Advice wanted on MDMA use

[Rolling_Dreams]

Hey guys,

I read a lot on here but rarely post.

I've decided that my drug intake is beginning to have a negative impact on my life, I guess what I'm looking for is advice from people who have been through / felt the same.

I'm a university student in my 20s, I've been using cannabis for about the past 3 years, although my intake has jumped a lot in the past 2 years. Apart from this summer, as I had to move home and could only smoke sporadically, there's rarely a day I don't smoke, although I do confine it to the evenings when I'm free to relax. I don't feel it really harms me apart from I feel a lil slower than I used to, in regards recall and vocab etc, another factor is the cost, I will spend money I don't really have on weed, but I'm awful with money anyway.

My other concern is my MDMA use, I've been rolling for about 16 months now, on average once every 2 weeks (there have been longer periods of breaks, the longest being 6 weeks), anywhere from 200 - 500mg a session. I know this is doing me harm, so far I've noticed mood dips (I wouldnt call it depression, I can usually snap myself out of it) and I think it's contributed to my slight memory troubles. I've tried to not use it for a month on a few occaisons but always failed within 2 weeks, it's just so accessible. I know redosing / snorting etc is doing even more damage but I do it anyway chasing the high. I do however take some steps such as pre and post loading, resting well the day after and I never drink with it.

I've used 2cx / mephedrone / lsd / coke in the past but only sporadically (coke twice in last year, 2c twice, lsd twice)

Apart from that I'm a light smoker and I rarely drink, I use ritalin to study maybe 3 days out of 7 and occaisonly as a lift when I'm tired/busy. I don't find my ritalin use to be an issue but I do find it a waste of time studying without it.

I guess I'm trying to stop this before it goes too far. My social life involves frequent clubbing with friends and this always involves MDMA. I don't want to stop using it, I love it, but I know I should as I don't want to fry myself in my 20s.

I think the best thing for me is to try a month drug free, but I know my college work would suffer without my rits and frankly, anytime I've tried a week without smoking, I don't miss it, I just feel bored in the evenings and then crave it. In my ideal world I'd smoke the odd evening when my work is done and roll maybe once a month.

I know this sounds pretty pathetic as some people have real problems such as opiate dependency, but it is affecting my life so I'd like to hear some similar stories / advice. Thanks Bluelight!

 

[ColtDan]

can relate to this, im in a similar situation, mainly socialize on weekends at raves, clubs, pubs, partys, most of the people i know are drinkers and do mephedrone all the time, and MDMA etc. its all one big repetitive circle, love it to bits, but catchs up in the end. its all too tempting. best times of my life, but also does me no good in the end. mephedrone messed me up quite badly for awhile, had some issues with abusing it, especially when drunk. severe come downs every week. also doing mdma all the time. takes its toll. not sure what to suggest, i need advise on this also, mood and emotions are all over the place sometimes

actually thinking about it, i would highly recommend MXE. the afterglows are incredible, they'll probably stop you doing so much MDMA etc. changes you're perspective. look into the beautiful afterglows on the big dandy thread, that stuff is magical. no real side effects, can be used as a social tool as well if dosed correctly. its helped peoples lives

 

[snowboarder7791]

well as a long time mdma user(15 years) i will say you def want o give yourself way longer breaks then what you are currently doing. Granted when i was younger i went through a brief honeymoon phase for a while and i did notice that it was starting to effect me. I then did some research and after what i discovered i then decided to cut it way back. I went from once to month(which is the bare minimum for seritonin levels to replenish to somewhat normal) to about once every three months ( which they say is what you should do) and i noticed a huge difference... After a while i cut it back moar to about once a year for along time. For me i guess i wanted it to remain something special and not to damage my mind. I know its hard to resist esp in if your going to edm parties and alot of other people might be doing it but its not the difficult if you really put your mind to it. Get lost in the music ,have a blast. I went to alot of raves sober and i had as much of a blast as i did when i used to go rolling. For me i love music esp metal and edm. When i started to going to raves for that reason and not jsut a place to get fucked up all the time , the experience of the raves for me at least was greatly improved.

 

[Rolling_Dreams]

Thanks for the replys guys.

I like the idea of raving sober, although I'd feel on a different buzz to everyone else but I guess I could try it.

I've considered MXE, as I quite like Ketamine (god damn drought). It makes sense as basically I need some kind of party drug every 2 weeks so I could even alternate, although I wonder is it wise to swap one substance for another?

