Adrenal Fatigue

[Corazon]

Seems to be pretty common from stimulants and stress these days. Experiences? How did you treat it ?


I think I'm going through a harsh round of it at the moment. Very stressful with life and work lately. Been consuming a lot of coffee(1pot a day) and energy drinks.
1st I tried using the energy drinks because I was so fatigued. Helped the first day, and then became tolerant to all but some peripheral effect. Quit the energy drinks a week ago. Rationalized that maybe my coffee was crap - switched to an arabica bean coffee, and other than being much better quality, it didn't really revive my energy.

In the past I've had days like this, which normalized with healthier habits and rest. This time it has been dragging on, and more severe.

Trying to tough it out and doing some yard work in the heat. Extremely fatigued from the moment I woke up.
Had 1 cup of coffee today. I think I have to quit all coffee for about a week at least.

drinking a fair amount of water now.

Also put about a teaspoon of salt in a bottled water, as I am sweating from the yard work cardio, and I googled that sodium can help some with adrenal fatigue. Will try this 2 x a day.
I also had a banana.

Thinking about picking up some melatonin and trying to sleep earlier tonight. I don't want to add too many substances to the mix.

A little worried about the fatigue, but I figure I should give it a week with no coffee and see the results.


How do you guys deal with adrenal fatigue??

 

[Tussmann]

Adrenal fatigue is along the same line of "toxins" in the body. It is a bullshit term. What's happening is receptor downregulation. You have one real choice in this scenario -- you must slowly taper off the stimulant.

The far worse, yet other common option, is to up the dose and/or chose another common stimulant i.e. ephedrine.

 

[Joeof1]

^^^ Speaks the truth.

 

[Corazon]

Adrenal fatigue is along the same line of "toxins" in the body. It is a bullshit term. What's happening is receptor downregulation. You have one real choice in this scenario -- you must slowly taper off the stimulant.

The far worse, yet other common option, is to up the dose and/or chose another common stimulant i.e. ephedrine.

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense.

I'm at the point now, where a pot of coffee just makes me more relaxed. No euphoria, no energy. I literally would have to brew more and chug it, if I wanted to feel stimulated(probably would feel sick before any energy effect).

Would quitting cold-turkey work ? I don't mind a few more hellish days if it leads out of this tunnel.
I know with stronger stimulants, a slow taper is probably easier on the receptors.

 

[Foreigner]

Coffee will only provide you with diminishing returns because it's a stimulant. It doesn't replenish the adrenals, it just overworks them again.

Adrenal fatigue is not the same as toxicity. People who have never done drugs in their life experience adrenal burnout from overworking, lack of sleep, excessive stress, etc. The most non-drug related reason that adrenals burn out is long-term production and exposure to endogenous cortisol.

The main ways that the adrenals can be restored is:
1) Avoid the source of the drain, including the drugs or lifestyle factors that caused it. Avoid stimulants especially.
2) Ensuring that you are getting proper rest as well as proper activity. The adrenals don't recover if you continue to over-work or stress.
3) Learn grounding exercises (like meditation), and try to learn how to process stress differently. If you over-react to every bad thing that happens, then your mind is teaching your body to freak out constantly.
4) A regular, healthy diet with a wide spectrum of nutritious foods is essential.
5) You may take some adrenal herbs, such as rhodiola, schisandra, gynostemma, panax ginseng, rehmannia, astragalus, etc. but it's better to take these under the supervision of someone trained in their use, because they all have contraindications. Be warned, adrenal herbs mostly increase adrenal function. If you are resting, eating properly, and managing day to day stress, then this increased adrenal activity will heal your adrenals. On the other hand, if you use adrenal herbs as stimulants to bring you up when you're down, and don't modify lifestyle, you'll burn them out twice as fast. This problem relates to the dangers of excessive tonifying in herbal theory.

Adrenal herbs should be your last resort, after you've done everything else.

 

[Maya]

Coffee will only provide you with diminishing returns because it's a stimulant. It doesn't replenish the adrenals, it just overworks them again.

