't truly faced and overcome this raging beast inside me. I've simply replaced alcohol with klonopin, ativan, speed, and oxy's during the week. Without the klonopin I take at night (klonopin has a long half life so I feel it's effects for most of the next day also), I feel like I'd be just as bad as I was. The only reason I'm not craving so bad and drinking every night is because I'm leveled and chilled out for most of the day. And I have truly opened a scary fucking bag of worms with this one, because benzo's are just as bad if not worse withdrawal then alcohol. And I've been on benzos for long enough that I know the day will come when I have to experience that hell.

I'm terrified to let go of my benzo crutch, because I still feel like I haven't gotten rid of my alcohol crutch. It seems these days my life carries some kind of false sense of well being, because I feel fine most days, even after drinking heavily on the weekends. But underneath it all I still feel like the same alcoholic that would pop a shit ton of klons, dxm, drink 2 bottles of wine, and go into a blind rage punching holes in the bathroom wall. Alcohol may be my main poison, but I've relied on too much of a crutch, and I'm in for a long terrible fall before it's all said and done.
 
Comingback do you have any long term effects from using benzo's so extensively? Cognitively, mentally, motor skills, etc. What benzo do you use and what kind of dosage is it? I imagine it's pretty damn high.

My worry is just that benzo's are like dry alcohol, so I mean in a sense it's like being tipsy without drinking. And being an alcoholic I think it would just sustain my addiction, because they are cross tolerant.

PS: I'm not looking for anyone to tell me "Hey dude don't fuck with benzo's or replacement drugs they're terrible theyll fuck you up as bad as alc." I know I'm on a slippery slope just like everyone else is. I'm merely explaining my situation. Thanks!
 
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Sepher said:
Oh, and quick update as promised earlier: Day two, no booze, and counting. ;) Craving comes and goes, some pretty powerful, but nothing I can't handle. The overwhelming feeling today is one of relief. :)
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Excellent to hear, Sepher :) Keep it up!! <3


Thought I'd give a quick update of my own:
I have been sober for 4 months and 10 days. I am still taking naltrexone daily and will continue to do so for another few months. I haven't really been officially keeping track of my sober time. I find it helps me more to just put my head down and deal with my day-to-day life rather than to acknowledge and herald each day/week/month of my sobriety. Every now and then I look back on the calendar and count up how long it's been since I had a drink. I am still experiencing a lot of cravings, which sucks. BUT I am much more equipped to deal with them effectively, and I am also now quite confident that I can always work through cravings without resorting to drinking. As I keep saying to myself, "I got this". :)
 
New member jumping in here. Hope I'm not going to take things off topic, break any rules, and offend anyone.

First, from the little I've read on this thread I'm a total "lightweight". Never been to rehab, no bar fights, DUIs, etc. People definitely knew I didn't know when to stop, but I remained pretty much functional to the outside world.

The only place I couldn't keep my problem unexposed was in my marriage. I got away with hiding it sometimes but eventually it got outta hand. I couldn't wait for my time alone so that I could rush to the store, grab 2 6 packs of 60 minute IPA, and chug those things before the wife came home. The blackouts were becoming more & more frequent, partially to blame on the diabetes. The wife had enough and threatened to leave. Three months into our first pregnancy.

Went to a local AA meeting the day I quit. I have a good deal of social anxiety (which the alcohol of course relieved me of). My first meeting was fairly small and I wasn't asked to say much other than my name. The next one I tried however was very large and I was on the verge of a panic attack as I feared having to introduce myself in front of the large audience. I decided that I'd need to preload with benzos and beta blockers if I was going to keep going to these things. So I did.

After about a month I saw "hypocrisy" in what I was doing, so I stopped going to meetings. I couldn't buy into the 'religious' aspect. I'm too much of a thinker. What's alcohol but another drug? Solution: stop drinking alcohol. I began to identify myself not as an alcoholic, but as a non-drinker. After all, everything is drug, right? My anti-depressant stack, anti-anxiety pills, insulin, caffeine...these were all acceptable and required to function. I just needed to find myself something to replace the intoxication that alcohol provided.

