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Mental Health Afraid of brain damage after amphetamine abuse

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Alexandra_Lenn

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Joined
Jun 24, 2014
Messages
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Hi, I'm Lenne, I'm 23 years old, and I would like to share my story with amphetamines, and my fear of lingering damage. I have been using amphetamines on and off since around mid 2009. I have used racemic amphetamine and dexamphetamine mostly. I have also used methamphetamine twice. I started using amphetamines because I suffered from anorexia; it helped me not eat and stay sharp in school and in university. I have used around 25-35 grams of pure amphetamine in my life, and around 3-6 grams of medicinal dexamphetamine in this time. I also regularily used ketamine in this period (around 40 grammes in my life I think) and have used MDMA around 5 times. I have not used the entire time; I had my worst period between mid-2009 and around the end of 2011. After that, I went to university. I'm doing a double bachelor's degree (technical computer science, and commercial economics) right now, which is going good for me. I started using again around 1,5 years ago; I didn't use all the time, but I often had these binges that lasted anywhere between 1 and 5 days (usually 2 days) without sleep and poor hydration and malnutrition. I have stopped using amphetamines permanently around a month ago.

During this time, I have suffered from one short bout of psychosis for one day (which was me getting completely paranoid on a russian festival where I was alone, and hadn't slept for 3 days) - I got an antipsychotic, and I was completely recovered by the time I woke up. I stopped using for 2 months after that. My mind is quite resilient against psychosis; I saw "shadow people" a few times, but I always realized it was just being awake a long time, so I wasn't delusional; I could reason perfectly clear.

Now I've stopped, but I'm worried I caused permanent damage. I don't have any symptoms (I tend to misplace things at times, and forget a word rarely, as in anomia, but I always had that, even before I did any drugs in my life) - I'm doing fine in university, and I don't feel in any way sick, but I'm still worried I have irreversible damage that I somehow am not noticing. Especially after reading amphetamine abuse can cause dementia, I completely freaked out. My mental abilities are quite a bit above average still (my IQ was measured at 141, I am good at math, I can read complex scientific papers and understand them, write long essays, I'm into politics, I like reading about quantum physics.) - I fear something happening to my brain ages from now, or that my brain is so damaged that I am not capable of detecting it is.. Statistically, what would the chances be that I have serious brain damage from the use I described above? I understand you folks aren't doctors, I'm just curious about the effects use comparable to mine has on *average* - should I be worried..?
 
your letting your fears, which arent reality, run your life. Forgetfullness is natural and something we all experience so dont worry about that. You say your doing good in school and you feel fine and not sick. Well, thats all you need to remember. Your ok but dont let your fears take a hold of you cause of something you read somehwere that may or may not be true. If there was something wrong you would know it. Your intake of drugs isnt that large of an amount anyway and its irrational to think something is wrong with you even tho you cant feel it or see it. So ya your fine and enjoy life, dont worry so much. The stress from worry is gonne be more harmful to you than your previous drug history.
 
Well, what I know about alzheimer and amphetamine is from research papers; People who have been hospitalized for methamphetamine abuse have a 70%+ chance of developing alzheimer. Also, I'm worried about neurotoxicity caused by being awake for a long time in combination with dehydration and malnutrition. It has happened to me that I sat in one position typing like crazy for 24 hours without eating or drinking.. That doesn't seem normal to me, even for amph addicts, or am I wrong?
 
Alexandra_Lenn said:
Well, what I know about alzheimer and amphetamine is from research papers; People who have been hospitalized for methamphetamine abuse have a 70%+ chance of developing alzheimer. Also, I'm worried about neurotoxicity caused by being awake for a long time in combination with dehydration and malnutrition. It has happened to me that I sat in one position typing like crazy for 24 hours without eating or drinking.. That doesn't seem normal to me, even for amph addicts, or am I wrong?
Click to expand...


Do you remember where you read that? On the face that just doesn't seem accurate.

It's clearly not a good idea to overdose on meth, but the contribution to dementia down the road is probably not that substantial. Any real toxicity you experience will be most pronounced directly after taking the drug, and will slowly improve over time. Basically you're worrying yourself too much, just keep these concerns in mind next time you're using.
 
Alexandra_Lenn said:
I will never use amphetamines again. I stopped for good.

Source:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-10/uoia-aui101909.php
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of that group and their work. You should take a look at the size of the effects they see before you read anything into the kinds of "memory deficits" they claim they're finding (usually around 5-10% reductions in behavior). The rats are hardly impaired at all, and certainly don't resemble a model of degenerative disease. They also recover if you give them more time. These certainly aren't permanent changes he's describing.

This guy is almost as bad as Ricuarte as far as the anti-drug propoganda goes, he's just not as good at it or as famous. You're at uni so you can find this information yourself (search "Gulley JM" in pubmed, take your pick of the list), and be careful when you get your science from a press release!

If amphetamine overdose contributed to Alzheimer's in any meaningful way we would have clinical data from human users telling us as much. It might, but I haven't seen any evidence that would make me think so.

Good on you stopping the amphetamines though, it doesn't sound like they were doing you any good.
 
They weren't, at all when I look back... So, you guys figure brain damage isn't likely with my previous use?
 
That depends what you mean by brain damage. Every time you overdose you're stressing and changing your brain, probably killing a few neurons - you could call that damage. But with abstinence and enough time your brain will compensate and those changes will reverse. I think it's very unlikely that you've caused any sort of irreversible damage, especially since you aren't showing any symptoms now.
 
Your brain will compensate I think, probably through neuroplasticity, but the damaged areas, as far as we know, will turn into scar tissue and/or will take decades to regenerate (some evidence, I recall, was found for higher brain regions having signs of regeneration, but it's extremely slow, but may later be accelerated by future medications).

