• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Activity/dosage of two Trypatamines

electrokrisu

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Joined
May 11, 2007
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2
Hi,

i friend has send me 5-Bromo-N,N-dimethyltryptamine and 5-Bromo-6-(trifluoromethyl)tryptamine.

Here i have found an thread about 5-Bromo-N,N-dimethyltryptamine but i can't find infos about the dosage.

About 5-Bromo-6-(trifluoromethyl)tryptamine i can't find anything. Please help.

Thanks.
 
That second one looks pretty crazy, would love to know more.
 
Like shulgin worked : try it at minimal dose (ex. 0,1 mg) to be sure there are no activity at all.

The next day you can double the dose.

Go on increasing the dose until you find the threshold dose.
 
Wow, PLEASE keep us informed on this. Those chems look very interesting!
 
Secondary Metabolites from Three Florida Sponges with Antidepressant Activity.

Kochanowska AJ, Rao KV, Childress S, El-Alfy A, Matsumoto RR, Kelly M, Stewart GS, Sufka KJ, Hamann MT.

Brominated indole alkaloids are a common class of metabolites reported from sponges of the order Verongida. Herein we report the isolation, structure determination, and activity of metabolites from three Florida sponges, namely, Verongula rigida (order Verongida, family Aplysinidae), Smenospongia aurea, and S. cerebriformis (order Dictyoceratida, family Thorectidae). All three species were investigated chemically, revealing similarities in secondary metabolites. Brominated compounds, as well as sesquiterpene quinones and hydroquinones, were identified from both V. rigida and S. aurea despite their apparent taxonomic differences at the ordinal level. Similar metabolites found in these distinct sponge species of two different genera provide evidence for a microbial origin of the metabolites. Isolated compounds were evaluated in the Porsolt forced swim test (FST) and the chick anxiety-depression continuum model. Among the isolated compounds, 5,6-dibromo- N,N-dimethyltryptamine ( 1) exhibited significant antidepressant-like action in the rodent FST model, while 5-bromo- N,N-dimethyltryptamine ( 2) caused significant reduction of locomotor activity indicative of a potential sedative action. The current study provides ample evidence that marine natural products with the diversity of brominated marine alkaloids will provide potential leads for antidepressant and anxiolytic drugs.

PMID: 18217716 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
 
AS NN-unsubstituted...

Primary amino tryptamines, there will be zero activity, even if smoked. If NN- dimethylated, they may act like bufotenine and possibly be orally active. Remember what chemists say about brominated aryl ring compounds " it's like attaching a house (the smaller aryl ring) to a garage (the very large ionic radius of the big bromine atom)". Look at a real size molecule (ORTEP plot) to see how big the bromine atom is compared to the aryl ring of the indole in the tryptamine molecule. I would suspect that the NN-dimethyl--5-bromo- tryptamine would be orally active, but the bromo adds some mystery as to it's being a very "decent" stone, as bufotenine is to "hard" of a hallucinigen for most people. From what i know (not much, duhhh!) 5,6-disubstituted-NN-dimethyltryptamines tend to have altered (attenuated as far as hallucinogenic acivity) activity, but the bromo compound should be active in the 5-10mg range. Always start low and work your way up. That's common knowledge.
 
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I wonder if they found any head twitches. I guess probably not if they noted sedation ...

Head twitches --> hallucinogenic

I'm more interested in the effects of 7-Br-DMT anyway.
 
AMT's

Fastandbulbous and all. In my "tryptamine kit" of intermediates (i am very much an indole chemist), I had 500mg of 5-fluoro-alpha-methyl tryptamine, and it was labelled tOXIC. I did a quick sci-finder search on indoles with the "primary amino, alpha methylethyl side chain. I came up with too many "CAUTION TOXIC" warnings where I didn't find the same warnings for "indole-3- ethyl-2-amino", (indole phenethylamines) or their dialkylated derivatives (DMT, DET, etc). I didn't know what to make of this , but I never did "personal experiments" with the literally hundreds of new and known indoles that i "inherited" or bought, or made. And i certainly never "tasted" any of the new compounds, let alone known ones with a TOXIC label, out of a powerful respect for DMT.
I would expect that alpha methyl TRYP's would be active for the reasons that have been previously knocked around by several of you guys about protection from MAOI's. Along with mono N-methylation, even better.:D
 
2C-T-7 was also shipped with a toxic label in many cases. It could just be a method of prevention.
 
