Alcohol Forum? - Split from Heads Up thread

[alasdairm]

Not at all - I disagree that tobacco causes more deaths than alcohol - not when you factor in alcohol related accidents and violence.

i'd be interested to see some background to this. i was under the impression that tobacco-related deaths hugely outnumbered most other killers.

you could file this under 'well, they would say that wouldn't they...' but, according to the american cancer society "cigarettes kill more americans than alcohol, car accidents, suicide, AIDS, homicide, and illegal drugs combined.".

alasdair

 

[Blowmonkey]

Why are we even discussing this in here?

A reply I made in a thread in the staff forum recently applies here perfectly:

why start making forums for each class of drugs? I've seen a lot of suggestions in the last few weeks regarding splitting up OD and PD, an opiate forum, a stimulant forum, an alcohol forum, now a dissociative forum, they're all very legitamite suggestions, but far from a necessity. The whole dividation that will occur when you grant everyone their wishes don't appeal to me. I've been to lot's of drug related forums where they have created so many forums that; 1) it looks ugly 2) it requires a hell of a lot of mods, or the same amount of mods with a hell of a lot of forums 3) it halts discussion about a specific topic in one forum because the member base has changed, etc, I can think of a plethora of objections. Bluelight keeps this all relatively simple and I believe it's a great (possibly the best) formula. And on top of that, IMO the 3 new forums that are coming now should be integrated first before we're even going going to discuss any additional ones.

 

[L2R]

^i don't thnk that applies. No one is suggesting all those forums.

Sure, all of the bad repurcussions to aolcohol abuse can be covered in TDS
BUT
How on earth does beer or liquor appreciation/comparison and user tips fit in DC?



okay, perhaps another thread could be made to discuss this

 

[Chaos Butterfly]

It may not fit in DC, but it could fit in SO?

I'd love to see a lot of in depth discussion on various beers and other alcohol... I consider myself to be a conoisseur as well not that I can spell conoisseur or anything... and there could be a lot of significant discussion arising in said forum

 

[TheLoveBandit]

As L2R noted - a different thread would be appropriate to discuss this as it has thoroughly derailed the thread about efforts we already have in motion. This is a noble idea, and one I don't mind seeing debated/discussed, but it deserves its own thread. Furthermore, I'm tempted to kick this to SUPPORT so the members can have input.


As for my view on the subject at hand...no comment, I've got other things to attend to first.

 

[L2R]

SO is serious non drug discussion forum. having it there would be admitting to and encouraging the fallacy that alcohol is not a drug, let alone a dangerous one.

i don't think the demand has ever really been brought forth before simply because there was no opportunity nor encouragement for such discussion.

just imagine, bluelight serving as harm reduction for a substance that is not illegal. if we as staff treat it like we have all of the illicit substances previously, then it won't be long before a part of the unspoken bluelight stigma can be lifted. no more will membership in this place completely imply current or a history of illicit substance use. whether that implication be accurate or not, acceptance and accomodation for those that have not done illegal chems will portray the openness to alternate lifestyles that many of us can use from the straights.

as that skinny indian said "be the change you seek in the world" or something


am i high? i think i od'd on cinema popcorn. the pop has digested but the corn is spilling all over my keyboard.

 

[Mariposa]

No other drug has made the impact on my life (adverse and otherwise) that alcohol has made. I would imagine a lot of members would say the same.

I think a lot of members would welcome an alcohol forum. I still think tobacco issues are better handled in the SO or DC forums.

 

[DG]

I think an alcohol forum would be a great thing. There might be more deaths from tobacco a year but alcohol causes far greater harm to people (the person in question, the family their abuse affects) in my opinion. Alcohol is something I still relate to whereas I have stopped the majority of my drug use.

Would the forum only be for issues with alcohol or would regular discussion be allowed as well such as a thread of drink recipes? Would all alcohol related talks go there rather than other forums?

 

[Johnny1]

Alcohol is such a simple drug. How much discussion could there possibly be about it?

Use? Drug Basics.
Preparation methods? Second Opinion or maybe Drug Basics.
Addiction? The Dark Side.

I agree with Blowmonkey that it's a bad idea to further fragment the forums.

 

[felix]

I'm not convinced about the need for it yet, but I do like this point:

just imagine, bluelight serving as harm reduction for a substance that is not illegal. if we as staff treat it like we have all of the illicit substances previously, then it won't be long before a part of the unspoken bluelight stigma can be lifted. no more will membership in this place completely imply current or a history of illicit substance use.

Would the forum be a serious drug discussion forum? I can't think of a hell of a lot to say about 'alcohol harm reduction' apart from 'don't drink too much', but maybe that's just me taking it for granted.

