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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids Addicted to kratom for 8 years daily...

intergalacticBG

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 16, 2025
Messages
20
As the title says, I've been taking kratom daily for about 8 years. I'm highly dependent and addicted to it.

I know this probably sounds dumb as fuck, considering I've read Subs are incredibly strong, but would very low low dose suboxone be something that could help me?

I take small doses throughout the day, usually to the tune of 1.5G 6X a day. But it's a constant part of my day and life and I'm just tired of doing it all the fucking time.

I also am on 3.8MG of Diazepam or so (in the midst of a very long taper over years) and also take 20MG prozac.

Would it be really dumb for me to do this? Kratom is just so fickle and I have so many bags from so many different vendors, I feel tapering it would be difficult. But maybe I haven't tried hard enough.

Appreciate any input and info.
 
Dude just lower your dose for a couple weeks and then stop, deal with a couple sweaty/sleepless nights and be done with it. Drugs with a slow onset of action (IE: not within 30 seconds) are a lot easier to kick than eg nicotine.
 
Kratom is one of the very few opiates I can ween myself off of without to much trouble. Ive taken it on and off for about the same amount of time. I usually start by dropping my dose in half, it sucks af first, but my body is able to handle a pretty big drop at first. Deal with that for like a week and then start dropping down by about 25% per week. It takes a little while, but it's super easy compared to other opiates.

Bupe, IMHO, is way more physically addictive. I would rather switch from bupe to kratom for getting clean than the other way around.
 
Hey @intergalacticBG

I've read other peoples' responses here. I'll give you mine as well.

The nature of Kratom use is, as you've described, chaotic. There are different vendors, different stated potencies and the ever-present fact that you're not dealing with a pharmaceutical product, but raw plant matter. Even that lifelong Kratom farmer with the famous green thumb is not going to be able to grow Kratom and then slap a "3g of alkaloids per 5oz". The best they can do is maybe tell you if its weak, strong or somewhere in the middle.

As you've stated, this makes tapering properly exceedingly difficult. I often have people use volumetric dosing with their pharmaceutical Opioids over periods of months to allow them to make extremely fine drops that are ideally imperceptible. How on earth could you do this with Kratom? Maybe if you had the same cultivar in a massive quantity you could make enough of a standardized product to do this, though the fact that you're dealing with plant matter means it's more difficult to make a standardized, reliable solution.

That's not even touching upon the psychological bullshit that comes with this form of substance. As addicts, we have basically no self-control regarding our drugs of choice. It's a fine thought that we all cling to, "maybe one day, I will just about face, gain self-control and taper myself off over the course of the labor day weekend". I have rarely seen people truly withdraw without something, someone in their life taking part of the control away from them.

This can be as simple as throwing drugs away, putting them literally out of your possession with no easy way of getting more. This could be trusting a person to ration things to you. This could be ending up in a locked detox center where the process of leaving can't just be accomplished on a whim, but requires several hours and conversations with doctors.

If you just have a bag od Kratom in front of you and maybe a measuring spoon, what's stopping you from saying "oh well, maybe just a little bit more, I do have to go to sleep, I do have to take the kids today, my boss is mad at me, I hate my fucking life anyway who cares". You can always start the hard shit at a later time. We are humans and we spend sometimes our entire lives, decades preparing to do the hard shit until we are on our deathbeds. We plan to tell the woman we love how we feel every day until your life is over and you're still alone. The painful irony of life.

Buprenorphine

Buprenorphine has many advantages. One is that it is extremely easy to obtain. A person on Buprenorphine can be reasonably certain that they can have ready access to a pharmaceutical form of the drug for the rest of their lives if needed. There is no Kratom user, Heroin addict in this world who has that kind of surety.

I understad you have been dependent for a long time. Luckily, Kratom is not Fentanyl or a Nitazene. It is still a comparatively mild Opioid (Mitragynine that is). See, we are now seeing that for users of the more potent Opioids, Buprenorphine is simply not strong enough and thus not suitable for their treatment. Even doses of Methadone as high as 300mg are not enough in some cases, but I digress. This should give you a small amount of hope knowing you're not in the most serious cadre of dependency.

