Alcohol Alcohol Megathread

[CafeContin]

But, I think it's a little hypocritical to go condemning IV alcohol, on the principle that it's bad for your body and there are other alternatives, when not many people here condemn cannabis smoking on the same principle.

That is a terrible analogy, smoking cannabis is an effective way to get high. Injecting alcohol is bad for you while at the same time requiring such a high dose that most people don't have the necessary equipment to get any effect.

Here's a better analogy in my opinion; someone posts a thread where they want to inject cannabis. Everyone points out how much easier it is to smoke it and how there is a danger in trying to inject plant material.

 

[PureLife]

2inchdolphin- You simply can't be serious right? your comparing smoking marijuana to intravenously using alcohol. At first i thought maybe you were 14 or 15. but your a little to smart for that. so i figure you just don't really do many drugs at all. maybe you smoke a little pot, maybe you drink a once in a blue moon. Just think about what your saying man, unless your a fucking troll, like CG said.

 

[Nagelfar]

Why would any one even think that shooting up alcohol could be a good idea?
Is the taste really that bad? lol

You'd pass a breathalyzer.

My punk rock friends used to say they had a group of friends who shot up Jack Daniels and that a single bottle kept them inebriated for a month. Though from what people are saying here, requiring 60ml, I guess it wouldn't be much different than drinking and that couldn't have been the case then.

 

[ClubbinGuido]

You'd pass a breathalyzer.

My punk rock friends used to say they had a group of friends who shot up Jack Daniels and that a single bottle kept them inebriated for a month. Though from what people are saying here, requiring 60ml, I guess it wouldn't be much different than drinking and that couldn't have been the case then.

You would still fail. And your punk rock friends are bullshitting you. Unless they are dead.

 

[2inchdolphin]

If your trolling please tell me, because that post was 10/10 if you are. Flawless.

LOL! No, I'm dead serious.

If your being serious, you realize that he could die from the impurities in whatever he is going to inject right? That's what makes it dangerous.

I don't disagree that it's dangerous. Of course it's dangerous. Yes, he could die, I've said numerous times that this isn't the smartest thing to do, and I'm not encouraging it.

But if you are going to do it then my post was about understanding the risks and minimising harm, which is what this site is for.

Yes it's risky, but let's not get reefer madness on his guy. I mean I don't think high schools should teach the BS that they do about drugs, mainly 'cause it's BS. But also 'cause when kids realise that the propaganda they were taught is bunk, they might come to think that everything they've ever heard about drugs is baloney.

The governments' justification is that lying to kids about drugs is the best way to minimise harm. I don't think many people here agree with that. I don't think exaggerating the dangers of drugs is a good way to go about things. The truth plus sane drug policy is a much better way.

By the same token I don't think people should exaggerate here, even in the interest of harm reduction. Yes there are impurities in everclear, but I don't see many people criticising cannabis smoking on that principle even though there are a fuckload of impurities in cannabis smoke. But seriously, it's mostly ethanol and water. I think him needing to call a mortician is a bit of an exaggeration.

If there are toxic impurities in everclear that aren't deactivated during first pass metabolism, then it's irrelevant 'cause people are drinking them anyway. If there are toxic impurities that are scrubbed during FPM, then they're not toxic enough to cause people to drop dead after inhaling alcohol in those alcohol vaporisers (google "awol machine").

OK, so maybe there are toxins that aren't volatile enough to get through the machine, or their concentration doesn't reach toxic levels during the 30 minutes it takes for the machine to vap the shot. Possible.

Remember he's gonna be shooting everclear or vodka, which is designed to have no flavoured impurities, which doesn't exclude the chance of toxic impurities, but it minimises them. There is a case of a man being saved from from anti-freeze poisoning by being given a drip of vodka (three standard drinks per hour for three days) at a hospital in Australia. (http://africa.reuters.com/odd/news/usnSYD114793.html)

Again, I'm not saying that this is 100% safe. He may die, but I haven't been able to find a case of someone dying from this from a quick google search. Y'all seem adamant that he will drop dead/fuck his life permanently by doing this. He very well may, but I'd like to see a bit of evidence for such a strong position.

On the cautionary principle that he may die, so he shouldn't do it, fine, I agree that he probably shouldn't do it. But if he does, I think a sober assessment of risks and ways to minimise harm is more helpful than exaggeration and unsubstantiated claims.


Is IVing alcohol harmless? Of course not.
Could he die from doing it? It's definitely possible.
Should he do it? He probably shouldn't.
Is he 100% guaranteed to drop dead the minute he pushes the plunger? No.

But, I think it's a little hypocritical to go condemning IV alcohol, on the principle that it's bad for your body and there are other alternatives, when not many people here condemn cannabis smoking on the same principle.

