Hey, so I was just wondering if you can become addicted to certain drugs particularly Xanax and opiates if you are not using them all day everyday. For example if someone were take Xanax every night for a week or two in a row, but did not use during the day and functioned normally could that cause potential for a physical addiction. By that of course I am not ignoring the mental addiction that would obviously have formulated but would this person go through withdrawals or anything like that if they stopped using. Basically I'm asking if having a severe addiction that would include withdrawal would require someone to CONSTANTLY be on the drug at some dose ALL day EVERYday or if users who only use at night to party/or relax/or whatever else could also experience severe withdrawal like that (talking about cases where they do not use during the day ever).
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Addiction Without Constant Use
- Thread starter SawRED
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ryand123
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Well i would have to say yes. Take alcohol for example, people can be addicted to booze but only drink it on the weekends. If your constantly thinking about about it and you dont feel right without it your probably a bit addicted.
Im not too sure about full blown physical addiction like your talking about though. But DEFINANTLY a mental addiction can set in!
Im not too sure about full blown physical addiction like your talking about though. But DEFINANTLY a mental addiction can set in!
Cane2theLeft
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People often confuse terms such as addiction, physical dependence, etc. so it can be difficult to answer questions like these at times. It sounds like you're asking specifically about physical dependence which can happen both inside or outside of addiction and isn't even necessarily required for someone to be an addict. Physical dependence is the adaptation your body makes when it becomes used to a substance and while this is seen with most recreational substances, it also happens with lots of non-recreational medications such as nasal sprays, blood pressure medication, etc.
If someone is using a substance like you're describing every night then they can certainly have problems such as anxiety, restlessness and insomnia when stopping but are not likely to experience the truly severe abstinence syndromes associated with cessation from drugs like benzodiazepines or opioids including symptoms such as seizures, death, uncontrollable diarrhea, etc. that would require more frequent administration.
Just as an aside, confusingly the DSM-IV-TR that outlines the diagnostic criteria for all recognized mental health disorders in the US labels addiction as 'Substance Dependence Disorder' but this will change when the new DSM-5 comes out in spring 2013. For anyone interested, the criteria for that is NSFW'd below for size.
If someone is using a substance like you're describing every night then they can certainly have problems such as anxiety, restlessness and insomnia when stopping but are not likely to experience the truly severe abstinence syndromes associated with cessation from drugs like benzodiazepines or opioids including symptoms such as seizures, death, uncontrollable diarrhea, etc. that would require more frequent administration.
Just as an aside, confusingly the DSM-IV-TR that outlines the diagnostic criteria for all recognized mental health disorders in the US labels addiction as 'Substance Dependence Disorder' but this will change when the new DSM-5 comes out in spring 2013. For anyone interested, the criteria for that is NSFW'd below for size.
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bzduzit2011
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I think you can become addicted by taking xanax one time. Pysical addiction is what you have to worry about. I take 8mgs of xanax a day. I ran out July 4th and was in the E.R half the day. As far as opiate pain killers, there in my opinion ( unless oc's psysically addictive. To be more specific, be careful with the xanax everyday for 2 weeks. I was addicted in a week.
Pegasus
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With Xanax, it can be hard to say what is dependent and what is not. I consider rebound effects to be a sign of dependence, so in this sense, yes, that amount of use can definitely cause dependence.
If you're using Xanax regularly at night, it is probable that you're having some degree of rebound effects during the day. The Xanax is still in your system between doses and your body becomes dependent on a certain amount, less than the full dose you are taking but more than the lowest amount between doses. You get rebound effects as soon as you drop below this level.
If you're using Xanax regularly at night, it is probable that you're having some degree of rebound effects during the day. The Xanax is still in your system between doses and your body becomes dependent on a certain amount, less than the full dose you are taking but more than the lowest amount between doses. You get rebound effects as soon as you drop below this level.
Cane2theLeft
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^ this is what I meant by confusing terms - different people use different terms so it makes communication difficult. From a clinical standpoint, 'addiction' is fulfilling the criteria listed above in the tags and there's no way someone can become addicted in a day OR a week.
Physical dependence (one aspect of addiction that's not even essential) can begin to set in rather quickly with a drug such as alprazolam however that doesn't make someone an 'addict' as it's usually defined by the consensus view on addiction being a biopsychosocial disease.
Personally I don't believe in 'addiction at first use'. People can be predisposed to addiction, love the feeling their first time and use heavily after that eventually developing an addiction but addiction is a complex relationship you develop with substances that takes time.