Buprenorphine, as a standardized pharmaceutical will give you things you don't have right now, like knowledge, surety and control. You know exactly how much to take. You know that to take more is wrong and against your stated goals. There is no "maybe a little more, maybe a little less", it is black and white.

This is something I feel you could accomplish with enough grit and determination. I know you can because I've done it and I'm a weak little shit. Imagine what you would be capable of? If you want to talk about it, let me know. I don't mind helping you out dude.
 
Hey @intergalacticBG

I've read other peoples' responses here. I'll give you mine as well.

The nature of Kratom use is, as you've described, chaotic. There are different vendors, different stated potencies and the ever-present fact that you're not dealing with a pharmaceutical product, but raw plant matter. Even that lifelong Kratom farmer with the famous green thumb is not going to be able to grow Kratom and then slap a "3g of alkaloids per 5oz". The best they can do is maybe tell you if its weak, strong or somewhere in the middle.

As you've stated, this makes tapering properly exceedingly difficult. I often have people use volumetric dosing with their pharmaceutical Opioids over periods of months to allow them to make extremely fine drops that are ideally imperceptible. How on earth could you do this with Kratom? Maybe if you had the same cultivar in a massive quantity you could make enough of a standardized product to do this, though the fact that you're dealing with plant matter means it's more difficult to make a standardized, reliable solution.

That's not even touching upon the psychological bullshit that comes with this form of substance. As addicts, we have basically no self-control regarding our drugs of choice. It's a fine thought that we all cling to, "maybe one day, I will just about face, gain self-control and taper myself off over the course of the labor day weekend". I have rarely seen people truly withdraw without something, someone in their life taking part of the control away from them.

This can be as simple as throwing drugs away, putting them literally out of your possession with no easy way of getting more. This could be trusting a person to ration things to you. This could be ending up in a locked detox center where the process of leaving can't just be accomplished on a whim, but requires several hours and conversations with doctors.

If you just have a bag od Kratom in front of you and maybe a measuring spoon, what's stopping you from saying "oh well, maybe just a little bit more, I do have to go to sleep, I do have to take the kids today, my boss is mad at me, I hate my fucking life anyway who cares". You can always start the hard shit at a later time. We are humans and we spend sometimes our entire lives, decades preparing to do the hard shit until we are on our deathbeds. We plan to tell the woman we love how we feel every day until your life is over and you're still alone. The painful irony of life.

Buprenorphine

Buprenorphine has many advantages. One is that it is extremely easy to obtain. A person on Buprenorphine can be reasonably certain that they can have ready access to a pharmaceutical form of the drug for the rest of their lives if needed. There is no Kratom user, Heroin addict in this world who has that kind of surety.

I understad you have been dependent for a long time. Luckily, Kratom is not Fentanyl or a Nitazene. It is still a comparatively mild Opioid (Mitragynine that is). See, we are now seeing that for users of the more potent Opioids, Buprenorphine is simply not strong enough and thus not suitable for their treatment. Even doses of Methadone as high as 300mg are not enough in some cases, but I digress. This should give you a small amount of hope knowing you're not in the most serious cadre of dependency.

Buprenorphine, as a standardized pharmaceutical will give you things you don't have right now, like knowledge, surety and control. You know exactly how much to take. You know that to take more is wrong and against your stated goals. There is no "maybe a little more, maybe a little less", it is black and white.

This is something I feel you could accomplish with enough grit and determination. I know you can because I've done it and I'm a weak little shit. Imagine what you would be capable of? If you want to talk about it, let me know. I don't mind helping you out dude.
Thanks Keif, I send you a DM.
 
Hey @intergalacticBG

I've read other peoples' responses here. I'll give you mine as well.

The nature of Kratom use is, as you've described, chaotic. There are different vendors, different stated potencies and the ever-present fact that you're not dealing with a pharmaceutical product, but raw plant matter. Even that lifelong Kratom farmer with the famous green thumb is not going to be able to grow Kratom and then slap a "3g of alkaloids per 5oz". The best they can do is maybe tell you if its weak, strong or somewhere in the middle.