Adrenal fatigue is not the same as toxicity. People who have never done drugs in their life experience adrenal burnout from overworking, lack of sleep, excessive stress, etc. The most non-drug related reason that adrenals burn out is long-term production and exposure to endogenous cortisol.

The main ways that the adrenals can be restored is:
1) Avoid the source of the drain, including the drugs or lifestyle factors that caused it. Avoid stimulants especially.
2) Ensuring that you are getting proper rest as well as proper activity. The adrenals don't recover if you continue to over-work or stress.
3) Learn grounding exercises (like meditation), and try to learn how to process stress differently. If you over-react to every bad thing that happens, then your mind is teaching your body to freak out constantly.
4) A regular, healthy diet with a wide spectrum of nutritious foods is essential.
5) You may take some adrenal herbs, such as rhodiola, schisandra, gynostemma, panax ginseng, rehmannia, astragalus, etc. but it's better to take these under the supervision of someone trained in their use, because they all have contraindications. Be warned, adrenal herbs mostly increase adrenal function. If you are resting, eating properly, and managing day to day stress, then this increased adrenal activity will heal your adrenals. On the other hand, if you use adrenal herbs as stimulants to bring you up when you're down, and don't modify lifestyle, you'll burn them out twice as fast. This problem relates to the dangers of excessive tonifying in herbal theory.

Adrenal herbs should be your last resort, after you've done everything else.

This sums everything up. I would also like to add Yerba Mate as a substitute instead of drinking coffee in the morning. This will give you the alertness you need yet relaxed and eased.

 

[What 23]

I can eat chocolate one day and I feel fine. The next day I can't eat it without becoming very sluggish. I've been thinking it might be a light fatigue. It has to do with multiple systems though. It might be due to a sluggish liver as well. I'm not sure I just know if I don't have caffeine for awhile and have it once I'm fine.. but try it the next day (and or the next) I might just feel sick.

I've been consuming meat again though. Lots of lamb.I really hope I don't develop and allergy to it like I have virtually everything. But I have felt better, somewhat. Stronger. Ate it more rare tonight, and feels really good. Kind of want to move to raw, or very lightly cooked. Incorporate some raw at least.

 

[Corazon]

I can eat chocolate one day and I feel fine. The next day I can't eat it without becoming very sluggish. I've been thinking it might be a light fatigue. It has to do with multiple systems though. It might be due to a sluggish liver as well. I'm not sure I just know if I don't have caffeine for awhile and have it once I'm fine.. but try it the next day (and or the next) I might just feel sick.

I have health problems, and it really sucks, but i need to live like a buddhist monk or something to be able to feel reasonably healthy.
Like basic moving around doing stuff healthy. I've been able to exercise on my good days, so that is something I'm trying to do with consistency.

Adding salt to my diet (and the bottled water 2x a day) seemed to bring me up to a half-way decent feeling yesterday evening. Too early to tell. One of the medicines I take for my heart happens to raise potassium in the blood. From what I read about adrenal fatigue, there is supposed to be more sodium than potassium in the blood. Maybe i stumbled upon a small remedy? Will have to look into buying some natural sea-salt when i hit the store (to replace the table salt).

Also with the coffee - my body must be producing a ton of adenosine and have a ton of adenosine receptors to counteract the coffee. That is going to take time and abstaining from coffee to normalize.

I'll update in a week. Hopefully have made some progress and not need to go to the doctors.

 

[Foreigner]

I can eat chocolate one day and I feel fine. The next day I can't eat it without becoming very sluggish. I've been thinking it might be a light fatigue. It has to do with multiple systems though. It might be due to a sluggish liver as well. I'm not sure I just know if I don't have caffeine for awhile and have it once I'm fine.. but try it the next day (and or the next) I might just feel sick.

If you're eating chocolate with real cacao in it, then that can deplete the adrenals. The local people in Africa where the cacao bean comes from eat the flesh of the fruit and consider the seeds toxic; yet we in the west eat products made with the seeds.

Cacao is an adrenal stimulant and the touted health effects are vastly overstated by marketing.

On the days that it brings you down, it's because the adrenals are already a bit spent. On the days it brings you up, it means the adrenals have the additional resource to spare.

