Addicted to manic phases

[†∆†]

Hello-

This is my first time on TDS, it seems as though this part of Bluelight is most appropriate for what for my post is going to be about. I hope I'm right in categorizing it this way, if not, my apologies.

A little context-

I was diagnosed as bipolar a little over two years ago, and have been on many different medications and combinations of medications, including Trileptal, Lamictal, Lithium, Gabapentin, and SSRI's. After many failures, my psychiatrist and I finally found a combo that made me feel "stable," not too up not too down, I suppose. This combination was Lamictal, Lithium, and Neurontin.

As horrible as being untreated was, I still really miss the excitement I'd experienced in my manic phases even though I know full well the problems associated with it. As a result, I started using excessive amounts of dexedrine, adderall, ritalin, and ultimately cocaine to restore myself to that phase that I misse so dearly, not even taking into account the fact that I will inevitably crash and fall into the same cycling I was in before.

The other day I decided that I was going to go off all medication and drugs temporarily-I wanted to see how crazy I really am, having not been completely unmedicated for years. I want to know what my unadulterated, bipolar self has been doing while these medications and drugs have been covering it up. I've just skipped my first dose of medications, and was wondering what all of y'all's take on this is. I can't deal with being stabalized, but my bipolar self is a little much to handle. Should I just stay on my pills and accept that I won't have certain feelings anymore?

Thanks

 

[adicabrady]

If you read any literature on bipolar,it would tell you that bipolar people constantly go off their meds.I'm diagnosed bipolar and haven't found any combo that works good for me.I'm mostly down and antisocial.Mania is much more fun but I'm afraid of the stupid things I do.

It is hard,near impossible to give you advice without knowing how bad your mania can be.Is it stupid loud obnoxious behavior or is it something that will get you arrested?

 

[das_feuer]

I've just skipped my first dose of medications, and was wondering what all of y'all's take on this is. I can't deal with being stabalized, but my bipolar self is a little much to handle. Should I just stay on my pills and accept that I won't have certain feelings anymore?

Thanks

I think, and know, that discontinuing your medications like that is ridiculously irresponsible and it will lead to extremely terrible things. You probably need to be more honest with your psychiatrist and therapist. You are using drugs (stimulants) that are well-known for triggering severe manic episodes in people with bipolar disorder. You are also discontinuing your medications without any supervision and without tapering down with the oversight of a trained psychiatrist; you could suffer adverse health effects such as seizures and other terrible withdrawal effects.

I know that you believe that you can somehow function better while manic, but that just isn't true; you just feel that you can.

My advice is to phone your doctor immediately and tell him what you have done. Make sure to tell your doctor about your drug abuse, too. You may need to be committed for a while to make sure that you don't get too sick.

It isn't as though I am talking out of my ass; I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder for over a decade now. I've seen what happens to people who go off of their medications. It only makes things worse. Do you want to ruin all of your close relationships, lose your job if you have one, or possibly get hurt or die because you become delusional while manic and do something very stupid?

You have a serious mental illness. You need to stay off of drugs and you need to stay on your medications. Do what you want, but don't come back crying when you wind up in a mental hospital again or something much worse ends up happening to you.

If you aren't honest with your treatment team how do you expect to get any better? Substance abuse is a symptom of bipolar disorder; you should tell your doctor and therapist about your use so that you can have that properly taken care of. The medications are still in your system and will be for quite a while (weeks to months), so who knows how your drugs will interact with your meds? Who knows what health issues will occur because you are deciding to just stop your medications? You are sick and you need help! Haven't you thought of the consequences of your actions? I somehow doubt that you have.

How do you think your friends and family will be affected by your poor choices here? Please think about these things.