If there isn't a large variety of things to say about it, then I can see it turning into a bit of a social forum full of threads like 'what's your favourite beer?' Which is fine in the Lounge and EADD etc. occasionally, but that kinda thing isn't enough to sustain yet ANOTHER whole forum.

Do we have a demand for an alcohol forum? Are other forums being inundated with alcohol topics? If not, maybe people are reluctant to discuss alcohol problems because it's not 'drugs'. If that's the case, maybe we should just come out and say it, in a place like OD or TDS or SO or wherever: it is OK to start discussions about alcohol. You know, to see if there actually IS a demand for it.


\sits on the fence, drinking a beer

 

[alasdairm]

related reading: Has bluelight ever considered an Alcohol Forum?

alasdair

 

[Miss Peks]

I have to say that I'm definitely for the idea of an alcohol forum.

Like Mariposa said, alcohol is a huge part of my life and of a lot of bl'ters lives I would imagine. There's a bound of information that could go into the forum, anything from research into the effects of long term drinking, recipies for making beer, how to taste wine, best way to stop drinking, help for alcoholics.... the list goes on.

I think we'd be selling ourselves short by not having an alcohol forum. It's just as valid on here as all of the other drug forums and the social forums.

 

[Blowmonkey]

i don't thnk that applies. No one is suggesting all those forums.

Not? I think people have, read, I know people have. See this thread:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=292936

And there's a few in support/OD about splitting OD up. So people are suggesting these forums. It are 4 legitimate suggestions, but far from a necessity. The one about splitting up OD is the most legitamite, because you could argue that OD is so busy it's hard to keep track, the others are far from a necessity.

I'm very sorry to drag this up, but the only people I see who are positive about a new drug forum, are actually the people who spend the least time in them..

How on earth does beer or liquor appreciation/comparison and user tips fit in DC?

Because DC deals with the social aspects of drug use. A "beer appreciation thread" for example, fit's in DC perfectly. Check out the guidelines of that place if you're not familiar with it.

i don't think the demand has ever really been brought forth before simply because there was no opportunity nor encouragement for such discussion.

Most forums are created because there is a demand for it. It should not be the other way around, create a forum and encourage people to post in it. First try to stimulate discussion in the forums to see if there really is a demand that justifies a new forum, then come back with some new arguments. Other than that, couldn't you people wait for the other forums to be integrated..? 3 new forums is already a bit too much for my liking, but yet another one? C'mon, you people are a bit impatient..

 

[TheLoveBandit]

C'mon, you people are a bit impatient..

The irony.... A personal attack on my part, but one with the best of love for you, BM


On topic - I mentioned moving this out to SUPPORT for member discussion, reason being it took forEVER for us to consider making the gaming and science forums after endless discussion over months/years in SUPPORT (and even these are being done on a test basis). From my perspective (only one of 6 admins) this 'alcohol' forum concept is worth discussing but doesn't have the traction to be put in place at this point in time - we've already got several ideas we're trying to implement and we wouldn't get around to this for another 6 months most likely.

I do like the concept of treating alcohol (a legal drug) with the same concern we show for illegal drugs - that, IMO, is a good move for the site. But I would also agree with BM in that the progression of the site has been based on meeting the expressed needs of our members, and to date, the 'need for an alcohol forum' has not been sufficiently expressed by the members. I would suggest/encourage that those of you sincerely interested in this subject go out to the existing forums that accommodate such topics and initiate discussions there - see if you can get enough member involvement to warrant the forum. Given a few months, we'd have settled most of what we have in motion and be prepared to look at 'what next', and these discussions would have had the chance to prove themselves and the need for such a forum.

Right now, this thread shows the great concern by our mods for addressing an HR area, but that won't make the forum get created. On topic threads, discussions by the members both of the subject and regarding the need for a forum to focus on such topics, and the time by the Admins to review our opportunities - that's how the forum might get created. Now, go out....discuss...be the change you wish to see in the world site.



harumph

 

[forgotten]

^ Agreed. There is simply too much other stuff going on right now to create yet another forum.

There are some good ideas going around, but I think it's going to have to wait awhile.

 

[L2R]

Cool by me.
There's absolutely no rush to create an alcohol forum. Bluelight does have a lot on it's plate at the moment.

It's just one option which i think would be good for bluelight at some point in the future.

BM, yeah, I am completely unfamiliar with DC and OD. Those titles just simply don't attract my attention in any way. Nor do they speak as places to post about such things as an alcohol forum could contain. It may be in the guidelines, but how is a lurker or a member meant to know this?

 

[Beatlebot]

Blowmonkey- I generally agree with all the points you made, in fact, I’ve advocated scaling back on the number of forums that Bluelight has before (not that I’m going to open that can of worms again now).