So onward to finding something else I went. Haven't had a drink in 2.5 years, but I can sure say that I haven't been cured of the need to abuse substances. I really don't think there is a "cure" for me. All I've done is substitution. I'm just hoping that whatever experimenting I do doesn't turn into something as seducing as alcohol. That bitch has got to be one of the nastiest drugs out there.
 
Hi come2city, firstly welcome to Bluelight :)
Thanks so much for sharing your story with us. 2.5 years with no alcohol is fucking awesome!! I sincerely hope that I can say the same thing in about 2 years time. Keep it up <3
What other substances do you experiment with? Also, how is your marriage these days, if you don't mind me asking?
 
shroomyboom said:
Comingback do you have any long term effects from using benzo's so extensively? Cognitively, mentally, motor skills, etc. What benzo do you use and what kind of dosage is it? I imagine it's pretty damn high.

My worry is just that benzo's are like dry alcohol, so I mean in a sense it's like being tipsy without drinking. And being an alcoholic I think it would just sustain my addiction, because they are cross tolerant.

PS: I'm not looking for anyone to tell me "Hey dude don't fuck with benzo's or replacement drugs they're terrible theyll fuck you up as bad as alc." I know I'm on a slippery slope just like everyone else is. I'm merely explaining my situation. Thanks!
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My average is 8mg-10mg KPINs daily, but sometimes I do more. As well as occasional xanax or valium.

*snip*
Do not post detailed, triggering information in this forum again. ~ Vaya

I still have a cross tolerance with alcohol now, or I'd need to take more. 10-20 drinks nightly. As I said I've been at it for 10 years and between as needed. I am 100% CNS depressant dependant and very comfortable with death.

Weed and Opiates come occasionally as long as those needs are met. The monkey on my back talks to me constantly. I've become friends with my demons.
 
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Checking in. Seems like a lot of us are sticking to staying dry or at least cutting down, which I'm glad to see. Happy to hear from you on here, n3o, and I'm glad you're staying sober. Congrats on 4+ months! You definitely seem to be in good spirits and confident in remaining sober. I admire your strength and it gives me hope that this thing can be beaten.

shroomyboom - Thanks for the feedback. Glad you're keeping you're drinking down to the weekends. Regarding benzos and other pills, I have times where I crave pills that I used to do (amphetamines, benzos, oxy's). I do think that there's plenty to be said about the benefits of benzo use. For instance, I think if I were more responsible and moderate, I could benefit from a short term trial with them while I try to get my life back together. But personally, I just find them to easy to abuse. I did have a doctor who helped me switch from alcohol to benzos, but I ended up just using them the same way I used the bottle (WAY too much).

come2city - Congrats on 2.5 years! That's a hell of an inspiration. Good for you. I definitely agree that alcohol is a fucked up, nasty drug, that has nearly destroyed me completely. I've had doctors tell me that I can't undo some of the damage that alcohol has done, and I simply have to live with it for the rest of my life. In that sense, I often convince myself that a substitute for alcohol is just what I need. Unfortunately, that never seems to work out well in my case. Also, AA isn't for everyone. I'm thinking of giving it another shot, but I didn't get much out of the experience the first time around. Have you tried any other programs regarding substance abuse in general? I've heard good things about Rational Recovery. Addiction itself can be applied to a wide variety of things. For instance, I find that calling myself an alcoholic, though accurate, is really neglecting the true issue: that I'm an addict in general, and have a problem of just switching from one drug to another.

I'm just closing out day 4, and it's been a pretty wild day. I've pretty much learned that I really cannot drink, probably ever again, and not just for the sake of avoiding a relapse, but also because my body won't be able to withstand it, for a number of reasons. This has given me a really helpless feeling. No more can I binge for a night and drink away a bad day(s). And things don't seem to be going very well. I had a plan to get my life back on track, involving school and leading up to a good job, but that pretty much came crashing down today and it's an impossibility. I simply don't have the money to get started. My health is still rather poor right now, and a doctor put me on a VERY strict diet until I can recover (and I don't even know if I will).