That is a terrible analogy

It's not an analogy in terms of the potential harm. Of course smoking cannabis carries less danger than IVing alcohol. I've never said otherwise. It's an analogy in terms of the potential to criticise an action on a principle. People are criticising IVing alcohol on the principle that it is harmful and there are safer alternatives. They are not criticising the smoking of cannabis on the same principle. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy in that.

smoking cannabis is an effective way to get high.

Do you think I don't know this?

Injecting alcohol is bad for you

Where have I said otherwise? I said it in the first line of my first post, and numerous times subsequently.

while at the same time requiring such a high dose that most people don't have the necessary equipment to get any effect.

OK, this is a separate issue from harm minimisation. I agree and I addressed this in my first post.

Here's a better analogy in my opinion; someone posts a thread where they want to inject cannabis. Everyone points out how much easier it is to smoke it and how there is a danger in trying to inject plant material.

Or, they apply the minimising harm principle consistently, and start pointing out that smoking weed is so much more dangerous than eating it.

2inchdolphin- You simply can't be serious right?

I am deadly serious.

your comparing smoking marijuana to intravenously using alcohol.

I am not comparing them in terms of potential harm. I never did. I am comparing them in terms of the potential to criticise an action on a principle. Let me repeat myself. People are criticising IVing alcohol on the principle that it is harmful and there are safer alternatives. They are not criticising the smoking of cannabis on the same principle. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy in that.

At first i thought maybe you were 14 or 15. but your a little to smart for that. so i figure you just don't really do many drugs at all. maybe you smoke a little pot, maybe you drink a once in a blue moon.

If you understood what I was saying you wouldn't have to speculate about my age or drug use.

Just think about what your saying man,

I did. Read what I said.

unless your a fucking troll, like CG said.

I'm quite serious.

You'd pass a breathalyzer.

You wouldn't. A breathalyzer measures blood alcohol concentration, not stomach alcohol concentration. There's a reason the police ask you to breathe into a breathalyzer, not burp into it. Alcohol is absorbed from the stomach into the blood, and some of it is excreted in the breath. Alcohol absorbed through a vein is still going to be excreted by the lungs. I'm pretty sure the OP isn't shooting alcohol to pass a breathalyzer in any case.

 

[PureLife]

This is funny. Like funny funny. shit like this gets closed right?

 

[FlowMotion]

I'm done argueing with this schmuck.

 

[QuasiStoned]

I can't believe there are people trying to offer advice on how to do this....

Why even risk it? I see no reason to IV anything unless it would be beneficial in some way... There is almost no benefit in this.

 

[PureLife]

^ you'd literally have to IV as much as you'd have to drink. there was a thread about a year ago about this. I didn't want to bring it up, and certainly wasn't going to pull it up, but the poster actually tried it. It was pointless.

 

[Ason Unique]

Plug some vodka, just use a smaller amount, but I think alcohol burns your rectum too.

 

[Desdenova]

Jeez, that was a completely useless and unnecessary argument to start

 

[NW-baltiland]

Bad (explitive) idea.

 

[burn out]

the point that 2inchdolphin raised is valid. i don't necessarily blame people for not wanting to continue a long debate with him because frankly, it's probably not the best use of their time. however, i think it's important to recognize that he is right. bluelighters, generally speaking of course, often do not employ the harm reduction principle consistently. i am not going to comment on this specific instance but i'm talking about the broader issue here.

 

[2inchdolphin]

I can't believe there are people trying to offer advice on how to do this....

It's the same reason governments offer needle exchange programs, and the reason this site exists.

Why do governments offer needle exchange? It just encourages people to pursue risky drug behaviour right?

Fuck, why even have this site? Surely it too encourages risky drug behaviour!

I mean there are guides here on how to extract codeine. Codeine is metabolised into morphine in the body, morphine being well known for causing physical addiction rapidly. And you can bet there are opiate overdose victims out there who started down that path after tasting the fruits or a successful cold-water extraction.

There are guides on how to snort morphine. That shit is addictive, and carries appreciable risks of overdose. Why the hell is there a guide on how to do this??!

Jesus, there are guides on how to inject heroin. That shit is REALLY fucken dangerous. My god, why on earth are people posting this shit?

There are even guides on how to INJECT FUCKING FENTANYL. The overdose potential for that is astronomical, why are these fucking retards posting guides on how to do this!!??

The reason there are guides on how to do these absurdly dangerous things, is that people are going to do them anyway, and if they are, then let's help them do it in as safe a manner as possible. Harm minimisation: Bluelight's raison d'être.

We don't want people dying of acetaminophen poisoning so we have a guide on how to extract codeine safely.

We don't want people fucking their sinuses, so we tell them how to rail morphine with minimal harm.