As you've stated, this makes tapering properly exceedingly difficult. I often have people use volumetric dosing with their pharmaceutical Opioids over periods of months to allow them to make extremely fine drops that are ideally imperceptible. How on earth could you do this with Kratom? Maybe if you had the same cultivar in a massive quantity you could make enough of a standardized product to do this, though the fact that you're dealing with plant matter means it's more difficult to make a standardized, reliable solution.

That's not even touching upon the psychological bullshit that comes with this form of substance. As addicts, we have basically no self-control regarding our drugs of choice. It's a fine thought that we all cling to, "maybe one day, I will just about face, gain self-control and taper myself off over the course of the labor day weekend". I have rarely seen people truly withdraw without something, someone in their life taking part of the control away from them.

This can be as simple as throwing drugs away, putting them literally out of your possession with no easy way of getting more. This could be trusting a person to ration things to you. This could be ending up in a locked detox center where the process of leaving can't just be accomplished on a whim, but requires several hours and conversations with doctors.

If you just have a bag od Kratom in front of you and maybe a measuring spoon, what's stopping you from saying "oh well, maybe just a little bit more, I do have to go to sleep, I do have to take the kids today, my boss is mad at me, I hate my fucking life anyway who cares". You can always start the hard shit at a later time. We are humans and we spend sometimes our entire lives, decades preparing to do the hard shit until we are on our deathbeds. We plan to tell the woman we love how we feel every day until your life is over and you're still alone. The painful irony of life.

Buprenorphine

Buprenorphine has many advantages. One is that it is extremely easy to obtain. A person on Buprenorphine can be reasonably certain that they can have ready access to a pharmaceutical form of the drug for the rest of their lives if needed. There is no Kratom user, Heroin addict in this world who has that kind of surety.

I understad you have been dependent for a long time. Luckily, Kratom is not Fentanyl or a Nitazene. It is still a comparatively mild Opioid (Mitragynine that is). See, we are now seeing that for users of the more potent Opioids, Buprenorphine is simply not strong enough and thus not suitable for their treatment. Even doses of Methadone as high as 300mg are not enough in some cases, but I digress. This should give you a small amount of hope knowing you're not in the most serious cadre of dependency.

Buprenorphine, as a standardized pharmaceutical will give you things you don't have right now, like knowledge, surety and control. You know exactly how much to take. You know that to take more is wrong and against your stated goals. There is no "maybe a little more, maybe a little less", it is black and white.

This is something I feel you could accomplish with enough grit and determination. I know you can because I've done it and I'm a weak little shit. Imagine what you would be capable of? If you want to talk about it, let me know. I don't mind helping you out dude.
One thing about bupe is that it's a stronger and more addictive opioid gang kratom. This will make long term use of bupe have you in a worse spot than you started. Though using it to taper isnt a bad idea. Don't they also put you in a drug seeker/addict database (in the USA) when you go to a bupe clinic and not give you pain med prescriptions if you need them because of that?
 
My problem is, I would've tapered years ago if I could. I feel like the chaotic nature of dosing powder all day for years has fucked me up mentally and physically.

I know Subs are much stronger, but fuck, maybe I'd have some stability?

This shit takes over my thoughts and life every single day. I know real opioid addicts will probably laugh at that statement, but it does. I'm so sick of living like this.
 
You can throw it all away and suffer that’s what I did , I’ve used kratom for 1 year in the start here and there , the same year I also cut weed after 15 years I up the kratom dosages to make for weed I would use 15gram every night and 120-150mg maybe more of the MIT extract. After a month on this dosage I woke up in withdrawals every morning body ache depression sadness hopelessness (I’ve never felt those emotion in my life) , 3 days ago I stopped it completely cold turkey I’ve never really enjoyed the drug the taste the smell the intoxicating feeling that you have in your body it was subtle enough just to take my problems away and calm me.
I’m on day 4 still feel like shit by better than yesterday.
I understand that your withdrawals gonna be more severe so just do a quick taper if you can’t toss it in the bin all together you’re gonna suffer but no more than 5-7 days physically, remember kratom it’s not an appealing drug it’s gross and we all know it so think how gross it is and just toss it all away.
Keep a benzo or two in hand for some rough nights , keep some antihistamines , ibuprofen , and muscle relaxers to make your suffering more doable .
I used it so little but I can say the physical withdrawals I have all the symptoms I don’t feel much different than cutting out dope just the intensity is a lot lower than a powerful opioid , so things to keep your mind busy so don’t think about the physical symptoms , as far as psychological you’re gonna feel sad etc etc but remember THIS ISNT YOU there are the withdrawals these thoughts aren’t yours is your brain playing tricks to get your fix , I would say don’t go for bupe or subs
Keep remedies medicine on hand and use them trough the day especially at night and you can smoke some weed to pass it more relaxed

