A friend stated that he thinks weed is worse than alcohol because the average student won't consume enough alcohol to cause liver problems, but any amount of weed raises the risk of schizophrenia. So my question is what evidence is there for recreational use of alcohol raising risk of mental problems or causing cognitive impairment at normal getting pissed on a Friday and Saturday levels? Obviously I said that the link between cannabis and schizophrenia is very weak and binge drinking is generally bad for your health even if you don't end up with serious liver problems. Would it also be true that any amount of binge drinking will slightly raise risks of liver problems if you happen to be susceptible, in the same way cannabis does with schizophrenia?
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Alcohol vs cannabis, whcih is most likely to cause mental health problems
- Thread starter joe456
- Start date
Crashing
Bluelighter
There is no raised 'risk' for schizophrenia, rather if you already have it, the cannabis will bring it out. As Bob Marley once said, "When you smoke herb, it reveals you to yourself." Alcohol comes with a variety of risks, ones which I personally would consider far more dangerous. You can't compare daily weed usage with occasional alcohol consumption, because that isn't a fair trail.
"Although most alcoholics entering treatment do not have decreased overall intelligence scores, approximately 45 to 70 percent of these patients have specific deficits in problem solving, abstract thinking, concept shifting, psychomotor performance, and difficult memory tasks." (Parsons & Leber 1981; Eckardt & Martin 1986
Research suggests a strong dose dependent correlation between alcohol and brain damage. That is to say, dosage per use is more important to note than numbers of administrations. A single bender can cause more brain damage than say, drinking a beer everyday for a month. *Note that marijuana has never been linked to brain damage in any conclusive study.* Reduced cerebral blood flow as well as reduced neural response activity has been researched and reported among alcohol users, and approximately 40-60% of all alcoholics suffer moderate long term cognitive impairments, as opposed to the more minor and shorter term duration impairments induced by marijuana consumption.
Alcohol is also toxic, and marijuana isn't. This is a major concern when comparing the health risks of these tow substances. Often times alcohol consumption leads to a thi amine deficit which in turn translates to malnourishment, as thi amine is largely responsible for elimination of metalloids from the body.
This study shows that short term drinking may have long term health risks: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/dementia/a/blacer050614.htm
Marijuana may cause slight acute cognitive impairments, but has never been linked to a physical risk of any kind, including lung cancer. In the present day researchers believe it to have cancer fighting agents, as well as a variety of other health benefits, which cannot be said for alcohol, since alcohol is toxic.
The prevalence of schizophrenia is approximately 1% of the world population, so this fear is nearly trivial unless you have a long history of schizophrenic family members.
In terms of occasional or long term use, my hypothesis is that marijuana is much, much healthier in nearly every aspect, as it's only risks are very minor and purely psychological, often wearing off quickly after cessation. Whereas alcohol comes with similar risks (albeit longer term impairments), plus a ton more baggage, as well as being extremely physically damaging and toxic. Alcohol also puts the user at high risk for acute overdose and physical addiction which the withdrawals from can be fatal. Marijuana has a very slight addictive complex, and withdrawals are extremely mild compared to any other substance. Furthermore, alcohol directly damages the tissues it comes into contact to, whereas marijuana smoke may be irritating, but no conclusive evidence has been released that it is actually damaging. Plus, marijuana does not need to be smoked if this is a concern, but with alcohol, directly drinking it is the only way to consume it. The answer seems obvious.
"Although most alcoholics entering treatment do not have decreased overall intelligence scores, approximately 45 to 70 percent of these patients have specific deficits in problem solving, abstract thinking, concept shifting, psychomotor performance, and difficult memory tasks." (Parsons & Leber 1981; Eckardt & Martin 1986
Research suggests a strong dose dependent correlation between alcohol and brain damage. That is to say, dosage per use is more important to note than numbers of administrations. A single bender can cause more brain damage than say, drinking a beer everyday for a month. *Note that marijuana has never been linked to brain damage in any conclusive study.* Reduced cerebral blood flow as well as reduced neural response activity has been researched and reported among alcohol users, and approximately 40-60% of all alcoholics suffer moderate long term cognitive impairments, as opposed to the more minor and shorter term duration impairments induced by marijuana consumption.
