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Abortion: For and Against

If so many of you people are truly SOOOOOOOO concerned with the impending catastrophe of overpopulation, and that EVEN ONE ADDITIONAL PERSON is such a huge move towards that impending doom . . . then why don't ANY of you take one for the team and kill yourself?

I'm not kidding.

I'm legitimately curious.
 
Pro-choice. I don't believe it's the best thing to abort a fetus unnecessarily (i.e. you shouldn't use abortion as the primary form of contraception) but I believe the little aborted fetuses souls or whatever are just recycled into whatever new babies are born. Because it seems to me that life is a cycle, so the fetuses may "die" yes but I'm sure they're reborn.

L O V E L I F E said:
If so many of you people are truly SOOOOOOOO concerned with the impending catastrophe of overpopulation, and that EVEN ONE ADDITIONAL PERSON is such a huge move towards that impending doom . . . then why don't ANY of you take one for the team and kill yourself?

I'm not kidding.

I'm legitimately curious.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to point out, it would be a lot more effective to try to kill as many people as you can before you die.
 
L O V E L I F E said:
If so many of you people are truly SOOOOOOOO concerned with the impending catastrophe of overpopulation, and that EVEN ONE ADDITIONAL PERSON is such a huge move towards that impending doom . . . then why don't ANY of you take one for the team and kill yourself?

I'm not kidding.

I'm legitimately curious.
Click to expand...

http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/

and you could become an honorary member of this wonderful church!
 
No thanks.

I value my life.

I'm agnostic, but I am overflowing with gratitude.

And I think that A LOT of people ought to value their own lives (let alone the lives of others) a hell of a lot more than they currently do.

-- LL
 
^ I figured you were being facetious with that last post ;)

Thank you, Lysis! I very much enjoyed South Florida, although based on the tests I just took, I think I would've been better off growing up and spending that week studying :(
 
I I were a better mod, I would have searched and linked prior discussion on this issue.
Alas, I am not. :)

Hmmm...do people want this to stay in here or see what happens when I throw it to the CEP crowd?

ebola
 
There are some insightful comments here.
some attempts at trolling, and some humor, including piss-taking.

RAEPED? I don't think so.

I was just thinking...this is a political topic.
 
I apologize in advance for a very US-centric post

I'm in the awkward position of being pro-choice but anti-Roe v. Wade. It is my shameful secret that I often don't let out often. I hate to be in agreement with the right that it was legislation from the bench, but it was legislation from the bench.

The right to privacy isn't asserted much except when justices have had a social and legislative agenda.

Whats more private then a woman having control over her own reproductive processes? The choice to take psychedelics or not. The choice to take psychiatric meds or not. Actually all medical decisions are close to on par with the privacy factor of women' reproductive decisions but no special protections have been carved out to folks who with choosing alternative therapies or wanting an absolute bypass of public health issues.

I honestly think that nine unelected men removing the abortion debate from the democratic process has hurt things in the long run. Its given the impression that an elite unelected body can pull the plug on the democratic process as it sees fit. I'm no expert on jurisprudence by any means but Roe v. Wade was imo pulled out of the justices asses to accommodate a social agenda. By my estimation a worthy social agenda, but legislation from the bench is abhorrent to me even when I agree with the end goal.

Similarly I think court decisions affirming gay marriage in jurisdictions where the majority are opposed are Pyrrhic victories.

The most common argument I've gotten about this is that the Supreme Court didn't have an agenda. They only decide where they have standing. They had standing when the case reached them. The court rejects many cases every year, what cases they here is a matter of their agenda. The assertion of a right to counsel in state cases was made over and over but never made it to Supreme Court hearing until the court had decided it was a topic whose time had come.

I do think that rules and conditions about late term abortions are a very different issue and the pro-choice forces that try to lump everything together as a single, one size fits all issue are guilty of an extra layer of self deception. Perceiving a 7 month pregnancy as different than a first trimester pregnancy is not about oppressing women. It is a recognition that there is indeed a big difference.
 
It depends on the situation. I think partial birth abortions are fucked up. And I think after a certain point, the fetus is closer to a human than an aggregation of cells or a fish.

With that said, an embryo or an early fetus doesn't have much complexity. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a human fetus and one from any other vertebrate at the earlier stages.

I'm pro-choice but I think some people abuse their right. You should not be getting an abortion if you are 6 months pregnant unless their is a good reason! Deformity, health issues to the mother, etc... Because you couldn't be bothered 4 months ago is not a good reason.
 