Edit:: it also may sound ridiculous but chat gpt gave me a lot of support it was explaining why I felt this way and was making me feel better by outlining the symptoms the timeline of withdrawals I’m still in withdrawals and maybe I’ll be for some weeks but the physical I think they peaked yesterday I was so cold then hot I had the shits , foggy brain , headaches , cold hand feet , body aches , sore muscles , all of them really but the worst was when I was feeling sad and hopeless
The bad thing for me I still have kratom capsules and some tabs of 7ohm but I’m not gonna use them until a month out of withdrawal and then maybe with some friend to end them in one day , remember even the slightest dose while you’re in withdrawals it restarts the process again from the day zero
 
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what u say?u took the leaf 8 years?Not a little time indeed.I got on this only half year....i was sick,but withdrawl was one of the easiest i've got...u can do it with tapper and to some point switch to codeine or something weak.....the problem is not about withdrawl for me,but to easy accsess....if i got free suppply of this i think,that would not made it happens.....how alcoholic can stop to drink,when looking eveywhere see alc...every meeting with people-alcohol.....very difficult.....and better don't quitt kratom and diazepam at the same time....first try to quitt one,stabilize for a few months and later the next....u can do it or u can't...but at least must make a try.....quitting even one of those two is a sucess
 
Hey @intergalacticBG I responded to your message!

It's a pretty common reaction for people in addiction to get fed up, decide they're going to quit there and then only to fail. They have really good intentions. The problem is, I feel this is the same line of thinking that makes a person become addicted in the first place. It's a desire to have everything you want right then. I know some people are able to pull it off. It's my opinion that it's not realistic for most people.

I know it's not nearly as sexy or virtuous to say you're going to make a plan and take 6 months to get off Opioids. This is your best shot at success though. I know a lot of people read this and say "6 months, that's crazy, you don't need that long" and I get that. 6 months seems like a long time. However, when you've been using Opioids for almost a decade, maybe multiple decades and you know 6 months can get you freedom; that amount of time is a pittance.

Like I said, I messaged you big guy. For everyone else reading, my way of going about this would be to have the person transition to a medication that is standardized and can be guaranteed to be available. No extracts from the internet, no darkweb shit, something that can be picked up at the pharmacy easy peasy japanesey.

Yes, Buprenorphine is a relatively potent Opioid. If I'm shooting from the hip, I would hope that a Kratom user could get by, after a proper induction phase, no more than 4mg Buprenorphine sublingually per day. Once a person reaches a stable place I would encourage them to try 2mg-3mg per day as a maintenance dose for a little while, maybe a couple of months. If they then decide they want to reduce, they can. Yes, they will be trading one dependency for another. As stated already though, the Buprenorphine is easily acquired at any pharmacy and is likely covered by insurance and even if not, it's cheap enough for most people to be able to swing it without difficulty.

OP is talking about the chaotic nature of being dependent on something like Kratom. A lot of us know what that anxiety feels like. This guy is wondering if it will be delivered, if it will be the same quality/potency and fuck, he's wondering if it is gonna be made illegal tomorrow, next week or in a month. The anxiety of such a situation feels like you're in a pressure cooker. It was the same for me when I was using Heroin. You never really knew what was coming next even when you thought you did. People get arrested, people get killed, people rip you off. I could digress into why all of these factors support the concept of a regulated, legalized drug market, but that's not what we're talking about right now.

Buprenorphine might not be the absolute best choice, but it is the best choice of what is available to us.
 