 

[Dare21]

Rest is one of the most important things. Try to go to bed and wake up at the same time every day, and try to get a full 8 hrs of sleep per day. Makes a huge difference.

 

[vaporwulf]

So after many years of a regular marijuana lifestyle, my health has been falling apart recently and taken away pretty much everything I enjoy, marijuana, alcohol, and even chocolate make me feel as if im going to die. If you use cannabis regularly you may find my story interesting.

I have been a medical marijuana patient since 22, and have smoked marijuana since 15. At 22 I thought it health beneficial to quit smoking, and only vaporize hash oil and have dabbed daily .2+ every day since with 0 problems whatsoever. As of 2 months ago my body went haywire. I came home from a concert having 2 beers, and one .25 hash oil candy and started shaking, had leg pains, and major chest pain, but this was only the beginning. Over the next two weeks I began to notice an acute sensitivity to carbon dioxide in low ventilation environments (unknown to me at the time, possibly a symptom of adrenal fatigue). I also began to be afflicted by a pounding racing heart especially at night, and especially whenever I laid down (another possible symptom, from liver not receiving adequate blood), accompanied by shooting pains, loss of feeling to extremities, and terrible abdominal pain.

I spent about 3000 with doctors including a trip to the hospital on another intense chest pounding night, to find I out I was not diabetic(a curious concern of mine, due to family history, i had abusing sugars/salty foods), I was not going septic despite my concerns there as well. My blood panels were normal sans a low magnesium level, and tox, virus, and bacterial screens were normal. My doctor put me on d, and mag and I saw no difference. I then thought maybe it was PAD due to an intense pain id get in my legs whenever i laid down, but have no conclusive evidence. I then found that certain triggers would utterly ruin my night, I cant take a HALF A HIT of simple smoked marijuana without my heart feeling like it will beat out of my chest, or drink a single beer, or even eat a bar of chocolate!

Recently I took the ltyrosine-p5p challenge and found, fuck, I feel so much better (http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/NaStrategy.html) the combination quickly calms my chest, I sleep well after, and experience no other symptoms as long as I avoid triggers. So now Im now researching into adrenaline fatigue, and find well I may have been abusing stimulants and caused this.

So after trying pretty much everything conceivable, Ive come to you bluelight. Did i fuck up? What is a good regiment to fix this, and will I ever be able to go back to marijuana?

Has anyone experienced this, and has anyone fixed this?

Stimulant history:
E (age15-20) — 3-6 pills a week (quit entirely at 20)
Cigarettes (age15-20) — 5-pack a day (quit entirely at 20)
Smoked marijuana (age15-22) — .5+daily (exchanged smoking for vaping entirely at 22)
Vaped hash oil (age22-26) — .2-.7 daily (quit july 10th )

Thanks for reading bluelight, I deeply appreciate any legitimate input.

 

[ilikestims]

Informative thread. I learned raw cacao isn't healthful for you after all.

I used it for a year, and then went without it for a year due to financial difficulties and the fact that I didn't really miss it. I bought a pound 6-8 weeks ago and finished the last of it a couple of weeks. I noticed I did feel better while consuming it, but I was ignorant of the addictive-like properties. I just bought the hogwash hook, line and sinker. The fact alone that it has caffeine is a deal-breaker for me.

Source

Saves me $13 + S&H .

 

[Foreigner]

So after trying pretty much everything conceivable, Ive come to you bluelight. Did i fuck up? What is a good regiment to fix this, and will I ever be able to go back to marijuana?

Has anyone experienced this, and has anyone fixed this?

Stimulant history:
E (age15-20) — 3-6 pills a week (quit entirely at 20)
Cigarettes (age15-20) — 5-pack a day (quit entirely at 20)
Smoked marijuana (age15-22) — .5+daily (exchanged smoking for vaping entirely at 22)
Vaped hash oil (age22-26) — .2-.7 daily (quit july 10th )

Thanks for reading bluelight, I deeply appreciate any legitimate input.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, adrenal fatigue is an analogy for something receptor-mediated. It's unlikely that the adrenals themselves have become useless, otherwise you would be dead.

Best thing you can do is avoid all drugs right now because it sounds like your receptors have become overly sensitive to any stimulation. (Or triggers as you call them.)