Alcohol is also toxic, and marijuana isn't. This is a major concern when comparing the health risks of these tow substances. Often times alcohol consumption leads to a thi amine deficit which in turn translates to malnourishment, as thi amine is largely responsible for elimination of metalloids from the body.
This study shows that short term drinking may have long term health risks: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/dementia/a/blacer050614.htm
Marijuana may cause slight acute cognitive impairments, but has never been linked to a physical risk of any kind, including lung cancer. In the present day researchers believe it to have cancer fighting agents, as well as a variety of other health benefits, which cannot be said for alcohol, since alcohol is toxic.
The prevalence of schizophrenia is approximately 1% of the world population, so this fear is nearly trivial unless you have a long history of schizophrenic family members.
In terms of occasional or long term use, my hypothesis is that marijuana is much, much healthier in nearly every aspect, as it's only risks are very minor and purely psychological, often wearing off quickly after cessation. Whereas alcohol comes with similar risks (albeit longer term impairments), plus a ton more baggage, as well as being extremely physically damaging and toxic. Alcohol also puts the user at high risk for acute overdose and physical addiction which the withdrawals from can be fatal. Marijuana has a very slight addictive complex, and withdrawals are extremely mild compared to any other substance. Furthermore, alcohol directly damages the tissues it comes into contact to, whereas marijuana smoke may be irritating, but no conclusive evidence has been released that it is actually damaging. Plus, marijuana does not need to be smoked if this is a concern, but with alcohol, directly drinking it is the only way to consume it. The answer seems obvious.
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Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
^I agree with Crashing. Alcohol is worse for you and your brain in many ways.
As for whether or not any amount of binge drinking is going to raise one's risks of liver problems, I'm really not sure, but I'd be inclined to suspect that it can and that the risks go up with frequency and quantity. It's a very tough thing to study.
As for whether or not any amount of binge drinking is going to raise one's risks of liver problems, I'm really not sure, but I'd be inclined to suspect that it can and that the risks go up with frequency and quantity. It's a very tough thing to study.
Bruce Haze
Bluelighter
This is all from my personal experience and knowledge database.
For one, your friend compared the damaging physical aspects of alcohol consumption to the damaging mental aspects of marijuana consumption. He starts off with his argument being flawed. The first thing that I would have pointed out is that if we were going to be comparing, then we need to compare physical downsides to the opposing drugs physical downsides and verse visa with mental downsides.
I'll give you a little background on my drug use, so you can see where my standpoint on daily marijuana use is and get a little info on the damage that I have observed, both mentally and physically.
-I smoke marijuana daily, and have for the past 5 years. I smoke weed from Cali, and I'm not just saying "Oh my weeds dank man, it's some cali bud..." It really is from Cali haha.
-I also take methadone 20 mg everyday, for the past month and before that I was on subutex for half a year. I am tapering and hoping to get off this shit. But let's not get started on opiates Haha :D
-I have consumed meth using many different routes of administration probably 60-70 times. NEVER used more than 4 days in a month and averaged maybe 2 days for the past 6 months.
-Around 3 months ago I took shrooms, at night, by myself. LOL not such a good idea but I ended up really bonding with my dad and I told him I was on them and he talked to me and kept me interested in different topics and made it to where I actually enjoyed it a little.
These are the things that may or may not have affected my psyche, for good or bad
.
I'm gonna try and be honest with you about my daily marijuana use. I'm gonna tell you:
-How I feel when I have gone without marijuana for 4-6 hours.
