Acid - is it the meaning of life?

[Vurtual]

...I think you could study Hinduism/Buddhism/etc for decades and never experience an LSD high. In fact I know you can because I did it. But you certainly gain knowledge of the language - so if you feel a bit different during meditation that becomes "I was at one with everything".

you'll often say you don't believe anyone telling you that they achieved higher consciousness purely from meditation

I don't know what "higher consciousness" is to be honest. I know for certain that you can never achieve the state of being on LSD from not being on LSD.

i'm exactly one of the people who haven't got the patience for the meditation method and prefer acid, but i know people who are better than me who have

Unfortunately I don't believe that Vurt To me that smacks of "We can all be billionaires if only we worked hard enough".

Incidentally I certainly don't think acid is for everyone - it's only going to have this effect on a tiny minority of people. Most people won't enjoy it or get anything from it. Presumably it's the same with eastern religions - a few people will feel it's been good for them and the rest will be wasting their time.

It's not the same as an lsd high but it seems to be strongly related imo - for (probably circular) circumstantial evidence look at how similar the cosmic waffle that people often spout after acid (even if they haven't read any hindu stuff), and after 'successful' kundalini awakening. Higher consciousness is loaded i guess, but it's how i refer to what being on acid feels like (except on neurotic bad trips), which is my point of reference.

The 'peak' medititation experience as described to me by people i know, love and trust seems pretty similar to the peak ego-loss experience in content (eg sense of self lost, awareness expands to touch everything, feelings of being part of an interconnected whole, and maybe beyond this reaching a place of blissful nothingness) - this experience isn't open to everyone who tries a bit of mindfulness (or acid), but it is there for a few who put the (non)effort in (according to what these people tell me). The exact path, character and intensity of the experience will obviously vary (same as different psychedelics vary), but the end goal is the same i think (the mountain top in poetic terms).

I consider psychedelics sensory deprivation and meditiation to be conceptually the same thing: that is some way of blocking or reducing sensory input (internally or externally), so allowing internal neural circuitry to feedback and increase in gain/intensity (ever seen video feedback? pretty trippy) - the subjective end result of this process is maybe the result of folding the self-loop of consciousness back in on itself again and again until it seems to become one and sense of separation disappears (loss of ego) (or maybe it's just turning down the power on the left brain or something).

For me, the 'magic' entirely lives in our consciousness - acid and meditiation are just different ways to dig into the same consciousness - even without either of these, our conscisousness and imagination is pretty damn amazing, but asking us to appreciate it in our normal state is like asking a fish what water is like. Acid doesn't add anything that isn't already there. As it's already there, i have no problem accepting that other means might be able to unlock the same content (albeit in a different way).

I agree that most will not have these effects of either acid or meditation/yoga, but i know it's much more likely with acid. (I don't expect anyone to believe me from an internet post, i was just making the point that ultimately when talking about subjectivity, something has to be taken on trust if we're not going to be solipsist (like Bill Bailey's 'relaxed empiricism' )

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Is this not the difference. Your LSD euphoria is not maintainable Ismene. It may well be bigger and bolder than anything attained by religious people, but you can't maintain it. This is because you attach yourself to the state...and when you lose the state your detachment can and often is painful, leading to many negative states. Some I've even seen you display on BL.

The religious mystic attains a state through chanting or meditation that is not as wholly euphoric as your LSD state. But they practice non-attachment too so that this state is, for want of a better way of putting it, a more permanent bliss state than yours. This is why you see serene monks walking around Buddhist states, monks who aren't losing their rag on BL every so often (or anywhere else).

Both are higher consciousness states. I am willing to accept the euphoric drug state is more 'impressive' through its potency than the meditative state. I am not prepared to believe the LSD state has more longevity.

I don't see monks constantly slagging off the drug state as you slag off theirs. Maybe this is proof they are more chilled than you. They are playing a longer game.

 

[Vurtual]

Well said. Though i'd say that people can become attached to higher yogic mindstates too. And there are probably a few monks who'll diss the acid (some 'monks' are less succesful in their non-success than others and end up compensating)

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah they do - I was reading a book last night where a Hindul from the 70s said if you study with me you will reach an LSD high permanently without LSD.

Okay so someone says that... but the majority of people are not trying to say that when you practice meditation you can achieve a permanent LSD high. People are simply saying you can achieve bliss and other profound things with meditation, as well as with psychedelics. You seem to frequently go on about this idea that meditation isn't valid because you can't reach the same states as you can with psychedelics... but the prevailing opinion people express here is not that they are supposed to be or are the same, just that both have value.

 

[JackARoe]

I sort of understand what Ismene is trying to convey. I do remember an attitude years ago where you were thought of as a small person for still doing psychedelics instead of "advancing" to mediation and Yoga. So much so the attitude was psychedelics are just a starter and real spiritual people give them up for meditation. The attitude was pretty big at the time and was almost cliquish. However in the last 20 years I see people going back to praising psychedelics and not being afraid to say so for fear of scaring other seekers away.

I can find the link but after Ram Dass had a stroke he was talking to Deepak Chopra. Ram Dass pulled out a bag of weed and I think Deepak had the attitude along the lines of you still do that? Meditation is better. To which Ram Dass held up the bag of weed and said yeah but this is faster. But even now I think Deepak is understanding the importance of psychedelics. He even mentioned he got on his path with LSD.

I have always considered people who turn their backs on psychedelics and denouncing them as "unnecessary" as blasphemy. It seems most of the newer teachers got their start with psychedelics, and I understand not bringing them into a mainstream conversation, but these guys should thank the sacraments for kick starting their journey. And now I do see some of them going back to that basic idea and admitting it. A sign of the times for sure!

So I do sort of remember attitude, it is much less today with psychedelics heading toward mainstream. And I sort of agree with Terence McKenna that the New Age movement was just a path to try and get to the same place as psychedelics without taking them. However I do disagree with Terence that the Eastern spiritual interest was just a shell game on the part of the Sadhus. I do believe there are ways to reach some higher states of consciousness and is very valid. Just not for most who say that.

Psychedelics are a wonderful way to take off the filters and let consciousness do it's thing. But I also agree meditation and some forms of Yoga can work miracles too.

 

[Xorkoth]

Indeed, the attitude you describe is unfortunate and egotistical. But the point stands independently of the attitude of some people.