Again detox and MMT?

[adder]

I’m an opioid addict. I’ve been almost always day by day on something for the past 6 years. From plain morphine and heroin through many strong semi-synthetic derivatives to fully synthetic ones. I’ve spent last 9 months on maintenance drugs. I gave it a shot and tried buprenorphine but I couldn’t zero myself and gave it up after ~4 months. Now I’ve been on methadone for 5 months.

The problem is methadone costs me. I pay for something I could be given for free if I only went to a detox. I was there once and I was to join the maintenance program but I passed after 3 days. I couldn’t stand being there (a lot to tell about but many of you know how it is in such places). It seems I’ve got a big aversion towards hospitals no matter what it is. I remember myself not agreeing on staying in hospital when there were some medicinal checkups to do with my heart. It’s all because I spent a lot of time in hospitals when I was a child, some I don’t remember and it was a trauma for me (one possible explanation for my diagnosed BPD), some I do remember very well and I always wanted to leave hospital as soon as possible.

I have yet to complete my application for one thing at university. Actually, this means I must be available on concrete days. This is very important for me even though I’ve recently come to a state I don’t know what I can get from life/what would satisfy me etc. I’m very nervous about going to a detox. I’m also addicted to benzodiazepines and I stay on clonazepam. Last time that doctor (is at the clinic once a week and every day on a detox) cut my clonazepam dose 1/3 down. I couldn’t sleep, I was very anxious although I was given methadone (too little in my opinion, it’s said to be easier being on a detox but when you leave it, you get back to your life and things and a higher dose is needed).

I’ve got a hard time deciding but the problem is I might be forced to go there because soon I may not be able to get methadone.

If you can, I’d like to get an opinion on one more thing. I don’t get high off methadone or take something with it, I don’t get high/whatever you can achieve after taking clonazepam. Actually I can feel no difference even if I double or triple my clonazepam dose. It happened to me a few times I didn’t sleep at night (I haven’t slept at night for like a week now), took my dose in the morning then I woke up and instinctively took it once more.

Would it be bad if I told that doctor I take more clonazepam than I do so even if he cuts my dose down, I don’t feel bad anyway? I don’t mean conscience. I wonder what other people would do. It’s really important as this time he would give me off peak tariff and won’t let me out after a week, I guess. I will have to spend there something around 2 weeks, I suppose. Well, I just had to throw it out. I don’t really know what I expect as an answer.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Benzos are only going to temporarily relieve how you feel if they taper you down on methadone, and that's only going to make you further pissed off that you're not feeling it. I would stick to normal clonazepam dosages, just take it less frequently.

Clonazepam isn't the most efficient benzo for everybody, maybe look into a different one? If it works for you (like, works for you better than the other common ones) then do as you please.

Good luck!

 

[panic in paradise]

i am simply going to say, i personally believe that attempting to come off these together is a recipe for disaster. but if you know its time to get this over with and understand the ramifications of slipping up on a dose of either med.

stay in contact with your doctor at least once a week.

how much klonopin do you take regularly? i am certain the suggested tapering schedule for klonopin is .125mg evey three or four days. it really adds up into many months if you are stabilized on a "large" psychiatric dose.

 

[adder]

I didn't mean I want to get off either. Too many things now. The problem with that detox is my clonazepam dose will be cut down by 1/3. I take 6mg each day in the morning, I prefer this to sparing the dose throughout the day. Last time I was at the detox, I was given 2mg in the afternoon and 2mg before sleep. Yet I couldn't sleep. So this is far from tapering 0.125mg every 3 or 4 days. I've seen the same with methadone there, I knew a guy who was tapered down during 5 days, started at 25 and his dose was diminished by 5mg each day. It was terrible, he kept saying he's cold and gets shivers. He was withdrawing, I know how it feels when you zero yourself and you feel bad for a few days and how it is when you zero yourself with a bad regimen.

Anyway, I'm planning to go there (if there'll be a free bed for me, it's always crowdy, junkies from the capital city prefer to come here to get totally spaced out doses for the maintenance program) because I want to stop paying for methadone knowing someone gets a big load of money from this business. Then goes and buys heroin. That way regular money go to the underground. It pisses me off. Even more when I think programs are overcrowded everywhere and there are mostly idiots who simply steal from the country and steal from other people, they're nothing else but dealers.