 

[snowboarder7791]

if you are going to contiune to roll all i can say is quality not quanity... space it out a minimum of at least 3 months. be safe with it, get a marquis test kit . alot of crap out there in alot of these so called "rolls"

 

[Rolling_Dreams]

Yeah I do test, pure mdma, about 100-140mg a pill. I think I'm going to try and stay off MDxx until mid February, but allow myself whatever else I want (within reason, no binges) in the meantime. If I got my rolling down to once every 6 weeks I'd be pretty happy. I guess it's not even that big of a deal, It's only as hard as I make it

 

[humblegro]

Yeah, I suggest just take a lil bit more time. Fast from mdma a lil man. I been rolling over a decade and I have done my share of drone, also. I like drone, have not had complications with it. I control myself even though I feel like 250 mg drone right neow.....

 

[Rolling_Dreams]

Yeah I did Drone maybe x10, I loved the stuff but now it's illegal , expensive and cut to shit. It also feels so so toxic, so much worse than MDXX or Ketamine. I had 2 small lines ~20mg last week and I've no desire to go back there.

 

[n3ophy7e]

I like the idea of raving sober, although I'd feel on a different buzz to everyone else but I guess I could try it.

I raved for years and years, and always using copious amounts of drugs. Until, like you, I started to notice changes in my moods and memory troubles etc. Not to mention that I started getting a massive tolerance to ecstacy and wasn't getting much buzz off however many pills I was taking in a night, so it started becoming a bit pointless. So for one thing I started going to less parties (only slightly less, so perhaps once a month instead of once a fortnight), and I tried going to a few raves sober. It was surprisingly fun!! I still preferred rolling at raves than staying sober, but at least I tried it

Ultimately, you only get one brain in your lifetime so you really must take good care of it. It's good that you're noticing changes in your brain's functioning, and it's up to you to do something about it. Maybe you could only take drugs every second party?? Or maybe, as you've suggested, take a month off. Back when I was really over-doing ecstacy, I remember taking a "month" off and it turned in to 6 months off, without even having to try! :D You'll really be doing yourself a favour, so please consider it.

Also, I know you said that drugs and clubbing is a big part of your social circle. Why not suggest a few non-drug-related activities to your friends?

 

[F1n1shed]

I don't know what to tell you bro, but there are many other drugs you can abuse with much less side effects. Mdma how ever is not one of them, you can be in for some serious damage in the long run. I'm not gonna be like first bad comedown and type a few pages of information but the research is pretty valid. If you still like raving and clubbing often, find a different combo of drugs to take so you can still have some fun or go sober if you can. You will be so much happier when you wake up with a normal mind set and not depressed / anxious and all that other shit you get after a night of heavy raving /mdma. The reward will be the following days, while your friends will be in recovery mode you will still be a happy camper : P Not trying to bag on MDMA, but seriously keep that shit to very rare occasions.

 

[RedLeader]

First, let me tell you that when I was doing my grad work, I was going at least as hard as you are in the club scene, if not a lot worse. And at the time, I was a wreck, from brain zaps to terrifying sleep paralysis to crying bouts to you name it, but now 4 years later I don't feel any real long-term effects from that time. I'm not saying it does not happen, but in cases where people really do "go crazy" and don't come back, there's usually more going on with the person than can be blamed on the drugs. When you do graduate from the rolling/tripping/RCing, just live a healthy, balanced, moderate-paced life and it will get easier. It's easy to get that fear that you've permanently ruined everything while you're past the peak of the good life, but human beings are incredibly resilient and you will be able to bounce back.

With that said, it's possible to simply quit a drug and leave everything else unchanged, but you'll end up bored, restless, bugging out, and so on. Change is key. When you want to close the door on the club drugs for a while, make as many (good) changes in your ordinary life as you can. Are you able to align quitting with moving to a new place - either down the street or across the world? Join a gym, drive to work a different way, buy your latte from a different coffee shop, sleep on your bed the opposite way. Really, anything you can do to mix things up. It will both distract you from your cravings and get you used to new things which you don't cognitively associate with drug use. Sure, you will get used to the new life, but the major cravings will abate after a few months, and things will fall into place pretty well.

 

[n3ophy7e]

First, let me tell you that when I was doing my grad work, I was going at least as hard as you are in the club scene, if not a lot worse. And at the time, I was a wreck, from brain zaps to terrifying sleep paralysis to crying bouts to you name it, but now 4 years later I don't feel any real long-term effects from that time. I'm not saying it does not happen, but in cases where people really do "go crazy" and don't come back, there's usually more going on with the person than can be blamed on the drugs. When you do graduate from the rolling/tripping/RCing, just live a healthy, balanced, moderate-paced life and it will get easier. It's easy to get that fear that you've permanently ruined everything while you're past the peak of the good life, but human beings are incredibly resilient and you will be able to bounce back.

Couldn't agree more man, well said
I don't have any lasting negative effects from my raving days either (well...aside from the ones that were already there to begin with ).