Physical dependence (one aspect of addiction that's not even essential) can begin to set in rather quickly with a drug such as alprazolam however that doesn't make someone an 'addict' as it's usually defined by the consensus view on addiction being a biopsychosocial disease.
Personally I don't believe in 'addiction at first use'. People can be predisposed to addiction, love the feeling their first time and use heavily after that eventually developing an addiction but addiction is a complex relationship you develop with substances that takes time.
bzduzit2011
Greenlighter
Well said!
spaceyourbass
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SawRed, how much Xanax are you taking everyday? If the dose is high enough, or if your body chemistry is a certain way, yes you can experience some of the more terrible symptoms if you quit cold turkey (seizures). You definitely need to do some sort of taper-down to be safe.
First of all thanks for all the intelligent responses. Cane2theLeft I definitely agree and understand the difference between substance abuse and addiction. Your list of the technical definition appears to be accurate but in more simple terms I usually define substance abuse as somebody who uses drugs in a non-recreational, unhealthy matter but doesn't have to necessarily have a physical dependence. For people who are physically addicted to a drug I would use the term addict rather then someone who is abusing the substance just because I believe at that point the two go hand in hand. I have had both serious mental/ and physical addictions to benzos/opiates/ and alcohol in the past, but after greatly recovering from the mental traumas I was going through at the time I am now about 70 days clean (i use the word clean in the sense that I have not stopped taking drugs completely, but I have stopped using them in an inappropriate manner. I drink occasionally socially and every once and a while on special occasions I will use an opiate or xanax. It's always all in good fun and if I have had a bad day or something I also make sure to avoid any substances as a way of coping.) However, the past week for no real other reason then a little bit of boredom I have been on a xanax binge which luckily I am unconcerned about the possibility of addiction because next week I am moving back to where I normally live and have no connection for xanax even if I wanted it. However my question is, because I haves shit to do during the day such as my job I have only been using xanax at night, so my question was really when I leave where I am now to go home next week am I going to have signs of physical addiction just from taking xanax at night or would it take me using throughout the day as well for my body chemistry to real adjust to NEEDing xanax. Also I am taking reasonably low doses, 2-3g a night
Cane2theLeft
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Just a matter of etiquette, you may notice that many people break up their text into smaller paragraphs. Feel free to type how you prefer, but many around here lack sobriety and text walls can put some people off 
If you're using a short-acting drug like alprazolam, you wouldn't really be able to get the most serious physical dependence using once nightly. If you're doses escalated enough, you'd start to feel sick well before your next dose if you're dosing that regularly so for most it'd be unsustainable to use this way because either you'd have to start dosing more frequently or you'd be spending a substantial amount of time feeling somewhat sick.
Absent this degree of dose escalation, you're really talking about rebound effect - feeling more anxious, having difficulty relaxing, have difficulty sleeping, etc. which generally is viewed as physical dependence.
If you want to keep your use physically in check, the best thing you can do is monitor how quickly your tolerance is growing.
Just a matter of note - as I've mentioned, there are lots of terms people throw around with different intentions. I don't say whether people are right or wrong, it just becomes difficult to precisely communicate and since I've had the clinical terms drilled into my head studying these topics, I generally use them (and often briefly explain what I mean by them).
You mentioned your conception of addiction having a physical component but in the field, that's certainly not seen as obligatory. Addiction is more characterized by the (problematic) relationship someone has with a substance or substances. Take these two scenarios- one person comes home and has 3-4 drinks every single day after work but this has absolutely no negative impact on their life. Another person drinks only on weekends but all week long they are thinking about drinking, counting down how long until they can drink, once they start they always lose control and make bad decisions, might have DUI's, injuries, get alcohol poisoning, etc.
Which one of them has a substance abuse problem? The first person likely does have some degree of physical dependence and would have withdrawals, albeit mild while the second wouldn't. You also have lots of people who meet clinical criteria for addiction who aren't addicted to any one substance; they just use whatever is available. In the medical/recovery fields people aren't "benzo addicts" or "heroin addicts" but either you're an addict or not. There are certainly people who ARE only addicted to one substance but these days you rarely find ANYONE who uses only one substance (except some alcoholics). Physical dependence frequently exists in people who aren't addicts and there are tons of addicts who are not physically dependent on any one substance.