Because the L-tyrosine challenge yielded positive results for you, then this is certainly a receptor mediated issue for you. Invest in an adrenal formula, or a single adrenal herb. I mentioned some herbs earlier in this thread. Adrenal herbs have the benefit of increasing the availability of certain neurotransmitters but without causing down-regulation. Rhodiola, for example, has been shown to increase serotinin availability by up to 30% while cutting down on cortisol which has been shown to be an NMDA agonist. Cortisol mediated agonism has been shown to cause the very exhaustion you describe.

Of course, this won't have lasting results unless you are getting adequate rest, nutrition, and abstaining from triggers. The receptor system takes a long time to recover (months to years) so you need to be patient.

Magnesium is a voltage gate mediator involved in many receptor-based processes. I posted a thread not long ago about this in the MAPS section.

Oral magnesium has a limited bioavailability. I have recently begun experimenting with topical magnesium, in the form of magnesium chloride flakes. You dissolve them in distilled water and then apply that water to the skin as a spray. It absorbs more effectively than pill form.

If you magnesium has been low then chances are the other mineral content is the same. Invest in: pumpkin seeds (zinc), sunflower seeds (magnesium), roasted sesame seeds (calcium), and make sure you are getting adequate intake of cruciferous vegetables.

The only vitamin D3 that will work effectively is the free liquid that you drop on the tongue during meal time. Solid D3 forms are useless IME.

Informative thread. I learned raw cacao isn't healthful for you after all.

I used it for a year, and then went without it for a year due to financial difficulties and the fact that I didn't really miss it. I bought a pound 6-8 weeks ago and finished the last of it a couple of weeks. I noticed I did feel better while consuming it, but I was ignorant of the addictive-like properties. I just bought the hogwash hook, line and sinker. The fact alone that it has caffeine is a deal-breaker for me.

Source

Saves me $13 + S&H .

The theobromine in raw cacao is worse for you than caffeine.

 

[Joeof1]

Bio-availability of Magnesium goes up if you take it with Zinc, Calcium, and sugars.

 

[ilikestims]

The theobromine in raw cacao is worse for you than caffeine.

With all due respect, making these ominous, authoritarian-sounding statements doesn't do much for me. I mean, yeah, there's the Internet... but still.

While theobromine and caffeine are similar in that they are related alkaloids, theobromine is weaker in both its inhibition of cyclic nucleotide phosphodiesterases and its antagonism of adenosine receptors.[36] Therefore, theobromine has a lesser impact on the human central nervous system than caffeine. However, theobromine stimulates the heart to a greater degree.

Wiki, LDO.

 

[vaporwulf]

Thanks foreigner, and other posters. Its interesting I was taking ashwaghanda regularly for months before the break down, and had stopped taking it a few weeks before the incident. I now believe it may have been preventing me from reaching level three.

I will look into those forms of d and mag, if theyre more bioavailable. I also purchased this supplement yesterday: <snip> (which includes ashwaghanda, rhodiola, holy basil, and a couple other things) to take along with my sparsely added ltyrosine/p5p ( i dont want to overdo it). I also purchased dmae, choline, and eleuthero, as ive benefited from these before, although tbh i dont know if they will help or hurt in the long run.

So my current regiment will include:
Wellness multiple : <snip>
gaias adrenal health : previously linked
alllibiotic : <snip>
DGL
Essential enzyme combo

experimenting with:
dmae
choline
eleuthero
ltyrosine
p5p

Diet:
Garden life raw meal : <snip>
garden life perfect food : <snip>
Alkaline diet (chicken, pesto, goat milk cheese, vegetables, hummus, oats, etc)

and as soon as i replace my mag/d supplements ( gotta love natural grocers vitamin policy ) those will be added as well

The hardest thing for me will be avoiding stress, my job is exremely stressful at times. Any tips on work friendly excercises/meditations?

Also does anyone have tips on exercise, I like to overexert on bike rides, but ive heard thats also not good while recovering

And thanks again for everyones help, I desperately need to get better...was in a low ventilation envrionment at a prospective interview today and started overheating, seeing lights, and felt pretty bad off...