 

[First Bad Comedown]

I don't know what to tell you bro, but there are many other drugs you can abuse with much less side effects. Mdma how ever is not one of them, you can be in for some serious damage in the long run. I'm not gonna be like first bad comedown and type a few pages of information but the research is pretty valid.

Lol.
Good. There shouldn't be too many of me anyways.

Yes, I am known to type pages like its nothing.
This is part insanity, and part writing ability.
I was always a decent writer...

But listen to this guys advice.
MDMA is NOT among the drugs that can be made a habit.
I am 14 months into recovery and still trying to find equilibrium.
And the first 8 months were harder than I ever thought life could be.

I have counseled plenty of people in a similar situation.
So don't join this club.

MDMA is a proven neurotoxin.
It causes long-lasting or permanent changes in the 'brain-gut' circuitry known as the serotonin system.
This is the most dense and intricate of all the brain's neurotransmitter networks.

Serotonin has surprising effects upon circuits in the brain, without being directly responsible for any of them!
It is the great moderator of the Central Nervous System.

And it can take months of abstinence for former MDMA users to feel the effects.
Quit now and see what happens.
At LEAST 6 months.

Glad you decided to post.
Give your brain a rest from neurotoxins.
Read more.

 

[n3ophy7e]

^^ Very true man, thank you for posting that. Although I have to maintain my opinion that the damage MDMA abuse does to the brain, in the vast majority of cases, is NOT permanent. The brain is an amazing organ which is very capable of healing itself over time (which I'm sure you know and appreciate!). When damaged, if it can't heal a certain pathway, the damaged area can begin to utilise the faculties from nearby areas of the brain in order to maintain normal functioning (neuroplasticity). So even if permanent damage does occur, the person still has hope of regaining their previous normality

 

[F1n1shed]

You can't be so sure neophyte, i have heard about neuroplasticity but permanent damage is a serious term : p Permanent meaning , it's there to stay. Now we can't really be sure if most of the damage is there to stay, or how much of it gets repaired from the brains resilient capabilities. I mean it's good to be positive and all but how do you know you are not at your full potential. What if what your feeling right now on a normal day, isn't what you would be feeling if you hadn't used MDMA in previous days. I'm not trying to trying to bring you down, or the OP it's just there are far too many research papers in favor of heavy neurotoxicity. I haven't looked up information in ages on the subject, but i recall from reading FBC's posts that SERT function will not return to full potential in some users. Ah how i wish didn't dose as many times as i did, even though it really wasn't all that much.

Hopefully the OP can get a little scared by some of these comments, because using less MDMA in his case can do nothing but help him.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

The real question is whether or not loss of SERT expression in the higher brain really makes a functional difference in life...

Most current MDMA users show a loss of SERT on PET scans, but former users tend to recover this on a slow basis, with sub-cortical recovery happening within a year but higher regions taking much longer.

What is disturbing is that a minority of former users continue to show major loss of SERT in cortical regions well past one year of abstinence.
So far PET studies have followed these people up to 2.5 years and found continuing evidence of SERT loss.
Long-term studies of abstinent former users are rather difficult and expensive to accomplish, but only longer periods of recovery will reveal the true potential of SERT expression.

SERT is the protein the removes serotonin from the synapse and it is considered a marker of axonal density.
The more serotonin axons in a given region of brain tissue, the more likely the protein will be apparent.
Other factors, including food intake, can influence SERT expression on images taken.
But it is considered a decent marker of overall axonal density.

And labeling the SERT with radioactive ligands is a powerful imaging technology that is capable of demonstrating activity in the living brain.
The only other option we have, so far, is to wait for death.
So right now, SERT expression and receptor labeling are the greatest tools available.

And they do indicate that in some former MDMA users there is definitive neurotoxic damage that is detectable until at least two and a half years.
Endocrine studies also demonstrate a loss of prolactin response up to 3 years - and prolactin is agreed to be an indicator of overall serotonin function.
Anecdotes about loss of magic despite 4 years of abstinence (seen on BL) backs up this data.

With other drugs it normally takes an addiction to spell a 4 year + recovery process.
Or at least stupid doses.
But MDMA can do this to new users taking slightly elevated doses, esp. if they roll on continuous days.

Some recovered MDMA users have claimed that the effects never really 'go away'.
But they are normally in their first two years...

I agree with n3ophy7e about regaining 'normal' function.
The brain is incredibly talented at reestablishing lost functions.
It will kill off neurons and synapses and establish new ones.
The sheer number of synaptic connections in the brain provides us with an unbelievable level of plasticity.
Even elderly people retain the ability to re-wire their brains up until the day they die.