We don't want people getting abscesses, and having their limbs chopped off, so we have guides on how to reduce the danger associated with injecting heroin.

We don't want people ODing on fentanyl, so we have guides explaining how to best measure a dose to reduce the risk.

Why even risk it? I see no reason to IV anything unless it would be beneficial in some way... There is almost no benefit in this.

I mean why inject smack? There isn't a huge difference between smoking it and banging it, so why expose yourself to that risk? It doesn't matter (I've given reasons why someone might want to do it in previous posts anyway). People are going to do it, so let's help them do it in as safe a manner as possible.

This is funny. Like funny funny. shit like this gets closed right?

If you're gonna close this thread, then close the fucking fent injection thread, I'm pretty sure you'd agree that injecting fent carries at least the same if not more risk than injecting alcohol.

Hell, if you're gonna close this thread, then close down the heroin IV and codeine extraction thread. Fuck it close down the whole goddamn site. If people can't see the point of this forum, then get the fuck out.

the point that 2inchdolphin raised is valid. i don't necessarily blame people for not wanting to continue a long debate with him because frankly, it's probably not the best use of their time. however, i think it's important to recognize that he is right. bluelighters, generally speaking of course, often do not employ the harm reduction principle consistently. i am not going to comment on this specific instance but i'm talking about the broader issue here.

I'm glad someone understands where I'm coming from. It's not a hard principle to apply. When someone posts about smoking weed, all you have to do is gently remind them that smoking weed carries a small, but very real risk of lung disease, and there are safer methods of ingesting it.

The problem is that a lot of this site is on how to enjoy drugs more, it's sort of tacitly accepted that this is what people come here for, and that can (and often does) conflict with it's official policy of harm minimisation. It's an internal contradiction, but that's another thread.

 

[Damien]

The problem is that a lot of this site is on how to enjoy drugs more, it's sort of tacitly accepted that this is what people come here for, and that can (and often does) conflict with it's official policy of harm minimisation. It's an internal contradiction, but that's another thread.

Start it up in Drug Culture dude. Seems like you have more than a few thoughts on the subject.

 

[dokomo]

I'm glad someone understands where I'm coming from. It's not a hard principle to apply. When someone posts about smoking weed, all you have to do is gently remind them that smoking weed carries a small, but very real risk of lung disease, and there are safer methods of ingesting it.

The problem is that a lot of this site is on how to enjoy drugs more, it's sort of tacitly accepted that this is what people come here for, and that can (and often does) conflict with it's official policy of harm minimisation. It's an internal contradiction, but that's another thread.

I too see where you are coming from, and you are right about some things.

I totally disagree that it is an easy principle to apply. We unfortunately don't live in a black and white world, and science does not have complete knowledge of many of the substances that are discussed here. There are always gray areas that must be specifically addressed based upon a range of data, both empirical and anecdotal that you cant apply a simple template to.

You think that this is a contradiction, an example of hypocrisy? Of course it is! But that is the world we know, a world full of imperfect manifestations of perfect abstract forms. Hypocrisy and contradictions are the norm because humans are fallible and are incapable of being entirely unbiased, just, and all-knowing. So, even if you're right, it doesn't matter...

 

[PureLife]

But you seem to just not understand, all the things you listed can be safely done. Injecting alcohol can not be safely done. Thats the point. It would destroy your veins at the rate of flow, Its just not practical but you fail to see that for some reason and wish to raise an argument on totally different topic. Just start a new thread if you wish to raise your argument.

 

[iameatingjam]

My dad once told me of an old friend who did this, he also told me about how much she was bitching about the burn, how it wasn't fun and how she died a couple years later.

I would never have to consider this
one beer gets me drunk

 

[Lost and Confused]

In order to apply a 'harm reduction' principal to every thread on here one would have to respond with the full belief that the individual who started the thread is GOING TO do whatever they made the thread about, and then ask yourself, "well if this guy is going to do this regardless of how much I tell him not to, I should do the best I can to inform him of both the positive and negative effects of their choice.".
Which, to my understanding dolphin did properly. There is no way to tell someone how to IV heroin/fentanyl and tell someone not to IV alcohol without being hypocritical.

They are both dangerous and if we are to stick to our harm reduction principal, we have to assume that the OP knows this and all we can do is simply tell him how to do it more safely...not to avoid it all together.

 

[PureLife]

Honestly when you look over a lot of the threads in the drug forums, the questions being asked are simple non-life threatening questions. They involve no immediate destructiveness to the body. If they do, things like this happen. People lash out, and tell the OP not to do it, and the negative effects.
Of COURSE he takes the TWO OR THREE people that agree with him, and goes against the 15 or 20 other peoples advice. It doesn't make sense. Then again, ignorance doesn't make sense to me.