I had a number of plans that I felt excited about, that motivated me to quit drinking more than anything. But now that I've quit drinking, these plans seem to be becoming unrealistic because of different circumstances. Things are already not working out. I'm pretty much back where I had started, except now I can't even relapse if I wanted to. I wanted to move out of my house somehow because it's such a toxic environment for me, but I can't because of my worsening physical condition. I wanted to go to a nearby school but it turns out I really, really underestimated the tuition costs, and could never afford it, even with financial aid. I'm looking really hard for some hope and optimism but it's just not happening. However, I'm still staying sober. I do technically have a "choice" to drink if I really wanted to. I've drank under the dumbest and harmful circumstances, and sustained more and more damage and wasted more time. Unfortunately, I can see myself being that stupid again if I don't stay on top of things. I've worn out all my chances to give into that "FUCK IT" instinct and just drinkdrinkdrink until I black out. I pissed away every bit of drinking afforded to my life, in a matter of a few years. That's my life, I did it to myself, and I'm living it now. And now I just wonder, wouldn't it have been nice if I had gotten a flash of the possibility of thing winding up like this, back when I was a teenager, and realized that I need to stop going down the road I was on. I guess I had to find out the hard way.

With that said, I'm officially moving onto day 5.
 
Does everyone get the shakes and dementia from drinking heavy (I mean if everyone drank long enough) will you get both for sure?

I drank for years (on and off) heavy and never got them then after like just one month of extra heavy drinking I got hit so hard with bolth it destroyed me..... I never understand to this day how that happened... I mean I drank for like 6years strait at night with no issues... then after a clean break and coming back to it after one month it about killed me.... does dementia come from a build up of something in your brain? is the shakes related to your liver? any info just curious to understand
 
^ All good questions, but I'm not sure if anyone is going to have an answer for you.
 
Sickness, I wonder if it's a kindling thing. It's generally true for lots of users I think that each time they go through alcohol withdrawal the symptoms are worse than the time before, so maybe you could have a long period of chronic use and find withdrawal symptoms non-existent or pretty mild, then after a shorter period of heavy use suddenly find symptoms are a lot worse. It's not the liver that's responsible for the symptoms, no. It's to do with alcohol's effect on brain chemistry and ( mainly GABA ) receptors in the brain.

As for is it inevitable that you get shakes and dementia, etc, no, I don't think it is. I've seen estimates that as few as 5% of heavy drinkers / alcoholics suffer from full on DTs and I've certainly never suffered anything like it after years of heavy boozing. Worst I've ever had is sleep disturbances and just feeling generally edgy and irritable for a few days, like today, today being day 4 sober. :)

N3o, really good to see you doing so good. Pleased for you and proud of ya! And hey come2city, welcome to BL / TDS and all that. :)
 
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^Blahman, cheers on day 5. :)Remember that life is really long. My mom went back to get her BA when she was 38 with three young kids. She went on to get a masters and then a PHD (go Doctor mom!). She says that she wouldn't have been ready to make it meaningful at an earlier age so she ended up being glad that circumstances conspired against her doing it at the "normal" age for most americans. Concentrate on that sobriety and getting peace in your life and everything else will be so much easier. Don't let anyone's outside opinion of what you are "doing" with your life get inside your own head. It's a narrow, self-defeating view and your job, your path, right now is saving your own life and finding serenity. I challenge anybody that is just going to college because that's the prescribed path to top that in importance or value.<3

Hey, Sepher!:)<3
 
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Blahman said:
I had a number of plans that I felt excited about, that motivated me to quit drinking more than anything. But now that I've quit drinking, these plans seem to be becoming unrealistic because of different circumstances. Things are already not working out. I'm pretty much back where I had started, except now I can't even relapse if I wanted to. I wanted to move out of my house somehow because it's such a toxic environment for me, but I can't because of my worsening physical condition. I wanted to go to a nearby school but it turns out I really, really underestimated the tuition costs, and could never afford it, even with financial aid. I'm looking really hard for some hope and optimism but it's just not happening.
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Blahman, give it some time. You're 5 days sober mate. You're mood is inevitably gonna be all over the place and your addict mind is gonna try its best to help you rationalise your way to a drink. Playing on the negativity thing is one of its most powerful weapons against your rational mind's desire for sobriety right now. I have a feeling things won't look quite so bleak once you've had time to adjust and start to experience a bit more of a positive outlook. There are often more ways and means to an end than first appears - we just sometimes have to look a little harder for the options. Like, even if this school is out cos no way to finance, are there other avenues that would get you to the place you're aiming for? One things for sure: you'll not achieve any of the things you're hankering after if you relapse. There's the real negative outlook to be dwelling on right now. ;)