I hope that you wise up and start taking care of yourself again before it's too late. I don't understand why so many people think it's a good idea to stop their medications, really. I mean, I can understand why you'd want to feel that good again, but it really isn't worth it Please be safe. I don't want anything bad to happen to yet another person who should know better. The more often you lapse into mania the more treatment-resistant you will become over time and the worse your symptoms are going to get. Sigh.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Substance abuse is a symptom of bipolar disorder

I know this is going to seem like a nitpick, but I think it is an important distinction. Drug abuse is a frequent co-morbidity with bipolar disorder but not an actual symptom.

The more often you lapse into mania the more treatment-resistant you will become over time and the worse your symptoms are going to get.

There are studies that show this could likely be true. It is not an absolute, happens every time thing though. Some people have an episode eventually go off meds and don't have further episodes. Stating things as absolute certainties ("it will lead to extremely terrible things." ) that are in fact likely possibilities can make your well intended arguments more easily dismissed by someone who is already looking for reasons to disregard your message.
Are you fighting your own demons here? People on a drug website know fire & brimstone types of testimonials already and are likely prone to disregarding them.

†∆†, if you choose to be unmedicated and use drugs to spite the potential consequences please try to have a safety plan and be ready to abort the mission if things get out of control.

 

[das_feuer]

I know this is going to seem like a nitpick, but I think it is an important distinction. Drug abuse is a frequent co-morbidity with bipolar disorder but not an actual symptom.

Thank you for clarifying. I was basically aiming for what you said. In my own experience, once I started to properly treat my disorder the substance abuse issues went away, which is why, at the time I authored my previous response, I looked at it as a symptom of the disorder. Co-morbidity is definitely a better term, though.

There are studies that show this could likely be true. It is not an absolute, happens every time thing though. Some people have an episode eventually go off meds and don't have further episodes. Stating things as absolute certainties ("it will lead to extremely terrible things." ) that are in fact likely possibilities can make your well intended arguments more easily dismissed by someone who is already looking for reasons to disregard your message.
Are you fighting your own demons here? People on a drug website know fire & brimstone types of testimonials already and are likely prone to disregarding them.

I do recognize that this theory isn't fully accepted by all psychiatrists and that it is somewhat controversial, but this is what I have been taught over the course of my own treatment. I take care of myself and have been stable for going on three years now, but I have seen enough people who have bipolar disorder always go off of their medications and have their lives completely fucked because of it. Untreated bipolar disorder is basically a ticking time bomb. If you want to nitpick, sure, this person could stay off of his meds for several years and experience a long period of normal functioning; I did when I was told by a psychiatrist that I wasn't bipolar at age 19. I didn't take my medications from age 19 to 26, and did quite well, but then I eventually suffered a very bad manic episode. Now I'm too afraid to discontinue my meds again, so I'm not really aiming for what you have suggested. The type of work that I do involves me helping other people who suffer from a mental illness so I tend to come across as being rather overprotective and nagging at times, but it's just because I have been there and I have seen so many other people suffer needlessly and it really, really fucking bugs me that it keeps happening when it doesn't have to!

To me, it just doesn't make any fucking sense whatsoever to believe that, if you have bipolar disorder, that you can function properly off of medications. I have read quite a bit about the disorder and all of the training that I have received from my job says "You have to be on meds for the rest of your life", and considering everything that I have seen, I have to agree with that.

 

[†∆†]

Thanks guys, for your information and advice.

I think part of me definitely knows what will happen if i discontinue all of my pills, but the pull to continue the mania is so strong. I think that in that phase I've had mini "epiphanies" where I decide that i want to "be like this all the time," which probably contributed to my decision to stop with the pills. There's something really alluring about being untreated to me, as sick as it is.

But when it comes down to it, you and I both know what the right thing to do is, I think. I'm just going to take my medication and find other ways of getting excited aside from self medicating with coke or by going off pills.

 

[Legerity]

May I ask what is your reason for wanting to face your unmedicated self? Do you forget who it is? Do you want to see if something has changed? Do you just want to feel the rush of mania?
Do you hope that you condition has improved, or are you looking for the extreme ups and down of it?