Concerning benzodiazepines, I took each one available in my country, a few powdered, and two I can get from neighboring country (phenazepam and gidazepam). I have no problem with clonazepam, I have problem diminishing the dose. That's all. I find phenazepam superior in nothing - so why should I pay for it? The only other benzodiazepine I'd gladly get legally prescribed is estazolam, I could cut my morning clonazepam dose to get something that would put me to sleep. I stopped counting but it must have been a week I can't sleep. This night I fell asleep but woke up after 1 hour or so. It's useless. Actually my 6mg a day isn't enough. I often take more. And it's insane when I gotta go back at the university. I'm sick of it all.

Besides I've got problems with dosing methadone. I clearly need 2 doses a day. I know it's practiced in the capital city, I don't know how about this here. Actually I've already took 2 doses last one like 12 hours ago and I'm withdrawing. I have to do this every day, wait so I take it 2 times a day and there's a spacer in time I'm feeling bad. Who else gets this? I know only people who get 2 doses a day at programs. Maybe if I got higher doses, I'd be alright taking it 2 times a day.

Actually, the problem is reaching an agreement with the doctor who runs this detox here. Well, and other things - fuck it - I don't care if some dumb junkie stubs me there and I die. Great replacement for me because I don't really know who I am anymore and I've lost control of my life long time ago. It's funny how some countries offer sets for anesthesia and it's like a button we don't have from the beginning. Life - death.

EDIT: There's probably some misunderstanding here. Detoxes here are places one goes for like 2 weeks to get on a program. And it's also a place some go for help in tapering down. I had enough methadone in my life to taper down if I only could. I can't. I just don't have money to pay for it anymore and I know I deserve it for free. I don't want it to run a 'business' and sell. If I wanted to shoot up, I could do this in a hour and it wouldn't be some dirty heroin. It was never my favorite. I don't want to shoot up anything anymore. I want to stay at peace not worrying about how much I've got left and what will happen when I run out of it. I don't want to see so many minuses. I want a goddamned minute in my life at peace with myself, with everyone and everything. I guess that's all after years in distress I put myself into.

 

[panic in paradise]

I am prescribed 6mg klonopin a day also, i usualy tak1-3, sometimes four, and yeah i can eat 8-10mg and just feel boring... its a lot different then opiate w/d, deadly, temporary insanity different.

in ' our' cases we should be tapered with valium, because of the large dosage theres more play room + long half life. since you are only cutting back, that a lot different then stopping. the klonopin will start fucking me up after 14-16 hours then its a struggle to contain myself...

dropping the klonopin, and methadone together, you will be such a mess you aren't going to be able to know the difference or be bothered to give a fuck any way.

you will walk out of there that much more free though, and feeling the freedom too. not having to worry, and schedule your life around this will feel amazing as time goes on; it is worth mentioning that, it does start getting easier every day.

 

[Colmes]

I didn't mean I want to get off either. Too many things now. The problem with that detox is my clonazepam dose will be cut down by 1/3. I take 6mg each day in the morning, I prefer this to sparing the dose throughout the day. Last time I was at the detox, I was given 2mg in the afternoon and 2mg before sleep. Yet I couldn't sleep. So this is far from tapering 0.125mg every 3 or 4 days. I've seen the same with methadone there, I knew a guy who was tapered down during 5 days, started at 25 and his dose was diminished by 5mg each day. It was terrible, he kept saying he's cold and gets shivers. He was withdrawing, I know how it feels when you zero yourself and you feel bad for a few days and how it is when you zero yourself with a bad regimen.

Anyway, I'm planning to go there (if there'll be a free bed for me, it's always crowdy, junkies from the capital city prefer to come here to get totally spaced out doses for the maintenance program) because I want to stop paying for methadone knowing someone gets a big load of money from this business. Then goes and buys heroin. That way regular money go to the underground. It pisses me off. Even more when I think programs are overcrowded everywhere and there are mostly idiots who simply steal from the country and steal from other people, they're nothing else but dealers.

Concerning benzodiazepines, I took each one available in my country, a few powdered, and two I can get from neighboring country (phenazepam and gidazepam). I have no problem with clonazepam, I have problem diminishing the dose. That's all. I find phenazepam superior in nothing - so why should I pay for it? The only other benzodiazepine I'd gladly get legally prescribed is estazolam, I could cut my morning clonazepam dose to get something that would put me to sleep. I stopped counting but it must have been a week I can't sleep. This night I fell asleep but woke up after 1 hour or so. It's useless. Actually my 6mg a day isn't enough. I often take more. And it's insane when I gotta go back at the university. I'm sick of it all.

