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Alcohol Vs. Hard Drugs

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PurpleKush1 said:
me too. pleassssssse somebody close this thread!
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If you believe that alcohol is a hard drug because of it's withdrawal symptoms, or because of the overall burden which alcohol puts on society due to the fact that so many people alcohol it in comparison to other drugs, then I am not going to argue or disagree with you anymore. Foreigner has stated this correctly. And I totally agree with him.

All of my repetitive comments about "moderate drinking" and "alcohol taking a very long time to become physically addicted to" only take into account alcohol's physical health effects for some users, not the overall harm upon society which alcohol inflicts (such as car accidents, crimes which people commit while drunk).

I have highlighted Foreigner's most important statements about this topic.

The danger potential of drugs is not just determined by their effects on the body, but the total societal burden. In terms of damage to person and property (violence, accidental injury, mechanical accidents, insurance claims, etc.), legal retribution, and deaths, alcohol is the worst offender per capita. Heroin and methamphetamine are surely hazardous and addictive when abused, but they account for a minuscule amount of the societal burden.

Moderate alcohol intake may not necessarily have the most addiction potential, but it still results in more violence and property damage than any other drug. There is also the fact that alcoholism has a higher recidivism rate because it is legal and easily obtained, has a widespread culture of approval, and it is heavily connected to human socialization. So, we can quibble about how alcohol is not necessarily immediately addictive, but if you ARE addicted to alcohol, it is, in many cases, a lot harder to get away from temptation. Heroin and meth have more physically addictive potential, but they do not have the nod of approval from society, so once you get clean you are not fed tempting imagery all around you as with alcohol.
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Elven Warriorr said:
If you believe that alcohol is a hard drug because of it's withdrawal symptoms, or because of the overall burden which alcohol puts on society due to the fact that so many people alcohol it in comparison to other drugs, then I am not going to argue or disagree with you anymore. Foreigner has stated this correctly. And I totally agree with him.

All of my repetitive comments about "moderate drinking" and "alcohol taking a very long time to become physically addicted to" only take into account alcohol's physical health effects for some users, not the overall harm upon society which alcohol inflicts (such as car accidents, crimes which people commit while drunk).

I have highlighted Foreigner's most important statements about this topic.
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make it stop plz
 
I don't think he's arguing with you. I believe we're both saying this thread has already died multiple deaths and it's time to leave it be.
 
PurpleKush1 said:
Lol do you expect us to aplaud you or some shit? Statistics are falsified and biaised all the time, especially in a matter like this. Of course when you search on site like dailymail what do you expect?

It depends on the individuals, just like some people smoke for 10 years and getcancer and some people smoke all their life and never get it. ANd ofthen the moderation is hard to maintain. The day you will meet some alcoholics you will shut the fuck up about alcohol.

The leevel of bullshit in your posts is so high it aint even funny. Not everybody can moderate drink, the last fucking 4 pages moderate drinking moderate drinking moderate drinking you know what stuff it up your ignorant ass aight? LMAO also meth doesnt affect the liver, BULLSHIT AGAIN. You ar making a fool of yourself and pissing people off, when will you understand that no one want your so smart self in here? find another forum to talk your shit will you?
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I didn't even use the Daily Mail to research those statistics about cancer. Which other websites would you consider to be biased sites, other than Wikipedia and the Daily Mail?
 
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weekend addiction said:
Seriously I've seen plenty of threads closed for a lot less. This is an endless argument that nobody can "win" because everyone takes emotion and personal anecdotes over reason.
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What do you mean by "emotions and personal anecdotes"? Also, how am I not being reasonable? If my beliefs are flawed, then I am willing to hear why you believe that my beliefs are flawed.

Please, tell me what your opinion is in this argument. You say that you believe in reason, not emotion, but what's your actual opinion about this argument? Which side do you take? Or are you maybe somewhere in the middle?
 
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It's not a matter of being right or wrong or another poster being right or wrong or somewhere in the middle or whatever.
It's that this has been going on for a while now. You've presented all manner of opinions on drug, alcohol, tobacco use and abuse and you've been responded to.
That the thread is still open and you're still pushing the same set of views but in a slightly different way, AGAIN, is what is now getting at some folk.
If the mods won't lock it, then can we just let it lie? You have your opinions and you own those, other people don't seem to be getting swayed. So, what's the point in continuing?
 
I don't think that dividing drugs into classes of hard and soft is productive.

Alcohol is cheap, legal, socially acceptable, and easy to obtain. People who are addicted to alcohol, even those making minimum wage, can afford to drink cheap liquor at home. Alcohol addiction is much easier to maintain in the short run. Someone that's been a daily drinker can still be open and accepted into society and if they don't drive drunk they haven't broke any laws. They usually don't have to resort to crime to get there fix. They don't have to associate with drug dealers. Alcoholics have it easy in some ways.