However, I’ve come to think an exception should be made for an alcohol forum, especially if it has a HR focus. It’s something that affects all our lives in one form or another, so rather than dividing the member base up further, it actually has the potential to attract members from all over the board together and give the board a more unified feel. Whether your preference is for psychedelics, opiates, or amphetamines, whether you are from Europe, Australia or America – alcohol has touched your life in some way and you will have something to contribute to this forum.

I think the forum could cover fun, social topics as well as more serious ones.
Threads on alcohol and alcohol related topics are spread all the way through BL. The first thing that comes to mind is the very popular and oft repeated drinking thread in Aus Social. There are numerous threads about driving under the influence that crop up from time to time. Threads by posters concerned about the effects drinking has had on their health. Threads about violence that occurred under the influence of alcohol. Posts by people who feel they can’t control their alcohol intake; it goes on and on and is all over the board. Yes, there is an argument that these things are being addressed in different forums, but considering our mission statement - “Bluelight (www.bluelight.ru) is an international message board that educates the public about responsible drug use (with a focus on MDMA) by promoting free discussion.” - Well, alcohol is certainly something I could use information on the responsible use of, and yes, I think it is a bit more complex than just telling people not to drink so much. Might as well tell people not to use drugs

It seems kind of remiss to me now that we don’t have an alcohol forum. I say that if we moved this thread over to support so members can see it, you’d find there is a lot of demand for it.

However, I agree that there’s no rush. It’s an idea everyone should have a chance to contribute to before just opening up a new forum. If the wave of popular opinion is against it, than so be it.

 

[KemicalBurn]

Alcohol is such a simple drug. How much discussion could there possibly be about it?

Use? Drug Basics.
Preparation methods? Second Opinion or maybe Drug Basics.
Addiction? The Dark Side.

I agree with Blowmonkey that it's a bad idea to further fragment the forums.

The irony of BM's statements is that one could also classify marijuana in the "simple drug" catergory . . .

Further fragment the forums? Tell me, which of the focus drug forums welcome a topic solely on alcohol?

I dont mean to be snippy (for once), but i can see immense potential for the forum. If you dont believe, walk into any of the community forums (or even DC) and see the number of threads and replies. The problem is is that there isnt one home for all these discussions. They are scattered and without a central location, they get lost.

Im actually kinda shocked at BMs objections to this, cause my "vision" of such an Alcohol forum would be based similiarly on the Cannabis forum, allowing niche social threads, as well as being primarily there for harm reduction, help and support.

In fact, im a little shocked at all of you objectors and nay-sayers. I mean, you welcome forums such as "video gaming" or "sports and leisure" with open arms, but the second a forum is suggested that might actually tie into our mission statement, all of a sudden its "oh noes! that wont do at all!"

 

[KemicalBurn]

On topic - I mentioned moving this out to SUPPORT for member discussion

Please do

 

[Blowmonkey]

The irony of BM's statements is that one could also classify marijuana in the "simple drug" catergory . . .

Where is the irony in that? I didn't make that statement. I'm not even sure what is meant by it, maybe that not much discussion is to be had about alcohol.. I would agree with that, but maybe I'm close minded.. Maybe you are as well if you think that there isn't much discussion to be had about cannabis.

Further fragment the forums? Tell me, which of the focus drug forums welcome a topic solely on alcohol?

Other drugs should. The most basic questions end up in DB. The social aspects would go to DC. Addiction problems? You guessed it.. TDS.

The problem is is that there isnt one home for all these discussions. They are scattered and without a central location, they get lost.

This argument keeps being rehashed everytime someone suggests a forum. It's not valid in my opinion. The topics about alcohol don't get "lost", there simply are too little people discussing or asking questions about this. Before we had CD there were plenty (and I mean PLENTY) of cannabis topics. The main problem was that they were littering PD and OD, hence the creation of a new forum, to give the topics a place. It should not be the other way around IMO.

my "vision" of such an Alcohol forum would be based similiarly on the Cannabis forum, allowing niche social threads, as well as being primarily there for harm reduction, help and support.

I don't think you've quite understood the focus of cannabis discussion. We don't allow (any kind of) social threads, they get shifted over to DC, or have you forgotten that? This is the same with all the other focus and drug forums, social drug discussion takes place in DC. If an alcohol discussion forum will ever be created I don't think it would be logical to allow social discussion in there, it would completely defeat the purpose of DC.

In fact, im a little shocked at all of you. I mean, you welcome forums such as "video gaming" or "sports and leisure" with open arms, but the second a forum is suggested that might actually tie into our mission statement, all of a sudden its "oh noes! that wont do at all!"

I'm totally against these new forums, apart from the "drug studies" or whatever it's called. There is no discussion to be had however, these aren't suggestions, these are forums in the make. If there would've been a discussion about these forum suggestions I would've voiced my objections against it, don't think it would've mattered much though.

But hey, I don't drink anymore. Maybe that's why I've got something against an alcohol forum.

=