Besides I've got problems with dosing methadone. I clearly need 2 doses a day. I know it's practiced in the capital city, I don't know how about this here. Actually I've already took 2 doses last one like 12 hours ago and I'm withdrawing. I have to do this every day, wait so I take it 2 times a day and there's a spacer in time I'm feeling bad. Who else gets this? I know only people who get 2 doses a day at programs. Maybe if I got higher doses, I'd be alright taking it 2 times a day.

Actually, the problem is reaching an agreement with the doctor who runs this detox here. Well, and other things - fuck it - I don't care if some dumb junkie stubs me there and I die. Great replacement for me because I don't really know who I am anymore and I've lost control of my life long time ago. It's funny how some countries offer sets for anesthesia and it's like a button we don't have from the beginning. Life - death.

EDIT: There's probably some misunderstanding here. Detoxes here are places one goes for like 2 weeks to get on a program. And it's also a place some go for help in tapering down. I had enough methadone in my life to taper down if I only could. I can't. I just don't have money to pay for it anymore and I know I deserve it for free. I don't want it to run a 'business' and sell. If I wanted to shoot up, I could do this in a hour and it wouldn't be some dirty heroin. It was never my favorite. I don't want to shoot up anything anymore. I want to stay at peace not worrying about how much I've got left and what will happen when I run out of it. I don't want to see so many minuses. I want a goddamned minute in my life at peace with myself, with everyone and everything. I guess that's all after years in distress I put myself into.

As far as methadone is concerned, and your schooling, you already know how tough it will be. What concerns me is that youre trying to quit arguably two of the most addictive substances. If you want a shot at going to university, do not do not quit clonazapam hastily. You take 4mg, which equals approx 40mg of valium, so its on the higher end of the dosage. For every individual it is different, but its a process, that, while one can do themselves, they can only do it if they do it very slowly, as to not feel the w/d's. When I say slow...i'm talking as long as you need...there is no rush. The risks are pretty big. Methadone w/d (i imagine, ive never tried methadone) is absolute torture, but its at least a torture you will live through. I know you know what youre talking about in regards to opiates, and i also know how badly you want off of benzos as well, but be responsible about it and be safe, so it ends up a success. best of luck

 

[adder]

I never wrote I want to quit either! Skip everything and read the last paragraph if you think I want to quit opioids and benzodiazepines at the same time - it's on the contrary, actually.

I wrote the doctor there is certainly going to cut my clonazepam dose (while I'll be there, when I leave and get on the program I will get back to my normal regimen, i.e. 6mg a day).

I want to get on Methadone Maintenance Program, I should have long time ago because after so many failures with zeroing myself I know now I need a substitute to live normally. And it's methadone as I tried buprenorphine and it didn't help me much. I was at the detox in Winter 2008 IIRC and I was supposed to get on a program after being there for only 6 or 7 days (I told the doctor I've got school and final exams and he agreed to keep me there shorter).

I'm addicted both to opioids and benzodiazepines. Like I've just written, I know I have to stay on methadone, otherwise I will start shooting up again and I don't want it. I don't know when I am ready to quit totally, maybe never, that's why I want to get on a program indefinitely.

My benzodiazepine addiction is another thing. I can't take 4mg, I feel bad, spared doses are bad too but I can live with that as far as they're high enough. What I meant at the beginning, I need hide clonazepam pills somewhere in my bag or just lie at the clinic I take like 15mg so the doctor can't taper me down to 4mg even in a matter of 2 weeks (I don't know how long I will have to stay there). I don't plan going there to be tapered down from clonazepam! I don't even plan quitting clonazepam for now. I feel nothing after 6mg, actually it's even too low so I take more often (I tapered down from like 30 tabs 2mg strength and I don't think I can push this further).

I don't know why everyone misunderstands me. Is it the word 'detox'? 'Detox unit' is a name for a hospital unit where addicts both go through detox and get doses adjusted for Maintenance Program, here. By 'the clinic' I mean a place I've got to go to visit a doctor and get a referral.

To cut the long story short... I don't want to feel bad because he lowers my clonazepam dosage per day while I'm staying there to get the dose of methadone adjusted which guarantees me free methadone from the Maintenance Program. Should I lie to him I take more than I actually do or should I try to hide my tablets inside my bag? (you must know there's no such a thing among junkies there like solidarity or understanding - if they find out I have tabs they will want me to give them some or they will report me and that means they kick me out no questions asked.