Coming to the end of day 4. Rough day at work, just really wound up and out of sorts, cravings pretty strong. Probably partly down to adjusting to being sober, partly down to it being Friday and Friday is massive binge night usually. Felt better mood-wise at least once I was home but fell asleep on the sofa and woke up from dreams about vodka with mad intense cravings. I'd have caved for sure without the Antabuse. I was half-way getting up and out the door to the off-licence when I remembered I'm on the meds and I can't bloody drink on the stuff! 8) Antabuse 1, Booze 0. :) Party at the end of my street, music been pumping out all afternoon / evening. I've been waiting for it to kick off all night. It always does, it's that kinda street. Spilled over into the streets just as I began typing this 10 minutes ago, thought it was gonna get properly violent for a while, but quietening off. Good thing about a street full of alcoholics and chronic drug users: there's a constant reminder of what my future looks like if I don't sort this out. Kinda sobering. ;)

And Herb? Hey back atcha! <3 :D
 
Thanks for the encouragement, Sepher, and I'm glad to see you're staying sober as well. It's good that the Antabuse is doing it's job. The drunk dreams can definitely be rough, but they can also be a reminder that a relapse would not be worth it. I've often found myself relieved waking up from dreams of getting drunk, realizing that I'm still sober. And yeah, things like you saw on the street are definitely reminders of the possible alternatives to staying sober. It's very cool that you've got your mind in the right place and sticking with this. Gives me hope that the rest of us can, as well.

I saw the doctor and it turns out that my liver is in okay shape (certainly not "good" shape but it's functioning). They're not sure whether or not I have or will develop cirrhosis overtime due to my previous drinking, and were pretty unclear about it. However, my liver is not failing. My pancreas also appears to be functioning normally. The doctor wasn't particularly helpful, but at the same time, all he had to work with were liver function tests. There was no ultrasound to get a better look. My stomach, on the other hand, is apparently pretty banged up, probably from not only the booze but all the coffee I've had over the past few months. He put me on a "BRAT" diet, meaning I can ONLY eat bananas, rice, apples/apple sauce, and toast for two weeks. This is definitely not mixing well with my alcohol cravings. Normally food is the most helpful thing for me to fend off cravings for booze. Now I've got cravings for both. But I guess cravings no longer matter, when it comes to booze. I can't drink ever again for the rest of my life. My body and mind can't handle it anymore. I spoiled any chance of enjoying alcohol for my whole life and I'm not even halfway through my 20s. And admittedly, a part of me is already wondering what other drugs I can still use, that I can still physically tolerate. There are probably none. I think about the damage I've done to my liver and wonder if I can even treat my ADHD ever again, even with responsible consumption. I wonder if my liver can even handle anti-depressants.
 
I've just opened a letter I got that I was hoping would be my blood test results. It's just a brochure for an addiction support group which won't have a meeting here until Thursday. I'm still drinking daily, almost all day long. I thought I was getting the better of it as I've had a couple of nights with a few hours of contiguous sleep. This morning I woke and tried to hold on/go back to sleep but I was rattling a bit and feeling really sorry for myself and in the end I started drinking about 7:30 am. I had a bottle of vodka and a bottle of wine by the side of the bed for such purposes. When I start to run out tonight I'm gonna go to the pub and grab some cheap Wetherspoons scran and a couple of beers, then get more booze from the supermarket to keep in my room tonight and the cycle will probably continue tomorrow. It's such a shit waste of a life, but I guess you people can identify. :-/
 
Just tried to have an hours sleep 'cos I thought it might sort my mood out. I couldn't rest my mind and just ended up having a little cry into my pillow instead. Fuck this, I'm just gonna keep on drinking and listen to morose music. :(
 
I feel alright now, for the time being. Fucking alcoholic moodswings! One minute you can be in complete despair and then an hour later quite good. A couple of Steely Dan albums have cheered me up somewhat. :)
 
