So, this thread is very openly anti-Australian.
I'm not offended... In fact, I get it. I understand the outrage.
There is one law for white communities and another law for Aboriginal communities. This is technically discrimination, which is usually a racist thing. It is more complicated than that, though.
Some Americans here have drawn comparisons to comparable historic situations involving Native Americans. I'm not familiar with American history, so I can't say whether or not the situation is the same.
Alcohol prohibition in indigenous Australian communities won't end up like Chicago (or whatever) in the 1930s. I'm no expert on that era, obviously... but I know the gist of it.
If they tried to do an alcohol ban in Melbourne, people would go ape-shit for a while and then it'd all go black market and moonshine. There's already a lot of hobbyists making batch alcohol in spite of the government tightly restricting our ability to do so on private land. If they introduced prohibition, all they'd be doing is feeding money to criminals.
Indigenous communities in Australia (I'm not taking about Alice yet) aren't like major Australian cities. They might as well be in a different (third world) country.
There is widespread poverty and in some areas (world) record breaking rates of child sexual assault. Incest rates are very high. Statistically I think Aboriginal people are less likely to drink but way more likely to abuse alcohol if they do drink.
Indigenous Australians - just remembered we're not supposed to say
Aboriginal anymore - never consumed alcohol. They existed almost completely isolated from the rest of the world throughout all of modern and ancient history... The introduction of alcohol has had a devastating effect on their way of life. For whatever reason, it behaves like a much harder drug when they consume it.
There is a biological factor, I think... but, it doesn't matter. The reason is irrelevant.
When men, women and children in a community are suffering to that extent because of a drug (any drug) it should be controlled.
Absolute freedom is not more important than safety.
A lot of you wonderful BL people have declared your fundamentalism in regards to legalization. I don't know who of you belongs to this tribe, but I remember being surprised repeatedly how many otherwise rational people could possibly think that everything should be legal for production and sale.
I understand legal for consumption. That I agree with. Doesn't matter what it is. People can do whatever the fuck they want.
I also don't think people should be criminally punished for producing their own drugs that they intend to consume themselves. They shouldn't be allowed to
sell the drugs publicly. Perhaps - if caught - selling could be treated more like tax fraud rather than trafficking. Make everything legal for consumption and home production, but slap big fines (on top of the estimated tax owed) for anyone who profits by selling their stash.
I don't know. That's just of the top of my head.
If people in Indigenous communities go to the effort to make home-brew, let them drink it.
It gets worse than Alice Springs, but it is fucked up there. They don't need pubs and bottle shops on every corner. It isn't helping.
People (indigenous and alien) blame British colonists for destroying Indigenous culture. The little I know about native American history revolves around stuff I've seen in US film/TV. Having investigated Australian history somewhat, what we did pales in comparison to the British colonists who established the USA. Australia has a bade reputation that it doesn't deserve.
-=SS=- said:
Always key to remember that Australia isn't really 'Australia', but actually England's (the Crown's) penal colony v0.1. It is literally the very worst distillation of our social structure, with its leaders really being not much more than the prison guards and enforcers of the Crown's will, and then all the criminals who were British subjects who have passed on the mental scars downstream to their offspring. A bright and sunny nation, founded in darkness.
The actions of the Australian state during covid demonstrated this simple truth. I think a lot of people outside Australia were surprised by just how mental they showed themselves to be, despite these tendencies being hardwired in the nations DNA. And they'll do it again, and worse, next time. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, all these countries went mental because they are Crown colonies. It's not rocket science. All their evil stems from here (England), where methodical masochism and barbarism has been honed to a fine art - we hate seeing others being happy or succeeding (tall poppy syndrome), because we ourselves have been corrupted by an external power. It's begun to surface again recently here at home, where our leaders seem to be turning the screws to make life even more miserable for the subjects.
As for the COVID stuff, there was definitely government overreach but I think you're being a bit dramatic.
You might be a self-hating white person... Or is it just the Commonwealth you hate?
You should be proud.
I am.
Xorkoth said:
*centuries of systemic oppresion*
*culture drinks to cope*
I know! Let's illegalize alcohol! But just for them! Cheers, mate! *glugglugluglug*
...