But we cannot conclude that elderly people have suffered no loss.
Clearly they have, despite the ongoing plasticity.
Exercise can make a big cognitive difference of course.

In terms of the prolactin loss in recovering MDMA users, I find it notable that even those with diminished long-term response...
They actually do improve SOME.

You can see this on the charts - compared to controls they are reduced.
But compared to current users they tend to have significant improvement, although the curve of prolactin response is different.
Same thing with SERT expression - less than controls but better than current users.

To a person living with MDMA 'brain damage' this is critical information.
The path is so much darker than words can describe.

So here in The Dark Side, I wish to assure those suffering that things do really improve.
I have experienced the most remarkable signs of improvement starting around month 11.
I am at 14 months now - and these days of clarity, of bright colors and life....they are still fleeting.
Although they do not persist for more than a day or two at a time, the remarkable fact is that they REOCCUR.

It is like my brain, my endocrine system is trying to remind me every few weeks - you are going to make it.
You are going to be ok one day soon.
When I have these days I sometimes sit in AWE at the power of the mind.
I cry and I FEEL alive.
And I wish I could describe this to others in my position.

How can I convince them that real life is waiting on them, at some point in the distance?
How do I make them understand that regular physical exercise really does guide you through the darkness?

Accepting that there is a permanent loss of axonal density in the higher brain and prolactin function suffers as a result...
What does this mean functionally?

Well, anything that involves brain serotonin involves the gut.
Sensations related to digestion or sex are probably altered in some way for the rest of your life.
Certainly the emotional potency of orgasm, or even taking a big shit, is compromised in some way.

I should share that both my digestive and sexual function has improved remarkably over the past several months!
To a point that I could live with what I have right now for the rest of my life.
Yet there is still a loss.

Cortical serotonin axons are the connection between the intestines and the higher brain.
Your most evolved thoughts and emotions, the most intricate and undefinable human qualities arise from the interaction between body and mind.
The endocrine system itself, under direction of the hypothalamus, is largely influenced by serotonin in the higher brain.

To put it poetically, serotonin is what gives us a soul.
What is a soul if not the connection between the body and mind?

There is indeed meaningful recovery for nearly every victim of MDMA.
But the nature of loss is impossible to describe.
It is a loss of visceral emotions - of gut feelings.
Including empathy and love.

Ask me in another year whether I still perceive a difference.
But over the last 14 months this is the best description of what is lost to MDMA that I can come up with.
Sometimes I watch old movies that always used to excite me, to enthrall me.
Now I often have the 'been there done that' sense throughout the entire film.
A plot that once guided me, pulled me...

I simply sit back and observe character interaction and cinematography.
Unaffected by much of it. Unimpressed by the tricks that rely on a functional endocrine system.
And these are decent movies like Fight Club, 300, Silence of the Lambs...some of my favorites.
Its like I always have this sense of having seen it too many times - when this never happened to me before.
I know this is a part of getting older, but I must admit that the effect is so strong sometimes that it puts a wall between me and the experience I know I should have.
Same thing with music that used to excite me.
Its not that I don't enjoy it - because I do.
But it just isn't the same some days.

The real miracle, the real sign of 'plasticity' is that some days I do feel it.
The movie or song gets me revved up and excited!
What a strange breakthrough it can be.
What a cruel and precious reminder of what life used to be.
And may one day be again...

 

[F1n1shed]

Damn inspiring stuff FBC, i can really correlate and understand what you are trying to get across. Although i have used MDMA much more recently than you have, i remember taking a long break before and remember getting this certain glow back in my days that wouldn't happen when i was in the recovery stages of MDMA. I'm currently on an SSRI now (sertraline) which i never thought i would have been taking but it is helping a good amount. I actually went in the psyches office to get benzos but they thought i would abuse them so i ended up with this : / Hopefully this SSRI will not slow down natural serotonin recovery too much as it is just an inhibitor not a releaser of serotonin. Plus before it i had been rolling much less frequently so i guess it's chill.

 

[BottleOfOxy]

This part scared me before I finished reading the sentence and understood what you meant hahaha>>

I've been rolling for about 16 months now

But yeah I can put myself in your shoes because I'm probably about the same age but i've been using this kinda shit for a while and mdma used to be my #1 favorite. Anyway I don't think I used it nearly as much as many of my friends have at this point but after a while it loses it's magic and there is more of a bodyload/comedown after prolonged use. So not only will you enjoy it less but it will make you feel shitter and shitter. I wouldn't nessesscarily say i regret my mdma/mda use... actually now that i write that down i kinda do. Not the fact that I fucked over mdma for me forever (because I just kinda had enough) but that I didn't spread out the good experiences more. It's worth saving; I can honestly say I don't even really like taking molly, or anything rolling related, anymore.