If alcohol were illegal it would be just as harmful as any other "hard drug" whatever that means.
 
95Land said:
It's not a matter of being right or wrong or another poster being right or wrong or somewhere in the middle or whatever.
It's that this has been going on for a while now. You've presented all manner of opinions on drug, alcohol, tobacco use and abuse and you've been responded to.
That the thread is still open and you're still pushing the same set of views but in a slightly different way, AGAIN, is what is now getting at some folk.
If the mods won't lock it, then can we just let it lie? You have your opinions and you own those, other people don't seem to be getting swayed. So, what's the point in continuing?
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Maybe elven's an attention whore? who knows....
 
^It's interesting cause it didn't start out as HIS thread. But it sure as fuck is now.
Some people thrive on being contrarian voices and that's fine. Just seems like most of us feel this thread long ago drifted into "the assault of a dead horse" territory.
I'm trying to think of a new thread topic for EW. Maybe he could move to SL&R and do a "Masturbation causes increased knuckle hair and I can prove it" thread.
 
95Land said:
^It's interesting cause it didn't start out as HIS thread. But it sure as fuck is now.
Some people thrive on being contrarian voices and that's fine. Just seems like most of us feel this thread long ago drifted into "the assault of a dead horse" territory.
I'm trying to think of a new thread topic for EW. Maybe he could move to SL&R and do a "Masturbation causes increased knuckle hair and I can prove it" thread.
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Hahahahahahahahahaha i think it would suit him quite well. Though any thread that is '' X causes Y and i can prove it with some facts i pull outta my ass'' would do the trick. lol .
 
PurpleKush1 said:
Hahahahahahahahahaha i think it would suit him quite well. Though any thread that is '' X causes Y and i can prove it with some facts i pull outta my ass'' would do the trick. lol .
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When I got my statistics about alcohol, I didn't even use Wikipedia or the Daily Mail. I got my statistics from other sites.

Which other sites do you view as being biased, other than the Daily Mail and Wikipedia?

Many times you keep stating that statistics are sometimes biased.
 
Elven Warriorr said:
When I got my statistics about alcohol, I didn't even use Wikipedia or the Daily Mail. I got my statistics from other sites.

Which other sites do you view as being biased, other than the Daily Mail and Wikipedia?

Many times you keep stating that statistics are sometimes biased.
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honestly elven do you really think think im going to answer that? Im done losing my time trying to explain something to a wall. You know everything right, then this thread should die perhaps...
 
PurpleKush1 said:
honestly elven do you really think think im going to answer that? Im done losing my time trying to explain something to a wall. You know everything right, then this thread should die perhaps...
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I am willing to hear what you have to say without repeating myself or saying the same stuff over and over again. I am just curious why you had stated that my sources which I got my facts from (the stuff which i had posted on this thread), are biased. Which sources are biased? I don't even get most of my information from Wikipedia or the Daily Mail. It's important because this entire thread you kept saying that my statistics were bullshit because they came from biased sources.
 
I have drank alcohol heavily through my late teen and early 20s. I would not consider myself an alcoholic, but others may disagree judging by how I consumed alcohol. After 3-4 beers/drinks I would frequently (at lest once a month for a good 2-3 years) get blackout drunk and sometimes do tings that were incredibly dangerous. Over the past 3 years I have used opiates, most recently heroin. I have never gotten so messed up on heroin I have been a threat to myself or anyone else.

But I was never really addicted to alcohol, I would go weeks without it at times. And really I just wasn't doing anything social at those times. But with opiates its all the time or nothing. That is where the problem is...most heavy alcohol users can go about life without it until the time comes when its acceptable to use it, but with opiates you can't go without them. But in my case, am I a worse person using opiates consistently through the day, though most people wouldn't even be able to tell I am on them OR is is better to be sober until it is acceptable for me to get drink alcohol at which point I get blackout drunk and have 0 inhibitions?
 
Elven Warriorr said:
I am willing to hear what you have to say without repeating myself or saying the same stuff over and over again. I am just curious why you had stated that my sources which I got my facts from (the stuff which i had posted on this thread), are biased. Which sources are biased? I don't even get most of my information from Wikipedia or the Daily Mail. It's important because this entire thread you kept saying that my statistics were bullshit because they came from biased sources.
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Because half these statitistics are ''enhanced''to make seem different substances more dangerous than they are. Secondly i dont give a fuck what stats, i have used enough of different drugs,i know exactly what they do and i can tell you that alot the shit you see in stats rarely occurs. But can we let this thread die? Theres really nothing say,
 
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