I can handle not being able to smoke for more than 8 hours without doing anything risky to get weed. I don't act moody and negative because I know I won't be able to smoke until I get home from work. It actually gives me something to look forward to, because almost every weekday I have to wait to smoke from like 2 P.M. to 10 P.M.
-How much I consume on an average daily.
I consume about .4-.5 a day. I have a 14 inch bong with a double perculator, and its the smoothest smoke I have ever had. The smoke passes through water three times... I might have to toke up before I finish this sucker...
haha.
-How I feel if I run out or have to go 12 hours+ without any. (I never run out and have to go more than 24 hours, and if I have it hasn't more than three 24-hour periods in the past 6 months)
When I have made it past 12 hours without smoking, I am really wanting to smoke a bowl, haha. I might be a little negative about things, get aggravated easily, do things that when I get high I will ask myself, did I really say this to him or her, wow I was being a dick haha.
-How I handle smoking my last bit of tree at night, and am either broke or just somehow know that I'm not gonna be able to get any the next day.
I feel like these nights are pretty shitty and I just have to accept that I can't smoke. I try to stimulate my mind doing other things that keep my mind off of weed. Preferably fun things, but hard work actually can serve the same purpose of keeping your mind on something. Your WORST enemy when quitting weed is boredom, remember that.
-If I have any hallucinations. I'm talking about perceptions that aren't there, whether they be visual hallucinations, verbal hallucinations, or even your sense of taste, smelling or touch, Haha.
Negative, and I sure hope that I never do!
Now, on to any negative physical damage I feel may have been done by marijuana.
I'll try and be honest here too, I'll tell you:
-Whether I have chest pains.
Sometimes if I take multiple rapid hits in succession, my chest will hurt for a little while.
-Whether my stamina has been affected.
Yes, my endurance has most definitely declined, from lack of exercise, and smoking.
To sum it up, I think that if you can control your use, marijuana is definitely a better option to choose if you are going to select a drug to consume and get fucked up off of, and want to keep the risk of mental dependence, mental degradation, or physical harm to your body. I think that alcohol, in large doses, can be damaging to your organs. As stated above, its not about the amount of administrations, its about how much you consume at one time. And judging by how you feel the next day, alcohol can't be good for you! Not that marijuana is good for you, but I sure don't feel like shit the next day off it, or even comedown.
I hope that my response is appreciated and of some help. Good day/night to you fellow Bluelighter!
For one, your friend compared the damaging physical aspects of alcohol consumption to the damaging mental aspects of marijuana consumption. He starts off with his argument being flawed. The first thing that I would have pointed out is that if we were going to be comparing, then we need to compare physical downsides to the opposing drugs physical downsides and verse visa with mental downsides.
I'll give you a little background on my drug use, so you can see where my standpoint on daily marijuana use is and get a little info on the damage that I have observed, both mentally and physically.
-I smoke marijuana daily, and have for the past 5 years. I smoke weed from Cali, and I'm not just saying "Oh my weeds dank man, it's some cali bud..." It really is from Cali haha.
-I also take methadone 20 mg everyday, for the past month and before that I was on subutex for half a year. I am tapering and hoping to get off this shit. But let's not get started on opiates Haha :D
-I have consumed meth using many different routes of administration probably 60-70 times. NEVER used more than 4 days in a month and averaged maybe 2 days for the past 6 months.
-Around 3 months ago I took shrooms, at night, by myself. LOL not such a good idea but I ended up really bonding with my dad and I told him I was on them and he talked to me and kept me interested in different topics and made it to where I actually enjoyed it a little.
These are the things that may or may not have affected my psyche, for good or bad
.I'm gonna try and be honest with you about my daily marijuana use. I'm gonna tell you:
-How I feel when I have gone without marijuana for 4-6 hours.
I can handle not being able to smoke for more than 8 hours without doing anything risky to get weed. I don't act moody and negative because I know I won't be able to smoke until I get home from work. It actually gives me something to look forward to, because almost every weekday I have to wait to smoke from like 2 P.M. to 10 P.M.