If your medicated self is more at peace than your unmedicated self, then maybe that's a good thing to be. I think it's important to just acknowlede your actual intentions and then make your decisions based on that.

 

[†∆†]

Well I think it's a combination of all of those factors. I think enjoying mania and manic episodes is only part of it, the other part is, like you said, the want to see if anything has changed while I've been medicated-to see if my condition is still as bad as I've grown older, I'm still young. I also have this inexplicable feeling that I'm forgetting who I am by feeling stable. I think das feuer is right about it being irresponsible to discontinue medications all of a sudden, and if I attempt to go off briefly, I'd taper the dosage over a period of time. But I'm not really sure which route I'm going to go. I know that the responsible thing is to take my medications and be happy that I am not going to have episodes and do something destructive, but hell, a lot of the most important that people have done would be considered irresponsible

not that there's anything inherently good about being irresponsible, I just meant that sometimes you have to follow your intuition even if it seems to be a risk...


Please don't double post. Please read Greenlighters guide to Bluelight etiquette - PA

 

[Legerity]

not that there's anything inherently good about being irresponsible, I just meant that sometimes you have to follow your intuition even if it seems to be a risk...

I've gone though an experience lately that I intuitively felt was right although the risks of my choices would probably seem to be too high. But still, up until now I feel that my decisions have led to a lot of growth and maturity. A big part of it was learning about myself, like you seem to be trying to do.

I guess I don't feel comfortable telling you it is a good or bad idea, I don't know enough about your conditions and medications. I would just suggest that if you finally do decide to take the risk - to be followed while you taper so to avoid any extreme reactions. Would you also be willing to go back on them if you saw that it was a problem?

 

[†∆†]

Yes I would be willing, absolutely. I guess what makes it feel more safe is the fact that if anything goes drastically wrong I can just go back to what I'm doing now

 

[Legerity]

I'm certain that you can decide what is best for you. Sometimes we learn a lot from risky decisions. And other times they're probably not work it. You can figure out what is best for you

 

[leiphos]

wow, I did the same thing very recently too. I talked about in my thread on this board called "going crazy on purpose". I was also on Lithium and Lamical, and stopped them simultaniously for adderall, and also Wellbutrin which last time I was on it threw me into a manic phase

and yes, it's coming back. I stay up all night, or sleep a couple hours, and find myself totally energized, even w/o the amps. but also some other issues like I quit my job on a whim and running off on a road trip soon / skipping out on school & life haha. also my girlfriend thinks Im delusional, but I think it's her

it's amazing, mania is great for artists too. Virginia Woolf wrote all her novels while manic. I am getting so much shit done. wow

but just watch out for the lamictal. cold turkey I got burned on the w/ds so I rapid tapered and am all good now. but it can actually make you really down and lethargic with its w/d's, so that wont help the mania high tbh

edit - nice username!

 

[calmAnimal]

i diagnosed with "moodswings" or some shit like that. basically one step below bipolar. any way i the rushing feeling i get. i cant even imagine how it is bipolar. i guess just alot more uncontrolable. fucking double edged sword

 

[paranoid android]

Ive struggled with bipolar for a long time now. I don't know when the bipolar started but i know i remember thinking aboout suicide as far back as when i was 11 years old. I personally hate mania and if i never get mania or hypomania again i'll be happy. I also get mixed states which are nothing short of torture and most of my manic episodes make me feel really edgy and on the verge of psychosis. This is not to mention all the stupid things i do while manic.

Take the meds you need to control your bipolar. Taking stimulants to induce mania is asking for trouble. It is way too easy to set off a manic episode where you end up doing something stupid. Also there is a good chance you might end up in a major depressive episode after a manic episode. Also coming too in a hospital after being shot full of haldol is no fun.

 

[Lolie]

What often happens in people with bipolar disorder is that they get left on the combination and dose of drugs it took to get them stabilised and that can leave them with a very narrow emotional range and no real depth to the emotions they do experience.

