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Agomelatonin/Valdoxan + MDMA

cassius14

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
49
Hey guys :)

I am likely to switch over venlafaxine to valdoxan/agomelatineso I can slowly taper off anti depressants altogether and I Was wondering what the effects of valdoxan/agomelatonin are if you roll MDMA?
I of course google searched found very limited amount of data and usually quite old threads, so hopefully someone has tried it
 
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Agomelatine acts on melatonin receptors so it shouldn't interact with MDMA the same way SSRI/SNRI drugs do. But wait until your system is "washed out" first and you're totally switched to the Valdoxan or w/e.
 
Any feedback with agomelatine? I'm a generally pretty happy guy but anabolic steroids throw my sleeping patterns all over the place
 
I've been on it 11 days now & it seems to work wonders almost instantly... - I have a long history with alcohol & drug abuse which eventually created havoc with my sleep, moods, anxiety, depression, ect.. to the point where I couldn't sleep at night & was sleeping all day for months... - I had tried all sorts of antidepressants, antipsychotics, benzodiazepines ect... with no luck & plenty of bad side effects, - this is my 5th day of waking up fresh at 8am & asleep by midnight, - my energy is back & I feel literally 10 years younger... - give it a crack mate & all the best... - btw, I've tried mdma & ice whilst on agomelatine & there's no bad reaction, - if anything it just amplifies the buzz effects slightly... - but that's just my personal experience, everyone is different... goodluck!..
 
For being just a melatonin derivate that was modified to be patentable, agomelatine is pretty fucking hepatotoxic and I'd avoid this one really, but of course it's up to you. Don't know for sure, but might come from that naphthyl ring in it. http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Safetyinformation/DrugSafetyUpdate/CON199558

Edit: Yet 6 cases of liver failure reported. Other substances are withdrawn from market cause of a comparable number occurring over a longer amount of time. (And this one has a half life of a few hours! Imagine this substance being 24/7 in your system like many pharms are)
 
Agomelatine is also a 5-HT2B antagonist which means it should block out the cardiotoxic effects of MDMA, I think someone has posted something before about possibly taking agomelatine with psychedelics in order to control 5HT2B cardiotoxicity.
 
This makes the compound interesting, since I have been looking out for a reliable 5-HT2B antagonist for quite some time, but it seems there is no safe, selective one that is available today.

Can anyone shed some light on the hepatotoxicity of agomelatine? Just reading that liver enzymes elevated 2-3 times over normal limit is considered normal with agomelatine - and as said before, with having a short half life of 1-2h .. makes it look really toxic to me..
 
^ I'd rather take plain melatonin for this purpose, it's a 5-HT2B antagonist as well albeit much weaker.
 
5ht2b antagonism (and therefore Agomelatine) blocks MDMA-induced serotonin-release. So: There is no fun without the damage.
 
^ I don't think that is true. 5HT2b agonism is not solely responsible for the serotonin release that occurs with MDMA use. I am pretty dude that a 5HT2b antagonist would not block much of the effects of MDMA. And some people who have tried the comination also seem to say that it did not block the MDMA effects.
 
^ I don't think that is true. 5HT2b agonism is not solely responsible for the serotonin release that occurs with MDMA use. I am pretty dude that a 5HT2b antagonist would not block much of the effects of MDMA. And some people who have tried the comination also seem to say that it did not block the MDMA effects.

Was that because 5-HT2B blockade doesn't interfere with MDMA's subjective effects? Or because the doses used weren't sufficient to fully block the 5-HT2B receptor?

Classic dilemma in clinical research :\
 
^That's not really the same thing actually in my opinion. Low levels of monoamines are not the direct cause of depression, but likely just a secondary effect caused by something else. With that being said we don't need more compounds that increase dopamine, noradrenaline, and serotonin levels no matter what their mechanism is. Higher mood observed after DA/NE/5-HT releasers is not equal to curing depression. Honestly, it's a bit hard to debate if we don't really have a proper biochemical definition of depression.

SSRIs may actually not be effective in treating depression at all. The increased levels of serotonin as a result of SSRI treatment may increase mood but the healing process may be happening somewhere else, a higher mood may simply allow this healing process to happen or rather help it to be more likely to happen, but it won't necessarily happen and that's what we observe, SSRIs are not effective for everyone. The same actually applies SNRIs and NDRIs. I'm not really against 4-methylaminorex (I guess you mean 4,4'-dimethylaminorex?), but I honestly can't see the point. I can imagine the effectiveness would be around SSRIs/SNRIs and it wouldn't get us a single step closer to understanding depression.

The reason for considering buprenorphine as a treatment for depression is a bit different, I guess. It's something different enough to be researched. Kappa agonist salvinorin was found to cause depressive-like effect in rats (source) and there are quite a few studies on the potential of kappa antagonists as antidepressants that you can easily find. This may still not be the direct treatment for depression fixing the cause, but I guess it's closer than using monoamine releasers/reuptake inhibitors which could be compared to shooting to a criminal who is somewhere among other people in the crowd. Kappa antagonists seem to be a more specific treatment.

Honestly, if there are people ruling this planet who really care, then why can't we have ketamine as a treatment? This drug was proved to work almost instantly with a much much better effectiveness than SSRIs. We've got potent painkillers stocked in pharmacies so ketamine having potential for causing addiction is not really a good excuse, especially if what a patient needs is a few doses at most which are a few times lower than common doses used recreationally. And the way ketamine works may be even more specific than buprenorphine's kappa antagonism.

The involvement of increased levels of acetylcholine in depression is also interesting and something fresh in the subject. (link, I can't find the article itself though)
 
Sorry, I've expressed this unclearly. Just meant as a comparison from the point of "when something like that is done, why don't do this too" - not really as depression treatment, but just to revive some quite nice, but also potentially very harmful substances like 4-MAR / 4,4'-DMAR and to a lesser extent many serotonin releasing substances which are used widely, even with being potentially dangerous.

At least for me I would appreciate it if I had some 5-HT2B antagonist at hand when using serotonergic substances. Don't know about how true this is, but I've read that even simple 5-HTP supplement could potentially lead to heart valve damage (as long as not combined with a decarboxylase inhibitor, which usually is not the case).

Coming to the depression topic, I fully agree to you, adder. Ketamine really has breakthrough potential, and what you stated about abuse potential is true.. (but like I argued in private discussion, probably if we wouldn't have the opiate painkillers already approved- from a time when all this was easier- today it would be very hard to get them approved, if at all.)
 
I just wanted to weigh in here with my experience. I have been on valdoxan 50mg - (agomelatine) for nearly a year and was very worried that the antagonist properties at some of the 5-ht sites might change the MDMA experience for me. From what I can tell there is no noticeable difference - I have taken it many times since. Also made no impact on LSD

MDEA on the other hand - I found this was not a great combo with an exceptionally bad comedown
 
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