Also, since I posted the criteria set above and you mentioned 'substance abuse' I wanted to post the other substance-related diagnosis - 'substance abuse'
If you're using a short-acting drug like alprazolam, you wouldn't really be able to get the most serious physical dependence using once nightly. If you're doses escalated enough, you'd start to feel sick well before your next dose if you're dosing that regularly so for most it'd be unsustainable to use this way because either you'd have to start dosing more frequently or you'd be spending a substantial amount of time feeling somewhat sick.
Absent this degree of dose escalation, you're really talking about rebound effect - feeling more anxious, having difficulty relaxing, have difficulty sleeping, etc. which generally is viewed as physical dependence.
If you want to keep your use physically in check, the best thing you can do is monitor how quickly your tolerance is growing.
Just a matter of note - as I've mentioned, there are lots of terms people throw around with different intentions. I don't say whether people are right or wrong, it just becomes difficult to precisely communicate and since I've had the clinical terms drilled into my head studying these topics, I generally use them (and often briefly explain what I mean by them).
You mentioned your conception of addiction having a physical component but in the field, that's certainly not seen as obligatory. Addiction is more characterized by the (problematic) relationship someone has with a substance or substances. Take these two scenarios- one person comes home and has 3-4 drinks every single day after work but this has absolutely no negative impact on their life. Another person drinks only on weekends but all week long they are thinking about drinking, counting down how long until they can drink, once they start they always lose control and make bad decisions, might have DUI's, injuries, get alcohol poisoning, etc.
Which one of them has a substance abuse problem? The first person likely does have some degree of physical dependence and would have withdrawals, albeit mild while the second wouldn't. You also have lots of people who meet clinical criteria for addiction who aren't addicted to any one substance; they just use whatever is available. In the medical/recovery fields people aren't "benzo addicts" or "heroin addicts" but either you're an addict or not. There are certainly people who ARE only addicted to one substance but these days you rarely find ANYONE who uses only one substance (except some alcoholics). Physical dependence frequently exists in people who aren't addicts and there are tons of addicts who are not physically dependent on any one substance.
Also, since I posted the criteria set above and you mentioned 'substance abuse' I wanted to post the other substance-related diagnosis - 'substance abuse'
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Cane, that criteria from the new DSM-V is really interesting, thank you 
There is quite a lot of difference between the medical criteria for addiction and what drug users or the general public would mean by that term.. and a lot of ambiguity about what the words addiction/substance misuse/substance dependence mean so this is a really useful thread I think.
Personally.. I don't think that in this case the specific terms really matter, same as the argument over whether all addiction/substance misuse is really physical or psychological or whatever often isn't relevant to a specific situation (interesting as that may be..)
What matters is the impact your drug use is having on you. Of course, if you are physically addicted in that you can suffer horrible and potentially dangerous withdrawal symptoms, it is important to be aware of that so you don't put yourself at risk, but in my eyes substance misuse is when the substance starts causing you problems - be that interfering with your daily life, craving for the drug, damaging yourself physically or just making your life less fun to live than it was before you started using the drug. If you take drugs can be extremely hard not to ever fall into that category at some point in your life, but the important thing is recognising it and taking steps to correct it or at least prevent it deteriorating...
Good luck
There is quite a lot of difference between the medical criteria for addiction and what drug users or the general public would mean by that term.. and a lot of ambiguity about what the words addiction/substance misuse/substance dependence mean so this is a really useful thread I think.
Personally.. I don't think that in this case the specific terms really matter, same as the argument over whether all addiction/substance misuse is really physical or psychological or whatever often isn't relevant to a specific situation (interesting as that may be..)
What matters is the impact your drug use is having on you. Of course, if you are physically addicted in that you can suffer horrible and potentially dangerous withdrawal symptoms, it is important to be aware of that so you don't put yourself at risk, but in my eyes substance misuse is when the substance starts causing you problems - be that interfering with your daily life, craving for the drug, damaging yourself physically or just making your life less fun to live than it was before you started using the drug. If you take drugs can be extremely hard not to ever fall into that category at some point in your life, but the important thing is recognising it and taking steps to correct it or at least prevent it deteriorating...
Good luck
Cane2theLeft
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^ spot on.
One of the reasons I do seek to clarify what I mean by the terms is that I've seen a lot of users employ misconceptions about addiction to rationalize problematic use... "I'm not an addict because I don't get sick" and that sort of thinh. Of course, addicts can rationalize absolutely anything so it doesn't really change anything but I just wish more people (users as well as everyone else) understood addiction better so we could promote both responsible use as well as appropriate interventions when user's can no longer sustain such.
You're absolutely right that it's basically just semantics here though.