Talk to your doctor about whether a lower maintenance dose is appropriate for you and whether you need to continue on multiple meds. You may find that you can get by with only one maintenance medication or that lower doses are enough to keep you stable without blunting your feelings so much.

And knock off the amphetamines. Apart from anything else, the high they induce is a poor substitute for naturally occurring hypomania and a crash is inevitable. For a lot of people, hypomania isn't much of a problem and they function perfectly well in a hypomanic state - it's tripping over the line into mania which is dangerous.

My doctor's fine with me being somewhat hypomanic, but I have standing orders to contact him if I have more than four nights of insomnia in a row or if I feel particularly up or down for more than a few days so that he can assess whether I'm slipping into mania or depression and adjust my meds accordingly. And I'm fine with that - I know that my own judgement is impaired in either of those states so I'm happy to trust his.

 

[†∆†]

Update- I'm taking much less medication now, I'm still on a low-dose of the lithium and lamictal but the dosage has made me feel less washed out. Lolie I think you're definitely right about the narrow emotional range, that was probably part of the problem that I wasn't articulating earlier.

That being said, I still can get into these phases where I'm kind of irritable and yell at people, but in a weird sort of way that anger is kind of addicting to me, and I don't know why that is. That sort of edgy, I want-to-scream-at-everyone state that I experience is something that I enjoy, it seems a little messed up.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I was diagnosed bipolar @ 16 and then schizo-affective later. I'm 43 now. I have some bad news that isn't just based on my personal experience alone but also on psychiatric literature. The older you get the more mania will manifest as irritability rather than euphoria. Its one of those things that sucks about aging like extra ear & nose hair. As the Stones said once upon a time:"What a drag it is getting old".

Now, psychiatric literature and my episodic data from my life and others I know does not constitute a reliable prediction for any particular individual. I'm just giving a heads up that like early psychedelic trips vs later,mania tends to get less pure and more unpleasant for many people as time goes on.

 

[Lolie]

I was diagnosed bipolar @ 16 and then schizo-affective later. I'm 43 now. I have some bad news that isn't just based on my personal experience but also on psychiatric literature. The older you get the more mania will manifest as irritability rather than euphoria. Its one of those things that sucks about aging like extra ear & nose hair. As the Stones said once upon a time:"What a drag it is getting old".

Now, psychiatric literature and my episodic data from my life and others I know does not constitute a reliable prediction for any particular individual. I'm just giving a heads up that like early psychedelic trips vs later,mania tends to get less pure and more unpleasant for many people as time goes on.

50 year old checking in here. In addition to the above, the frequency of episodes tends to increase after middle age and so does the incidence of mixed episodes - the suicide risk rises dramatically too.

 

[†∆†]

The mixed episodes have actually increased more with the more drugs i use, i did coke tonight and it wasn't fun at all, the comedown is horrible and it doesn't really even make me manic anymore (this is the same exact coke i've been doing for a while) i just feel wired but also sad simultaneously. i still can't stop, though

 

[Lolie]

The mixed episodes have actually increased more with the more drugs i use, i did coke tonight and it wasn't fun at all, the comedown is horrible and it doesn't really even make me manic anymore (this is the same exact coke i've been doing for a while) i just feel wired but also sad simultaneously. i still can't stop, though

Any stimulant carries the risk of inducing a mixed episode or a full psychotic episode. All of us seem to have a range within which we can usually self-correct our swings up or down, but we also seem to have a point of no return - and if you can't stop the coke even though it's not giving you the up and the down is terrible then you may have passed that point.

You really need to check in with your doctor. A mixed episode isn't likely to improve on its own and right now you're self-aware enough to be able to seek help - there's no guarantee that you won't lose that insight in the coming days.

I know you probably want us to tell you that you'll be just fine without seeking outside help, but that's just not the nature of mixed episodes - they're fucking dangerous and they always warrant outside intervention.