I know it's not nearly as sexy or virtuous to say you're going to make a plan and take 6 months to get off Opioids. This is your best shot at success though. I know a lot of people read this and say "6 months, that's crazy, you don't need that long" and I get that. 6 months seems like a long time. However, when you've been using Opioids for almost a decade, maybe multiple decades and you know 6 months can get you freedom; that amount of time is a pittance.
I’m currently helping a decade long heroin user taper. He has to come to me for every dose. It’s going very slowly, now that we’ve gotten down to about 10mg per dose, and I expect it will take at least three months to get him off. And he was using a very low dose, 100mg a day at most. But his brain has been so altered and he’s always been extremely anxious, so he really doesn’t handle the psychological aspects of withdrawal well. I know that if he goes too fast, he’ll go around me and just fall back off the wagon.

For anyone who has someone they can trust to hold their drugs and parcel them out to them, I recommend this method for getting off any drug (or even for preventing one from using more than they would like). Plus, I think it’s really helpful to have someone who knows what you’re going through who can provide not just physical but moral support. We’ll see in a couple months if I’m successful with with my friend. 🤞🏻🙏🏻
 
Ok I'll bite. I am in the same situation for 10 years. I use to take breaks but have not lately due to life being absolutely no fun and full of duties, duties, duties... at the moment.

You are on a small amount of kratom. This is what I would do and am going to do as soon as I have a little more time and money. If you are serious about stopping get some gabapentin. Get maybe 2 mgs TOTAL of bupe. First day off take .5 bupe and 1200 mgs of gabapentin. Second day nothing, suffer a little. Then the next day .5 bupe, 1200 mgs of gabapentin on third day. Then 4th day nothing. Then 5th day the same, .5 and 1200 mgs of gabapentin. Honestly gabapentin COMPLETELY eliminates any of the minor restlessness and anxiety. So bupe may not even be necessary. But just take it a few times and muscle your way through. If you feel maintenance on bupe is needed then follow some of the suggestions in the posts. But know you will be on it a good bit.

Here is the thing, I just recently heard from a friend who quit kratom many times. The last time he decided to go on bupe and is still on. This person begged me to not do the same (and I would not use such a strong drug for a weak one like kratom) as he is struggling and he is one of the users that is complaining of dental issues due to bupe. I figured I would throw that out there since I just heard from him.

I bet if a person would drop half a gram a week they can get off kratom pretty easy. But if a person feels coming off kratom would result in harsher opiate use then yeah, maybe try bupe maintenance. But only if those heavier opiates are looming.

Oddly enough I found balance with kratom. I went from H - methadone- poppy tea - kratom. But I started kratom without being addicted to a stronger opiate at that point. I use using poppy tea a few times a week and living in withdrawal. (BTW 4 days of poppy tea use cause a much worse withdrawal than a few grams of kratom for a year) So yeah I started taking kratom twice a day and balanced out. It worked, my life is in order and now looking to back off myself.

I notice a diazepam taper too. Careful with the mixes. I would do one at a time. A little kratom at least gives fiber. Keeps me regular too although I always was.
 
As the title says, I've been taking kratom daily for about 8 years. I'm highly dependent and addicted to it.

I know this probably sounds dumb as fuck, considering I've read Subs are incredibly strong, but would very low low dose suboxone be something that could help me?

I take small doses throughout the day, usually to the tune of 1.5G 6X a day. But it's a constant part of my day and life and I'm just tired of doing it all the fucking time.

I also am on 3.8MG of Diazepam or so (in the midst of a very long taper over years) and also take 20MG prozac.

Would it be really dumb for me to do this? Kratom is just so fickle and I have so many bags from so many different vendors, I feel tapering it would be difficult. But maybe I haven't tried hard enough.

Appreciate any input and info.
I used kratom for a year but taking 30-40 grams a day and the withdrawals sucked. You took a lower dose but for longer so id recommend tapering. Do you have a family member who can control your intake of it and only give you it when needed? My experience was tapering is really hard when your addicted.

I feel like you probs dont need suboxone at such a low dose. Its only the really high doses (20 grams or so) that give you the full opiate effect with the pinpoint pupils etc. Just spread your doses out then cold turkey it. You take it 6x a day start taking less and spreading the doses out more. 9 grams a day is not so much.
 
