alcoholics anonymous-- do you think tripping would change AA members mindsets?

[yougeekay]

so im on probation and part of the conditions are that i do treatment, and part of my treatment wanted me to go to outside meetings like NA an AA so ive been attending them and ive noticed something.

i hate to stereotype or talk down on people but AA meetings seem so (an i hate to usethis word) pathetic. i really think if these people just had a crazy lsd trip they wouldnt be so consumed by the thought of drinking, it just seems like such a waste of an existence to be a slave to alcohol, an these people really fight an i mean fight to overcome their alcoholism. i just find these people so weak, its sad. i feel like an asshole thinking this stuff too but its jsut how i feel. like even when they are sober they still go to these meetings and dwell on the fact that they are alcoholics 'for life' when there is so much more to dwell on, like the universe .

anyone else think psycs would make people at AA meetings realize how rediculous they are.

 

[hobhead]

"anyone else think psycs would make people at AA meetings realize how rediculous they are."

that is a naive question . plenty of the mutts that go to AA also go to NA meetings because they have abused multiple intoxicants, psychedelics included .

i hate loathed the meetings but did not judge the people unless they were fucking rude to me .

 

[yougeekay]

yes but i feel like people that are alcoholics dont really get into psycs because they are more of the tweaker type just out to party, then they realize that they are a piece of shit forty years later an wanna grow some emotions.

im so terrible, i shouldnt be judging this way but its just how they come off at these things.

 

[Raw Evil]

anyone else think psycs would make people at AA meetings realize how rediculous they are.

There was a study done at one point where alcoholics were given LSD, and apparently the result was that most of them were freed of their addiction. I'll see if I can dig up a link tonight - its probably on Erowid if you want to find it yourself.

 

[drewmandan]

I think it might have been mentioned in that documentary about the guy that invented LSD.

 

[yougeekay]

There was a study done at one point where alcoholics were given LSD, and apparently the result was that most of them were freed of their addiction. I'll see if I can dig up a link tonight - its probably on Erowid if you want to find it yourself.

no ive heard that, it was like 90% effective, compared to like 15% AA meetings haha.

 

[Changed]

I drink quite a bit socially. I don't think I'm an alcoholic, as I don't crave a drink when I'm alone or any of that shit, but I'm thinking about drinking some ayahuasca at the end of the summer with the intention of putting my alcohol-consumption to rest. I'm thinking a long trip focused on such a task would heal most alcoholics (or any substance abuse users) quicker than AA and without so much shame involved either.

 

[PhillyPsychonaut]

Seeing as you are on probation, you should take these meetings seriously. Keep living the way you do and chances are that you will be in a terrible addiction, jail, or possibly even dead (don't know what your DOC is, but if they're making you go to the meetings, chances are it is an addictive substance). I'm a recovering addict and have never been on probation or in trouble with the law, but I still know I am an addict and need something to help me that isn't myself. Not everybody there is a sad depressed alcoholic/drug addict who thinks about using all day, but the one thing they do have in common is that they want to stay clean from their addictions. AA/NA is just there to help people meet others with their problems and help each other out; that's why it is called a Fellowship. Talk to some people who actually have some time in the program, and they aren't a slave to their addiction. I would call them more of a slave to their recovery, because they know what they're doing and it seems as though they are doing it right.

I know some addicts who have tried to use psychedelics to get off of drugs, and most did not succeed (me included). I tried a good amount of tryptamines and phens, but none helped me understand why I used, how to stop, and how to stay sober. For some it may differ, but if you're getting in trouble with the law, I'd take a long hard look at yourself and try to see what you did wrong to be in you situation. That's what treatment is for too, but for some it may take a long time to realize they have a problem.

 

[crazynate:]]

This is a funny topic... I recently started going to NA and they don't talk much about it, but it's known that people in NA think that people in AA are stuck up, in a sense.

 

[yougeekay]

Seeing as you are on probation, you should take these meetings seriously. Keep living the way you do and chances are that you will be in a terrible addiction, jail, or possibly even dead (don't know what your DOC is, but if they're making you go to the meetings, chances are it is an addictive substance). I'm a recovering addict and have never been on probation or in trouble with the law, but I still know I am an addict and need something to help me that isn't myself. Not everybody there is a sad depressed alcoholic/drug addict who thinks about using all day, but the one thing they do have in common is that they want to stay clean from their addictions. AA/NA is just there to help people meet others with their problems and help each other out; that's why it is called a Fellowship. Talk to some people who actually have some time in the program, and they aren't a slave to their addiction. I would call them more of a slave to their recovery, because they know what they're doing and it seems as though they are doing it right.

I know some addicts who have tried to use psychedelics to get off of drugs, and most did not succeed (me included). I tried a good amount of tryptamines and phens, but none helped me understand why I used, how to stop, and how to stay sober. For some it may differ, but if you're getting in trouble with the law, I'd take a long hard look at yourself and try to see what you did wrong to be in you situation. That's what treatment is for too, but for some it may take a long time to realize they have a problem.

im on probation for a quarter pound of weed, im fine.

and i see where your coming from.

 

[nearjat]

yes but i feel like people that are alcoholics dont really get into psycs because they are more of the tweaker type just out to party, then they realize that they are a piece of shit forty years later an wanna grow some emotions.

im so terrible, i shouldnt be judging this way but its just how they come off at these things.