-How much I consume on an average daily.
I consume about .4-.5 a day. I have a 14 inch bong with a double perculator, and its the smoothest smoke I have ever had. The smoke passes through water three times... I might have to toke up before I finish this sucker...
haha.-How I feel if I run out or have to go 12 hours+ without any. (I never run out and have to go more than 24 hours, and if I have it hasn't more than three 24-hour periods in the past 6 months)
When I have made it past 12 hours without smoking, I am really wanting to smoke a bowl, haha. I might be a little negative about things, get aggravated easily, do things that when I get high I will ask myself, did I really say this to him or her, wow I was being a dick haha.
-How I handle smoking my last bit of tree at night, and am either broke or just somehow know that I'm not gonna be able to get any the next day.
I feel like these nights are pretty shitty and I just have to accept that I can't smoke. I try to stimulate my mind doing other things that keep my mind off of weed. Preferably fun things, but hard work actually can serve the same purpose of keeping your mind on something. Your WORST enemy when quitting weed is boredom, remember that.
-If I have any hallucinations. I'm talking about perceptions that aren't there, whether they be visual hallucinations, verbal hallucinations, or even your sense of taste, smelling or touch, Haha.
Negative, and I sure hope that I never do!
Now, on to any negative physical damage I feel may have been done by marijuana.
I'll try and be honest here too, I'll tell you:
-Whether I have chest pains.
Sometimes if I take multiple rapid hits in succession, my chest will hurt for a little while.
-Whether my stamina has been affected.
Yes, my endurance has most definitely declined, from lack of exercise, and smoking.
To sum it up, I think that if you can control your use, marijuana is definitely a better option to choose if you are going to select a drug to consume and get fucked up off of, and want to keep the risk of mental dependence, mental degradation, or physical harm to your body. I think that alcohol, in large doses, can be damaging to your organs. As stated above, its not about the amount of administrations, its about how much you consume at one time. And judging by how you feel the next day, alcohol can't be good for you! Not that marijuana is good for you, but I sure don't feel like shit the next day off it, or even comedown.
I hope that my response is appreciated and of some help. Good day/night to you fellow Bluelighter!
DOB
Bluelighter
cannabis is harmless.... alcohol is one of worst toxins out there,both mentaly and you know,for yo body
DOB
Bluelighter
well theres multiple cases of people overdosing to death with pure water,alcohol cause millions of deaths each year,how many people you know died becose they overdoses on weed?
also the more powerfull the weed is,the healthier it is becose you need to smoke less
people are in psychward becose multiple reasons,including being idiot and having mental illness written in dna
cannabis is almost harmless, i get chronchitis every once in awhile.
alcohol is quite harmfull. i dont drink it.
why puff on some dry herbs when you could swallow the white mans poison?
as far as mental health, if you have undiscovered schizophrenia, smoking pot isnt ganna do nothing that time wouldnt have.
alcohol is quite harmfull. i dont drink it.
why puff on some dry herbs when you could swallow the white mans poison?
as far as mental health, if you have undiscovered schizophrenia, smoking pot isnt ganna do nothing that time wouldnt have.
DOB
Bluelighter
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
cannabis isn't harmless but it does not cause schizophrenia or a rise in psych ward patients, that is bullshit propaganda you have fallen for. Cannabis does seem to increase anxiety and paranoia for a lot of people but it's merely temporary and for the vast majority who experience these issues they just avoid cannabis. I'd say that effect has to do with the higher and higher thc/cbd ratios. It's really physically harmless when vaped or eaten and poses little risks psychologically, if it affects you negatively psychologically then you are likely to stop. The data with schizophrenics is often skewed because some schizophrenics self medicate with cannabis.