One of the reasons I do seek to clarify what I mean by the terms is that I've seen a lot of users employ misconceptions about addiction to rationalize problematic use... "I'm not an addict because I don't get sick" and that sort of thinh. Of course, addicts can rationalize absolutely anything so it doesn't really change anything but I just wish more people (users as well as everyone else) understood addiction better so we could promote both responsible use as well as appropriate interventions when user's can no longer sustain such.
You're absolutely right that it's basically just semantics here though.
Very important definitions in a lot of circumstances, I agree, and have really enjoyed the debate in this thread. Was just taking a practical view considering the OP's question..
spaceyourbass
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Here is a great benzo withdrawal guide - http://benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha02.htm
From http://benzo.org.uk/ - the FAQ, among other things, is very straightforward and helpful.
While 2-3mgs once a day for around 1-2 weeks is not a terribly high amount when compared to other peoples' habits, you must be careful. That is more than enough to cause a seizure with a cold-turkey stoppage of the drug. Semi-stressful things like driving or doing chores could possibly increase the chances of a seizure. You seem like a strong person, and you should be able to get through the mental aspects of not having the drug anymore, no problem. I doubt you'll get any crazy-difficult physical symptoms that you might get from opiate withdrawal. Not being able to get the drug in your new place will force you to stop taking them altogether soon.
I've had quite a few friends have seizures after week-long or less benzo binges...I could only imagine what would've happened if they were driving. Please promise yourself to taper-down from 3mg a day, to 2mg a day (but not necessarily all in one day), etc so that the risk of seizure is greatly reduced. I wouldn't be so worried about the definition of addiction or dependence so much, because it really makes no difference.
You will stop taking them soon and you won't have to worry about that. Its your choice to stop taking them the right way - it could be tempting to just take your last 2-3mgs and tell yourself "so-long benzos," only to have them bite you in the ass when you wake up with people all around you freaking out because you had a seizure...emergency room bills...problems with work...or heaven forbid harming someone else because you were driving. Many people have seizures from benzo withdrawal when they turn their heads, pretty much exactly the way you'd turn your head to check your blind spot while driving.
I'm not talking about some really long-lasting taper of course. Its good that you haven't been taking crazy amounts. Some people take so much that they must taper for an entire month to safely stop taking benzos.
So, try to think...exactly how many days have you been taking benzos, and would you say its been closer to 2 or 3 mgs a day on average? You always take them all at once, or did you sometimes take 1 mg and another mg a few hours later?
From http://benzo.org.uk/ - the FAQ, among other things, is very straightforward and helpful.
While 2-3mgs once a day for around 1-2 weeks is not a terribly high amount when compared to other peoples' habits, you must be careful. That is more than enough to cause a seizure with a cold-turkey stoppage of the drug. Semi-stressful things like driving or doing chores could possibly increase the chances of a seizure. You seem like a strong person, and you should be able to get through the mental aspects of not having the drug anymore, no problem. I doubt you'll get any crazy-difficult physical symptoms that you might get from opiate withdrawal. Not being able to get the drug in your new place will force you to stop taking them altogether soon.
I've had quite a few friends have seizures after week-long or less benzo binges...I could only imagine what would've happened if they were driving. Please promise yourself to taper-down from 3mg a day, to 2mg a day (but not necessarily all in one day), etc so that the risk of seizure is greatly reduced. I wouldn't be so worried about the definition of addiction or dependence so much, because it really makes no difference.
You will stop taking them soon and you won't have to worry about that. Its your choice to stop taking them the right way - it could be tempting to just take your last 2-3mgs and tell yourself "so-long benzos," only to have them bite you in the ass when you wake up with people all around you freaking out because you had a seizure...emergency room bills...problems with work...or heaven forbid harming someone else because you were driving. Many people have seizures from benzo withdrawal when they turn their heads, pretty much exactly the way you'd turn your head to check your blind spot while driving.
I'm not talking about some really long-lasting taper of course. Its good that you haven't been taking crazy amounts. Some people take so much that they must taper for an entire month to safely stop taking benzos.
So, try to think...exactly how many days have you been taking benzos, and would you say its been closer to 2 or 3 mgs a day on average? You always take them all at once, or did you sometimes take 1 mg and another mg a few hours later?