I understand where you're coming from man, and I'm in AA. I'm still down with using psychedelics but I have a huge problem managing my life while using most other types of drugs. AA is a massive fellowship of people who can't handle their chemicals, and the members vary greatly. I've met total dickheads, and some of my closest friends in AA and treatment.

A lot of psychedelic users, including myself, pride themselves on the idea of having an open mind. So just open it a bit more man, if you just get past some of the vocabulary, the 12 steps are a great program that you can apply to many aspects of your life. The second step says some shit about finding a higher power and at first I was like "fucking christian shit damnit fuck", but later realized that my higher power could be the oneness of the universe and all the other fun stuff I actually found with psyches as a catalyst.

And with the whole "heal my addiction with psyches" thing, yeah it sometimes happens that way, but outside of clinical applications it rarely comes about deliberately. In the past, those type of thoughts were just more of my addiction. I wanted to use more chemicals to solve the problems I caused with chemicals.

and without so much shame involved either.

It's not so much shame as just being extremely honest with yourself. A lot of peoples drug use is problematic without them knowing it at all. Even things as small as not attending a family function in order to use a drug is problematic in my eyes. I know that personally, if I don't look back on my heavy using days and honestly recognize everything I did that was self-seeking and just downright shitty, I'll never understand why I cant just use some drugs as a casual user.

 

[PhillyPsychonaut]

Damn, they really make you go to treatment and meetings for weed...unless you think you have a problem with marijuana, I'd just try to make the best of the meetings. The only people I really see in the rooms that are stuck with their addiction and depressed are the newcomers, the ones who don't realize that they are powerless over their addiction and keep relapsing. These are the ones who don't work the program.

Plus I'd like to see that article about the addicts given the LSD and being freed of their addiction. I just can't believe that. I can't even see how Ibogaine works for addiction, because the trip does end, and it doesn't physically alter the mind to forget about the feelings and high of the drugs. Baffles me, but I'd rather fight an addiction without drugs. I won't even go near Suboxone or Methadone because it is just another crutch IMHO. Why get gastric bypass when you can work the weight off yourself...that's how I think about it.

 

[Clusterone666]

There was a study done at one point where alcoholics were given LSD, and apparently the result was that most of them were freed of their addiction. I'll see if I can dig up a link tonight - its probably on Erowid if you want to find it yourself.

Oh i've read that same report, i was telling my dad about it (Who is an alcoholic) and i offered him some LSD, sadly didn't go so well, but I read up on that too. The facts on it were suprising and amazing.

 

[hobhead]

what a nonsensical notion : acid and such stopping a boozer !
when i was court remanded to the fucking awful meetings i was as always drinking and dropping acid, peyote buttons and everything i could get my hands on .

my son who is trying to quit smack is now working in the Dream House in mexico . Ibogain is the organic equivalent to all the new age crystals, chakras, reiki, etc. the recovery industry will liberate you from your $$ and not even give you a kiss .

as in all things it is a decision to change behavior that needs to be made by the abuser/addict .
Rational Recovery's take on addiction rings true by my lights . not a disease but just caving into the primitive part of the brain that wants gratification no matter the consequences and not the higher executive function up top .

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ I agree that it's not a magic bullet of a cure, but you can't discount the reports of ibogaine working for people dramatically well. It's also a fact that it temporarily blocks opiate withdrawal.

It sounds like you were using psychedelics with the mindset of getting fucked up and partying (correct me if I'm wrong). Which is fine - but it's possible to use them for serious purposes as well. Just because someone's experience doesn't match with your own doesn't mean they're wrong.

There have been studies done regarding using LSD to treat alcoholics. I hope someone has the link handy and posts it so you can take a look. There's a lot of potential for psychedelics in medicine, most in the psychotherapeutic arena. As you say, it is the decision of the use to change their behavior. That's absolutely true, and the reason psychedelics CAN be useful for this is because such a powerful experience has the potential, when guided correctly either by yourself or others or both, to help you to reach understanding or different viewpoints. I don't think anyone is trying to say that if you pop a tab of LSD on your tongue and go about your day, or party it up with friends, you'll suddenly be free of addiction. At least I'm not trying to say that.

 

[stuckinaloop]

so im on probation and part of the conditions are that i do treatment, and part of my treatment wanted me to go to outside meetings like NA an AA so ive been attending them and ive noticed something.

i hate to stereotype or talk down on people but AA meetings seem so (an i hate to usethis word) pathetic. i really think if these people just had a crazy lsd trip they wouldnt be so consumed by the thought of drinking, it just seems like such a waste of an existence to be a slave to alcohol, an these people really fight an i mean fight to overcome their alcoholism. i just find these people so weak, its sad. i feel like an asshole thinking this stuff too but its jsut how i feel. like even when they are sober they still go to these meetings and dwell on the fact that they are alcoholics 'for life' when there is so much more to dwell on, like the universe .

anyone else think psycs would make people at AA meetings realize how rediculous they are.

this is the reason that aa people want to seperate them selves from na people. because people like you talk and look down on them like their addiction isnt real.

pretty dick-ish if you ask me

have you ever met a fuckin alcoholic dude?

 

[Solipsis]

Sorry, don't think this is PD material so moved it