Suboxone is a really horrible drug and a bad idea for kratom dependence. I tried this multiple times and always ended up just taking both. Once I figured out I could combine them and feel both it just ended up being an excuse to get higher. With a morning dose of Suboxone I could add kratom on top throughout the day and actually obtain a nod now and again. I don't know why it works but it does.

If you cut your morning dose in half you'll probably find that it holds you better than you expect. There is no way to avoid paying the piper if you want to quit. Just taper or go cold turkey and deal with it. That's been true for every opioid I've gotten myself addicted to over the years. Kratom is very tame by comparison to hydrocodone, oxycodone, oxymorphone, morphine, heroin, suboxone, methadone and all of the others.

The thing about suboxone rotting your teeth is true as well. You should avoid suboxone and methadone if at all possible. You will just blow your tolerance out of the water and end up with a bigger debt to pay when it's time to jump off. Short acting opioids are much more forgiving and less hellish when it comes to withdrawal.
 
As the title says, I've been taking kratom daily for about 8 years. I'm highly dependent and addicted to it.

I know this probably sounds dumb as fuck, considering I've read Subs are incredibly strong, but would very low low dose suboxone be something that could help me?

I take small doses throughout the day, usually to the tune of 1.5G 6X a day. But it's a constant part of my day and life and I'm just tired of doing it all the fucking time.

I also am on 3.8MG of Diazepam or so (in the midst of a very long taper over years) and also take 20MG prozac.

Would it be really dumb for me to do this? Kratom is just so fickle and I have so many bags from so many different vendors, I feel tapering it would be difficult. But maybe I haven't tried hard enough.

Appreciate any input and info.
Suboxone is a much heavier dependency to withdrawl from; one of the worst opioids of all to come off.

That said it is a pharma product. The effects of heavy Kratom use per se is not known, I had severe urinary burning and others have had liver problems with kratom….also the FDA has shown that most of it contains high levels of heavy metals…it is grown in unregulated Asian countries.

If you intend to stay on an opioid forever I would switch to suboxone.

Mixing the two imo isn’t going to work well; kratom always seemed to block the effects of all other opioids somewhat for me and create a dirty feeling mixture
 
As the title says, I've been taking kratom daily for about 8 years. I'm highly dependent and addicted to it.

I know this probably sounds dumb as fuck, considering I've read Subs are incredibly strong, but would very low low dose suboxone be something that could help me?

I take small doses throughout the day, usually to the tune of 1.5G 6X a day. But it's a constant part of my day and life and I'm just tired of doing it all the fucking time.

I also am on 3.8MG of Diazepam or so (in the midst of a very long taper over years) and also take 20MG prozac.

Would it be really dumb for me to do this? Kratom is just so fickle and I have so many bags from so many different vendors, I feel tapering it would be difficult. But maybe I haven't tried hard enough.

Appreciate any input and info.
What you need is to get ahold of the following comfort meds:
Loperamide 30mg the first day then 20mg the 2nd 15mg on the third 10mg 4th and so on
Gabapentin and/or lyrica 900-1200mg of gabapentin a day, 300-450mg mg of lyrica a day basic for the neuropathy(your nerves hurt a lot during withdrawals) also gets rid of RLS sweating, chills, general malaise,.

Clonidine(if you can get it) Helps a lot with all the nasty symptoms

These 4 drugs should be able to drop the level of withdrawal from 10 to a 3-4( super Fucking bearable compared to cold turkey)

I'm currently on Day 5 wds of a 4 month 90mg a day morphine run. The wds I'm experiencing are easy(I'd rate it at a 2-3 on a scale of 10)
Hope this helps you out my friend, these drugs have helped me get clean several times the for the past 13 years. You can do it, cheers.

Edit: btw only take the comfort meds for 10-14 days max, gabapentin/lyrica have nasty withdrawals so you should be tapering the doses as you feel better(around day 7 I always stop with them all the time)
Loperamide only for the first 5 days
And clonidine you should drop it by the first week to 10 days
Listen to your body and drink tons of water.
Good luck 👍
 
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