Foreigner
Bluelight Crew
I'm prone to depression so if I smoke cannabis too often it will induce a depressed state, but paraxodically if I smoke it occasionally it actually enhances my mood. Smoking too often makes me lazy, unmotivated, less productive, my short term memory sucks, and I feel foggy all the time. The few times I've gotten hammered on alcohol, the hangover was just one day and then I moved on with my life. Physically, I notice that cannabis affects my breathing if I smoke too often, so I can see how it *could* cause something like COPD and emphysema.
That said... alcohol shuts me down way, way more than any other drug I've taken, so I can see why really sensitive people would turn to it. It makes me more confused, unable to participate, and more disconnected from people around me. It's also physically addictive whereas cannabis is just habit forming, big diff. Long term alcohol abuse causes brain lesions and liver damage. I don't think the same can be said about cannabis.
Alcohol is a lot more damaging to society. Drunks are the most dangerous of all drug users IMO. They're unpredictable, moody, and can be angry and violent. Plus they're just plain obnoxious.
That said... alcohol shuts me down way, way more than any other drug I've taken, so I can see why really sensitive people would turn to it. It makes me more confused, unable to participate, and more disconnected from people around me. It's also physically addictive whereas cannabis is just habit forming, big diff. Long term alcohol abuse causes brain lesions and liver damage. I don't think the same can be said about cannabis.
Alcohol is a lot more damaging to society. Drunks are the most dangerous of all drug users IMO. They're unpredictable, moody, and can be angry and violent. Plus they're just plain obnoxious.
Herbal~Jah
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2010
- Messages
- 776
Alcohol vs cannabis, whcih is most likely to cause mental health problems?
This question is simple... ALCOHOL!
This question is simple... ALCOHOL!
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
I've never seen anyone in the psych ward due to cannabis. But I have seen a lot of people with brain damage, liver damage, serious alcoholism, etc from using alcohol.
I agree with this:
RobotRipping said:
Its not quite clear to what extent cannabis can manifest schizophrenia or psychotic disorders (in my opinion). As RobotRipping stated people with such illnesses use cannabis to counter their problem and this group is more likely to use cannabis than the general population, pointing to it somehow being useful. I suspect that those who experience anxiety/paranoia or psychosis, if you will, after using cannabis are not serving them self by taking it; this is where a mental disorder might be likely to pop up. I mean, its a hallucinogen. Having a good experience is generally "good", having a bad one is "bad" for you. I am going to create a thread on this though in ADD.
cripkeeper
Bluelighter
Agree with most. Alcohol is by far more damaging to the body in whole, including the mind.
szuko000
Bluelight Crew
Depends on the dose and the person. I would say weed is more likely to cause psychotic episodes in a first time or short term use for someone predispositioned. It is not harmless and that's way to general of a term. I've seen 2 people have psychotic breaks on it.
Alcohol is far worse in the long term but a lot less likely to cause short term episodes. Alcohol will ruin your body and your mind, over time
Weed is definitely better for you in the long one but sobriety is better over all. Weed is also far from harmless and alcohol is much much further from harmless.
We all know opiates are the least harmful, short of crippling addiction. And it's oh so crippling.
Alcohol is far worse in the long term but a lot less likely to cause short term episodes. Alcohol will ruin your body and your mind, over time
Weed is definitely better for you in the long one but sobriety is better over all. Weed is also far from harmless and alcohol is much much further from harmless.
We all know opiates are the least harmful, short of crippling addiction. And it's oh so crippling.
opium
Bluelighter
yup, alcohol is far more damaging, unless you already have a mental health issue, or an underlying one. cannabis is known to bring out a "sleeping" mental health problem that wouldnt have shown itself for a long time, or ever.
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
I haven't seen any real evidence of this, but I have seen many studies that found to the contrary, that although people with mental illness are more likely to use cannabis there is no evidence that the cannabis caused the mental illness, and even when it did seem that their symptoms appeared/worsened after using cannabis that it was a non-specific trigger (meaning they would have had that mental illness whether they used cannabis or not).