LaserHosen, learning to get through those that initial shock of depression and anxiety without booze when you're sobering up is key to busting out of that cycle. When you get drunk again in that state, all you're doing is not only just putting off inevitably arriving at that state of mind again, but you're worsening it when it finally comes around. There will come a time when you'll have to face these things sober and basically feel like you're in hell, but for me, walking through hell was the way out. Alcohol has a way of building up so much despair that you won't necessarily detect while you're still drunk, and it can go on for months, years, etc. Not that you don't already seem to understand this by now. But it's important to stop what you're doing so that it doesn't continue to get out of control. Drinking in the morning was routine for me, and it would carry on throughout every single day. I'd be terrified of running out of alcohol, no matter what time it was or what plans I had, because I'd have to face that feeling of hopelessness. I kept putting it off, these feelings that existed and needed to be faced, and wasted years of my life and did a lot of damage. Sobering up is not easy by any means, but it's more than worth it and it's the only sustainable outcome.

Sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing, this is honestly just advice that I hope you consider. Maybe you should check out that support group from that brochure you got in the mail. Maybe that came just in time. Try to at least cut down on alcohol. Maybe find a friend or a doctor help you out with a taper, if you don't feel capable of quitting all at once. It sounds like you're recognizing what alcohol is doing to your mind and it's establishing a cycle that you want out of. There's definitely help out there, and sobering up is the best thing you can do for yourself.
 
Cheers blahman. I totally agree with what you say about continuing to use just to get through certain things in the day. I'm so nervous about being shakey and sweaty I think to myself "i'll just have a couple of drinks, then meet so and so then i'll dry out". But it ends up that I do what I was supposed to do, then I get back to my room and I'm so full of anxiety that I say to myself I need to reward myself.

In short, I hear your advice and I hope to ease this cycle of abuse right off over the next couple of days.
 
I tried lots of legal substances I could find online. The only one that I found to fill the urge to be intoxicated at the end of the day was kratom. Now I'm in no way recommending kratom usage. From what I read on the forums its highly addictive for some people. For me, I find it to be sort of self-regulating. The taste is awful -- you pretty much have to force it down. I found that you I couldn't binge on it. If you have too much the only effect that gets more intense is the nausea.

For a good 2 years straight I used anywhere from 12-16 grams of it at least 6 nights weekly, with the only exception being when I went out of town or was in between orders. There wasn't much a physical addiction, but the psychological part was definitely there. I headed straight for it as soon as I came home from work, grabbed a seltzer water, and started to toss & wash. One of my son's first facial expressions was the face I made when I swallowed it.

Its unlikely that kratom alone kept me off the sauce. I had to make some immediate changes to my surrounding. That first month in AA did really help. It kept me away from the sight of alcohol. I withdrew myself from all social activities involving alcohol at work, which was hard to do. If certain situations couldn't be avoided, I benzo'd up.

As for the marriage...almost all of the big fights we had surrounded my drinking. Those stopped immediately. She accepted my kratom use, but I don't think she realized how strong the effects were (I'm very adept at hiding things). What has suffered the most in our relationship since I've stopped drinking is the passion. The sex is almost non-existent, and when it does happen it feels very forced and awkward. This has led to other problems in our relationship, but I suppose we have both come to realize that its an either/or situation.

Earlier this year I found that I have access to pretty much any drug out there. Since then I've been doing other experiments, which are heavily backed with reading Wikipedia, reports from erowid, and posts from forums like BL and others. The first one was with MDMA. During my first use I basically had a 30 minute psychotherapy session with myself in the mirror. Part of it involved admitting to myself that kratom was wasting my life. There were other negative things that I hide from my wife that I confronted...cigarettes & porn, mostly. I didn't quit the smoking & porn, but after just that one time on E I did see how stupid the kratom was. I finished the last of it the next day and haven't ordered any since.

OK, this is getting long so I'll stop here. I really wish I had some words of wisdom to the folks having a hard time making it through their 1st day of sobriety. The most powerful thing for me whenever I battle an addiction is setting. My first few days I spent pondering how much easier it would be if I could have just taken a few month exchange program to Saudi Arabia or some place where alcohol is no where to be found. Easier said than done.

Hang in there everybody. Thanks for listening.
 
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