Regarding abortion: it's the woman's body. She is not a means of production like a factory. If she doesn't want the baby then that is her right. If guys had babies then there would be no debate, just a bunch of "fuck this shit, man - how am I going to chill when I get morning sickness and have to squeeze a baby out of my asshole." It wouldn't even be a "moral" issue.

And babies don't know shit about anything. All of this "life is life" stuff regarding early term abortions is based on Christian principles which mean fuck all imho.
 
I consider myself to be far left. I cannot help being pro-life though. Thats a living, breathing, beautiful unborn child that feels more pain than we ever have when it is stabbed in the back of the head with a pair of scissors. What a heartless and selfish act (unless the child will be born with an exeedingly debilitating disorder or the mother's life is at risk).

What is in question here, in most situations, is whether a child's life is worth trading for personal convenience.

[ma ma]

[da da]
 
^
1) Only a tiny percentage ( 0.1%? ) of abortions were partial birth, and they have been outlawed for a decade in America.

2) I'm not convinced a fetus has any experience of pain at the early stages.
 
It's a tricky (but important and insightful) issue that Enki brings up.
I think that things get quite blurry: what is the distinction between 'legislating from the bench' and 'interpreting law'?
 
We need to get serious about affordable, easily-available (OTC) birth control pills for all women who want them! Especially in the poorer neighborhoods.

With the contraceptive technology we have now, abortion should be a very small issue. Why are so many women getting pregnant when they don't want to? I don't understand..
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Not everyone can take BC pills. They mess up my body and personally, I don't believe in messing with my body's natural hormone balance like that. WHen I was on BC pills I got very very sick. I tried a few different kinds and they all made me feel god awful. I'm really sensitive to most things.

I'm pro choice, and have had an abortion before. That said, if I found out I was pregnant right now I'd probably keep the baby. It would depend on the circumstances. Abortion was right for me in the situation I was in before.

But yeah, expecting all women to be on unnatural, hormone altering drugs is not a good answer.

This whole argument just really sucks. It's so overplayed. Yes, I'm pro-choice, and I think abortion is here to stay thank god. It's been so long since the law (in the US) has been passed I just think it's a tired argument.
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Agreed.
 
mrjackjones said:
I consider myself to be far left. I cannot help being pro-life though. Thats a living, breathing, beautiful unborn child that feels more pain than we ever have when it is stabbed in the back of the head with a pair of scissors. What a heartless and selfish act (unless the child will be born with an exeedingly debilitating disorder or the mother's life is at risk).

What is in question here, in most situations, is whether a child's life is worth trading for personal convenience.

[ma ma]

[da da]
Click to expand...

Uhh Im pretty sure that sort of abortion is illegal, mine certainly wasn't like that. I was only a few weeks along and I just took a pill that makes it miscarry.
 
If abortion is outlawed, all that will happen is that 'backyard abortions' will occur again, endangering the womans life. If a child is unwanted, it will be treated as such. Babies will be left in dumpsters, or kept and treated like shit. Accidents happen, and it should be the womans choice to decide whether or not to embark on such a life-changing event. Raising a child is not easy by any means, and certainly not everybody is suited to it. A fetus is a fetus. It is cells, not a human. I do not believe in abortions past a certain point where it IS a baby. I may cop some flak for this but I have had three abortions, the first at age 15. Go on, tell me I am a terrible person...

But the bottom line is I would be a terrible mother. A drug addict, can barely look after myself. I am far too selfish to be a mother, and if abortion was not an option my children would be fucked up, and my life would be down the drain more than it is already. I am not proud of it. I was careful, I always used BC but it happens. It's not an easy choice, but it was the only option for me.
 
claire22 said:
If abortion is outlawed, all that will happen is that 'backyard abortions' will occur again, endangering the womans life. If a child is unwanted, it will be treated as such. Babies will be left in dumpsters, or kept and treated like shit. Accidents happen, and it should be the womans choice to decide whether or not to embark on such a life-changing event. Raising a child is not easy by any means, and certainly not everybody is suited to it.
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So true.
 
As with anything I feel that prohibition of anything only creates unnecessary discussion on whether it's right or wrong instead of if the topic at hand really needs to be prohibited.

I think the moral arguement should be extradited back to the minds of the speakers and replaced with logical constructions as to why abortion should or should not be legal. If I remember correctly I think some of the arguement is if whether or not a fetus has rights? Is it human? Is it aggression against an unborn, or simply a woman's right to choose whether or not she wants to have a child? I think these all must be defined and in that definition will be the outcome.

Drugs are prohibited right now and most can plainly see how much of a failure the war on drugs is. How is abortion different?

My opinion is that woman should be allowed to choose whether or not they want to have a child.
 
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