A lot of psychedelics are labelled as "T+" because the LD50 is very very low ! (lower than cyanide for the most)
 
Hazard labelling seems pretty inconsistent a lot of the time. I've seen one iodine bottle that says 'Toxic! Corrosive! etc., Target Organ: Thyroid!' and another that just says harmful!
 
Well if you ever get to see things like the controlled substances from Sigma-Aldrich, a lot of clinical drugs are labelled 'toxic' because it doesn't take much to produce disruptive CNS effects (the amphetamines spring to mind). AMT comes with a toxic label, but it was also used as a clinical drug in the USSR for quite a few years. Basically a toxic label means simply that it doesn't take much to disrupt your normal functioning to a significant degree, it doesn't mean that it's something that you can't ingest under any circumstances (5-fluoro AMT is a much more potent competetive inhibitor of MAO than AMT, although still not in the same potency league as the harmala alkaloids).

That said, I wouldn't disagree with the toxic labelling/classification of 5-methoxy AMT as even the dose that elicits psychedelic activity can make you puke and fill your hoggers (the squirts! =D) simultaneously - a true torture psychedelic IMO =D


I came up with too many "CAUTION TOXIC" warnings where I didn't find the same warnings for "indole-3- ethyl-2-amino", (indole phenethylamines) or their dialkylated derivatives (DMT, DET, etc).

I would class 5-methoxy-N,N-diisoprpyltryptamine (an N,N-dialkylated tryptamine) as toxic if AMT gets that classification because of observed responses. After all, 10mg of 5-MeO DiPT is enough to make a lot of people suffer quite horribly, yet at that dose, AMT is fairly mild. At doses where AMT exerts a full psychedelic spectrum of activity, 5-MeO DiPT would have most people checking into an A&E dept because of the toxic effects (then again, IMO just about all of the 5-methoxydialkyltryptamines are horrible compounds in terms of their effects on my GI tract)


I would expect that alpha methyl TRYP's would be active for the reasons that have been previously knocked around by several of you guys about protection from MAOI's. Along with mono N-methylation, even better.

N-methylation of AMT causes a dramatic drop in activity - it seems that if you want an active tryptamine (or even ergoline) the sidechain nitrogen needs to be either a primary or tertiary amine; as secondary amines are the most basic of the three groups, I'd assume that there's a big ugly positively charged group not far from the aspartate residue which attracts the sidechain nitrogen (it can't be steric hinderance or tertiary amine tryptamines wouldn't be able to interact with it). Strangely, N,N,alpha-trimethyltryptamine seems to be a non-starter in the activity stakes as well - maybe the alpha methyl in combination with N-alkyl groups are in some way hindered, but this bit is all guesswork (I'm open to other viable ideas to explain that)
 
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fastandbulbous said:
N-methylation of AMT causes a dramatic drop in activity - it seems that if you want an active tryptamine (or even ergoline) the sidechain nitrogen needs to be either a primary or tertiary amine; as secondary amines are the most basic of the three groups, I'd assume that there's a big ugly positively charged group not far from the aspartate residue which attracts the sidechain nitrogen (it can't be steric hinderance or tertiary amine tryptamines wouldn't be able to interact with it). Strangely, N,N,alpha-trimethyltryptamine seems to be a non-starter in the activity stakes as well - maybe the alpha methyl in combination with N-alkyl groups are in some way hindered, but this bit is all guesswork (I'm open to other viable ideas to explain that)

Interesting ... that goes a long way toward expaining the inactivity of 4-HO-NMT and 5-MEO-NMT.

Thanks!
 
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