 

[Foreigner]

With all due respect, making these ominous, authoritarian-sounding statements doesn't do much for me. I mean, yeah, there's the Internet... but still.



Wiki, LDO.

I've actually taken raw cacao as an experiment to test its health benefits. Myself and other health professionals I know all agree that its health benefits are overstated by the "natural health" industry.

After 3 days of taking it my body was at a much lower functional equilibrium and I had minor withdrawls when stopping. Not good signs.

In the places where cacao comes from, the locals eat the fruit but discard the seed as toxic. We are not meant to be eating the raw, unprocessed seed.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

Adrenal fatigue is not a medical condition and the term 'adrenal fatigue' isn't used medically here in the UK or as far as I know in the US.

I'm actually on prescription Hydrocortisone tablets because my adrenals no longer make Cortisol and I asked my endocrinologist about adrenal fatigue and they (I have a main one who's patient I am, but have seen 13 others when mine wasn't available.) said it's aload of crap by supplement/alt-health industry to sell stuff.

If your adrenals were really fatigued you'd need to be going to A&E/ER as you'd be knocking on the door to the next side.

I do know however that liquorice root is good for the adrenals (If they're still making Cortisol that is, it's a waste of time for people like me) and if I remember correctly it's also where the body stores most of it's ascorbic acid (Vit' C) as the adrenals play a huge part when it comes to the immune system.

 

[ilikestims]

The hardest thing for me will be avoiding stress, my job is exremely stressful at times. Any tips on work friendly excercises/meditations?

You can't avoid the stress. Just embrace it.

Rituals are very important to me. Tea. Breath exercises, where with every inhalation you inhale white light, peace, serenity, etc. and every exhale is all your stress, worries, frustrations.

The most important thing is to feel your emotions and stress. Don't try to bury them. And when you're exercising or eating healthful, imagine your stresses releasing and the good prana/energy coming into your body.

Also does anyone have tips on exercise, I like to overexert on bike rides, but ive heard thats also not good while recovering

For starters, the best exercise plan is the one you can stick to. Do whatever you can do consistently. Once you're consistent, listen to your body. You will have ideas on what else you want to do. Then ponder changing/advancing your routine.

It's hard to overexert on bike riding because it's so low-impact. If you love riding, that sounds perfect to me. But I'm not a doctor or specialist. -shrugs-

And thanks again for everyones help, I desperately need to get better...was in a low ventilation envrionment at a prospective interview today and started overheating, seeing lights, and felt pretty bad off...

 

[Foreigner]

Adrenal fatigue is not a medical condition and the term 'adrenal fatigue' isn't used medically here in the UK or as far as I know in the US.

I'm actually on prescription Hydrocortisone tablets because my adrenals no longer make Cortisol and I asked my endocrinologist about adrenal fatigue and they (I have a main one who's patient I am, but have seen 13 others when mine wasn't available.) said it's aload of crap by supplement/alt-health industry to sell stuff.

If your adrenals were really fatigued you'd need to be going to A&E/ER as you'd be knocking on the door to the next side.

I do know however that liquorice root is good for the adrenals (If they're still making Cortisol that is, it's a waste of time for people like me) and if I remember correctly it's also where the body stores most of it's ascorbic acid (Vit' C) as the adrenals play a huge part when it comes to the immune system.

I think the term "adrenal fatigue" is just an analogy for something receptor mediated and is not meant to be taken literally. What they call it doesn't matter to me so much as they have the ability to treat it using herbal medicine. A lot of ancient terminologies don't line up with modern diagnoses but the treatment modalities work, like in acupuncture. For instance, "liver qi stagnation" in TCM is one potential syndrome pattern that causes the modern diagnosis of "depression". Is the liver actually involved? Hard to say. But using their treatment for liver qi stagnation works.

Western medicine has no ability to strengthen organs internally, but only attacks pathologies. I would trust the advice about "adrenals" from an herbalist trained in a specific tradition more than an MD whose training is not holistic and focuses only on pathology.

The supplement industry definitely abuses the term "adrenal fatigue" but that does not mean the syndrome name is invalid or useless. In short, you are arguing over semantics.