Now they're largely on reservations, and the situation there is really bad, or so I hear, I have no personal experience, but my ex-wife's cousin's mom lived on one so I heard a lot. A lot of anger, obviously, and it seems like a massive amount of alcoholism. Not surprising, but really sad.
If alcohol is as much of a problem in native American communities as it is in Indigenous Australian communities, why (when all other drugs are illegal) should it be legal?
I think we'd generally be better off - all of us - without alcohol. You could replace it with any of the mainstream natural psychedelics (as the only legal drug) and that one tweak would radically transform society.
The toxicity in white Australian culture mostly comes from alcohol. I go to a lot of pubs at work. I've been to maybe sixty pubs in the past half year. There are always miserable drunks that say fuck every three words who are inches away from a fight. Insecure testosterone-fuelled animals, talking shit like their mouths are assholes.
What people describe as male toxicity isn't how men are naturally. It's a culture of shit.
If you give someone acid in a safe controlled environment where they feel calm and they're not conflicted, you will see their true state.
I don't want my kids drinking alcohol excessively, but I'm not going to tell them not to drink ever. I haven't had a drink in nine months, but I'm determined to conquer my drinking problems so I will return at some point.
I will say to my kids: don't do crack or heroin or meth ever... and never use needles.
If a community wants to reach it's full potential, the leaders of that community need to think about what's best. This is a trial and error process.
The crime in Alice is already down.
Some people - like those who don't drink and are sick of the chaos - are thankful.
The crime crisis sweeping Alice Springs has seen a "dramatic improvement" since the introduction of a two-day ban on takeaway alcohol as a decision looms over whether to reinstate blanket liquor restrictions.
www.skynews.com.au
“Domestic violence incidents which were running extremely high were much, much, lower as well about a quarter of what they were," he said.
How is the legal sale of alcohol more of a priority than domestic violence, assault and armed break ins?
If prohibition works, it works. If it doesn't it doesn't.
I'm not even slightly racist towards Indigenous Australians. I'm sympathetic. I'd like to help. We'd all like to help... but, there's only so much you can do.
I'm not related to colonists. My family has only been here for four or five generations. Most of the country isn't related to colonists.
It seems cruel to not try and help, but - like I said - what can you do?
Foreigner said:
Australia is such a shit hole of a country. I have never seen such a bunch of bushwhacking, redneck, racist, control-freak losers in a government as I have watching their politicians giving press conferences. My opinion of Oz was already low but after seeing what went on there during the pandemic, I have written it off as a place that I will ever consider visiting in a million years. This colonial shit of banning alcohol for the Aborigines is just par for the course in their degenerate neck of the woods.
This is by far the most racist comment in the thread. Congratulations.
I'm proud to call myself an Australian.
I'd rather be Australian than any other nationality on the planet.
If I was English, I'd be proud too.
Our politicians are ridiculous and embarrassing. I hate Australian politics, but there are a lot of great things about this country.
We overreach with pandemics - sure - but we also overreach with care and support. You don't have to worry when you live here. That's why people are generally happier here, despite all the bushwacking and what not. We've got plenty of miserable people, but we're happier (I think) than the British or the Americans. Generally speaking. On average, or whatever. I'm very stoned.
I work in disability. Most people I support don't use all of their funding because it is more than they need. That's the way it should be. The cost of living is high, but the money is well spent IMO.
I've lived in four countries on four continents. I love all of them in different ways.
You
should come visit us.
We like foreigners.
...
For the record, I think this thread is fine. I don't like some of the opinions expressed here about my wonderful country, but that's cool. I don't like China sometimes. Then, I remember: there's over a billion people there.
There hasn't been much effort ITT (minus the tangential discussion and the anti-Aussie stuff) to discuss the reason this ban was implemented and/or the success rate of the history of prohibition in Indigenous communities.
As I said, there isn't much room for discussion if you believe in legalizing everything.
I believe there are things that are good for society and there are also bad things.
I'd rather certain drugs be legal and certain drugs be illegal.
That's where we are heading with weed and mushrooms.