Meth is an evil bitch. Seriously don't do it anymore.
 
I only took it twice in my life, in low dosages. The speed I usually took was racemic amphetamine (not meth) or dexamphetamine. I don't feel anything unusual, except for some minor anomia at times (I speak 3 languages fluently, and I sometimes can't find the right word when I'm in the middle of the sentence, so I say it in another language; This happens 3-7 times a week.) - This generally only happens when I'm speaking; When I'm writing, I usually find the right word within 2-3 seconds, but when I'm in the middle of a sentence I sometimes panic because I can't find the word. So it gets worse. I've also recovered from anorexia for 5 months now.. How much damaged areas do you figure I have? Do you think my maximum mental abilities have, on average, decreased by more than 5%? *terrified*

What I fear most is alzheimer at old age (or before)... I don't want to become fucking retarded when I'm 80 years old..
 
You're concerned about your mental health and your brain, this is a good thing. It's an important organ! However don't let it go unchecked, you haven't gone overboard with the drugs from the sounds of it and you seem to have had occasional drug induced psychosis which has resolved with abstinence - this is to be expected. As for that paper on amphetamines and dementia, this is really dodgy science - really not credible work and dodgy endpoints to me. Im open to the idea that amphetamines may be neurotoxic to some degree - though I doubt this would be totally irreversible and certainly a direct link to dementia is tenuous. There are a number of risk factors and trying to work out whether your moderate use will have an impact at 80? Let me allay your fears, one could use the fact that nicotine is protective against Parkinsons so you choose to smoke all your life - you may never get Parkinsons but you are at increased risk of stroke which can zonk your brain good and proper. Bottomline - moderate amphetamine use is unlikely to smash up your brain! Eat well, exercise well, engage in love and work and you'll be ok! PS Have some clinical experience, as well as neuropharm grad so not talking out my ass (completely)!
 
I would trust endotropic. He's a mod in the neuroscience discussion section of this forum. That takes a lot of expertise.

Also, it sounds like you're pretty cognitively active. That will play a big part in healing any damage you may have caused.

Methamphetamine is a lot more toxic than amphetamine. If you've only used it twice, you're in a much better place than most stimulant addicts.

Forgetting words is normal. If you get unduly anxious I'd recommend looking in to relaxation techniques, drinking green tea, or seeing a therapist. If things get really bad a psychiatrist might be a good idea. If you go that route beware of benzodiazepines. They help in the short term but make things worse over several months or years. They also decrease cognition. Antipsychotics are probably best, but they can takes months to work to increase cognition, and sometimes don't help.

If you really want to maximize your cognition I'd look into meditation geared towards that end.
 
Thank you for the replies! To tell you some more about my use: I am mostly worried about the fact that I spent 2-5 days (!!!) awake a few times, on both regular amph and dex-amph, while seriously malnourishing myself (think 0,5-0,7 l water per day, and 0-600 kilocalories) - Afraid of this having ruined my brain. Why would I want antipsychotics? I'm not severely anxious to the point of being dysfunctional; I don't want to treat my axiety, I want to treat it's source! (Knowing more about the damage I may have caused.)

As for meth use: I have used it twice, smoked it once (around 50-150 mg of it, unpure) and once snorted it (around 30-40 mg over the evening.) - I have never binged on meth; The two times I did it I only used it for around 12-15 hours. I have experience with benzo's, I use them very occasionally to sleep early or to calm down after coming down off psychedelics. I have never felt any form of compulsion nor addiction potential in neither benzodiazepines nor in opiates; I use both around 2-5 times a year (mostly diazepam and temazepam for benzos, and fentanyl, heroin and oxycodone for opiates) - I know they tend to be severely addictive, but their effect just doesn't have much of a pull on me; I can have half a gram of pure heroin in my house for over 3 years now; My first time taking it was more than 6-7 years ago, it's never gotten more or less. It's the stims that bite me in the butt...

I had only one psychosis after 3 days of not sleeping on a russian festival, and it only lasted for 3 hours; I was sane enough to instantly go to a medical service (even though I was convinced people were out to poison me/kill me/arrest me for having amph with me) - I was given an antipsychotic, and I slept for 34 hours; After this, I had no psychotic symptoms. This was 2,5 years ago. Could you tell me more about meditation, does it really work? I find my cognition to be extremely precious to me, my intellect is my most important characteristic, I would say. Anything that helps me boost it is welcome!
 
Also, I mistyped the alzheimer thing; It was rather 70% more chance; Like, you had 70% more chance than the base chance to develop it. Not 70% chance you will get it.
 
I do amphetamines everyday, have been awake for 11 days straight before, I'm 27 , and my brain body still works pretty damn good, that being said; you need to just move on , quit thinking about all this stuff and don't do amphetamines anymore
 
That's a bit of a relief actually. It's very hard for me not to think about it, because any time I have a brain fart, any time I misplace something, forget the exact moment of an appointment or anything like that, I kind of get afraid of brain damage. It's not like, crippling, debilitating anxiety that would make me seek help from a psych/take meds for it, but it's still unpleasant. Thanks for telling me all this! Have you also used meth?
 
im currently hooked on meth , yes , mainly cause I moved back to southern California where its cheap and plentiful,.... I've been on Adderall since I was 11, and I'm currently trying to figure out how to quit, or take way way way less.
 
That sounds awful! Good luck managing that addiction. I know how hard it can be to get off stims.. For me, an acid trip was the breaking point in which I realized amphs were ruining my life, and that if I didn't stop, I would regret it forever :O
 
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