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xstayfadedx
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Sometimes you may not be addicted to the medication but your body becomes dependent on it. That's what happened when I was taking Tramadol there was no way that I felt the need to take it but then I noticed after taking it for so long my body had to have some just to feel normal. There was no way that crap was even getting me high but without it my body would feel pretty bad. And that's how I found it to be with benzos (experienced addiction with these though).... at first I didn't think I was addicted but I did realize the physical dependence I had to them. I was taking them every other day but still the physical dependence grew to when I was taking it everyday just to feel right and fight off the withdrawal symptoms. Other than that I ended up getting addicted to those but I had to get off of them just like I did tramadol. The thing with tramadol I popped them all at once and was like fuck this I'm done. Let me tell you that withdrawal was hell and the worst one I ever went through. Sucked more than oxycodone ect. That was the most stupid thing I ever could do since I was taking 800mg plus a day and I just decided to go cold turkey. Luckily I was not that dumb with benzos and you have to taper off those because it's too risky to just quit. I know you may think you can do it cold turkey but that is dangerous and you can actually die from benzo withdrawals. It is easy to become dependent on benzo's even if you don't think you're addicted yet. That's why using them for recreational value can be risky but anyways I wish you the best of luck. Please make smart choices though that will benefit your health. You may not be addicted but you can easily develop physical dependence without even realizing it.
Cane2theLeft I couldn't agree more with the way your defined substance abuse/addiction. What you said before was actually what I was attempting to say earlier but I think i had maybe a few too many xanax to make myself very clearly understood =/. In fact one of my first blue light posts was asking about a similar situation where I had been drinking about 2-6 drinks of alcohol a night and I knew i was abusing the substance, but I had been worried if I copped cold turkey even though I didn't drink during the day time, whether or not I'd go through withdrawals.
Anyways thank you all for the good advice. As my more heavy benzo use has really only been the past few days and by sunday it will be without a doubt done. Withdrawal sucks and being addicted to something is hard, but most often the hardest part is dealing with the emotional problems you have been using your drug use to avoid. Luckily for me I have worked most things in my life out (relatively) and now use only recreationally (although I guess sometimes a little TOO recreationally when I get bored). Anyways after this the benzos are over no doubt about it so I plan is to take 1 mg tomorrow and the next day then stop wednesay. See how well that goes, dosing .5s if I'm really sick.
The only debate is after all this I was sort of planing on taking a 2 mg xannies before my long flight sunday. Seeing as im not worried about addiction or substance abuse in the sense of some A mental addiction, would that still be a bad idea in terms of triggering physical withdrawals. Ie. if I have been tapering down all week til sunday to either not using at all or only being on .5s would be a bad idea to take one large dose one day before I leave? Would that trigger potentially bad withdrawal? Also remember the odd thing is I'm always tapering for only use at night. During the day I work long hours and never have an problems or sickness.
And sorry for any long paragraphs, I'm not use to the new bluelight text box sizes.
Anyways thank you all for the good advice. As my more heavy benzo use has really only been the past few days and by sunday it will be without a doubt done. Withdrawal sucks and being addicted to something is hard, but most often the hardest part is dealing with the emotional problems you have been using your drug use to avoid. Luckily for me I have worked most things in my life out (relatively) and now use only recreationally (although I guess sometimes a little TOO recreationally when I get bored). Anyways after this the benzos are over no doubt about it so I plan is to take 1 mg tomorrow and the next day then stop wednesay. See how well that goes, dosing .5s if I'm really sick.
The only debate is after all this I was sort of planing on taking a 2 mg xannies before my long flight sunday. Seeing as im not worried about addiction or substance abuse in the sense of some A mental addiction, would that still be a bad idea in terms of triggering physical withdrawals. Ie. if I have been tapering down all week til sunday to either not using at all or only being on .5s would be a bad idea to take one large dose one day before I leave? Would that trigger potentially bad withdrawal? Also remember the odd thing is I'm always tapering for only use at night. During the day I work long hours and never have an problems or sickness.
And sorry for any long paragraphs, I'm not use to the new bluelight text box sizes.
Orlando_Doom
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I would rather turn the two things around. There is pretty much no way to become dependant in a day or even a week, but you can certainly become addicted with a one-time-use. I know that there is a substance to which I was addicted from the first use on, but it took about 2 months of daily use to become truly physically dependant (not only slight and very bearable rebound symptoms but a true, full withdrawal, in this case an opioide).
xstayfadedx
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I agree with this, I only noticed until after making my post that you were only doing it for a short amount of time. Yet some can actually get addicted right away though but most of the time you can usually quit and have no withdrawal symptoms if you only use for a short period. Yet addiction can come out from nowhere.