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Harm Reduction A word of caution from a dead friend of mine

I'm so sorry to hear about this horrible loss. You have potentially helped many people by sharing your pain. Maybe this is a time for us to consider how much emphasis we put on the issue of tolerance here as bluelighters. Certainly, it's an important thing to consider... however it doesn't always save us.
Some people ( myself included) tend to use how they feel (how high / not high they are) as means of determining whether or not they've had enough of the drug. This combined with the whole "I'm okay because I've got a tolerance" frame of mind is so very dangerous.
If one uses enough of a certain drug and builds up a tolerance- I'm talking mostly of opiates/opioids and benzos here, for this discussion's purpose- the way they feel is not going to be an accurate indicator. People can overdose, period. In the end, it doesn't make any difference if they were high or unable to get the high being sought after. Respiratory depression is respiratory depression, and is completely independent of one's perceived level of intoxication.
Again, I am so so sorry for your loss. Hopefully we will think a little more carefully before doing that extra bit of whatever, thanks to this thread.
 
It's a true shame when a good person with such good things infront of them dies. Rip craig and sorry for your lose GABAking
 
Overdose has become a very mediated word so people often have trouble sizing its meaning. This is why most accidental overdoses happen, because people overdose without knowing about it because they don't know what an overdose actually is and what it feels like.

You know the expression when you talk about something absolutely amaizing, that it takes your breath away? Well, people who do not break their bodies mechanically in car accidents, suicides or through poisonings, can die in 2 main ways:

1) Energy depletion: Such as an old person dying from old age, his body energy is so low that his body is no longer fit to sustain life.
2) Energy spike: A person living an emotion or pleasure so intense that his body is no longer able to sustain life.

Have you ever thought about your most intense orgasmic pleasure you have ever felt? Now, have you wondered what 2x intensity would feel like. What 10x or 100x intensity would feel like, and would the human body be able to take it? If you flow 10,000amps in your television, is the television able to take it and shine like a lighthouse? If you take the drug, the drug feels amaizing, takes your breath away and all the stars are aligned, you're minutes away from dying! Some stars must be left unaligned! You can pick a percentage, like, leave 10 or 20% of the stars unaligned.

If all the stars are aligned, you qualify for death method #2 and are probably already lacking oxygen. When the drug feels absolutely and utterly amaizing...that's red fucking flag! STOP!
 
When all of you were born, you certainly don't remember it because you were too small and so you forgot, but you were struck by a pain 10x more horrible than naloxone. It's what gave you life. The pain, and misery. It's like going down a valley to join the other human beings. What you do with overdose is you climb the valley back up! You say, I don't want the misery, I don't want the pain. I want back to wheverver I came from.

You are like an ant that climbs the walls of a kitchen pot away from the society of ants that are stuck in the hot oil. You wana do that, ok, but, if you climb too high, you risk leaving the pot for good, which, you will ask, why is it so bad? Well, the reason why it's bad is that the body should be a small part in someone life. If you try to take the pleasure of the body and make it your whole life, you will feel unfulfilled because every step you take in fulfilling your body is a step to the grave. You need spirituality as well, a goal and purpose. I don't say don't have fun, don't take drug and don't fulfill body...you do that...but it should be ||||||||||| much of your life.
 
RIP Craig. RIP Gabrielle. Samething happened to my gf, the day before my bday. May our loved ones rest easier now.
 
NightOwl said:
RIP Craig. RIP Gabrielle. Samething happened to my gf, the day before my bday. May our loved ones rest easier now.
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Jesus. This brought a flood of tears to my eyes. This is such a horrible thing and the worst part is that it didn't have to happen. It could have been prevented.

I'm so sorry.
 
And thats why people like u guys rock. Because u guys emphasize (sp) harm reduction! I tell all my friends who use recreationally to check this site before they dose to get the best facts and avoid possible dangers!
 
NightOwl said:
And thats why people like u guys rock. Because u guys emphasize (sp) harm reduction! I tell all my friends who use recreationally to check this site before they dose to get the best facts and avoid possible dangers!
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Harm reduction is a knife with 2 edges. Too few harm reduction and people die. Too much harm reduction and people will turn away from this site, as it would be no different from a copy of the US law or the advice of a legitimate doctor. Harm reduction is entirely useless without being true and scientifically rich. Being told not to take drugs is the perfect harm reduction, but it is idiotic.
 
It's a fine line Ksa, true. At what point does the kind of HR advice BL provides on a vast range of chemicals, some of them really quite obscure as far as general usage goes become advertising and promotion leading to [much] wider use than might otherwise have been the case for example? It's a tricky one, but all you can do is assume that there are gonna be some users out there of even the rarest of chems, and provide whatever objective, factual information you can so as to keep them as safe as is humanly possible with potentially lethal substances. Sometimes seems as though between us we're just repeating the same old mantras at times, ad nauseam, and yet even that repetition is not always enough. Tragic case in point here. :(

And Nightowl? I'm very sorry for your loss also. Thank you for sharing it.
 
The Dope Man said:
fuck methadone. it has ended/ruined 10x more lives than it has saved.
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Bollocks. It's saved many people from the deadly lifestyle of heroin addiction.

All the times Methadone has ended peoples lives was when they knowingly used a high dose, used it illicitly, or used alcohol and benzos with it. Everyone at clinics are warned not to take it with benzos or to drink on it. It only ruins lives when people on it keep increasing the dose, chasing that high, or double and triple dosing.

My heart does indeed go out s I lost a friend years ago who overdosed; He was on a low dose of Methadone but did enough heroin to cop a buzz and then took Klonopin on top of it. I had warned him too. The fucked up part was he used to be a pharmacist so he knew the risk...

People need to realize you don't combine opiates/opiods with benzos or alcohol. You are playing with fire when you do. I must of overdosed 7 times on heroin during my run and 5 of those times were because I drank on top of the heroin. Luckily I had family and friends that managed to wake me up every time when I passed out with my lips blue and vomit in my mouth.

Furthermore, Methadone isn't a recreational drug. It's a fucking tool for recovering from opiate addiction and it's a powerful one at that. When used wrong it kills; That's why the dispense it from clinics.
 
Two close to me have met thier maker under similar actions. It's never to late to say no I'm gonna set this one out I'm gonna go on to the house and you guys have fun I've had enough. No BL or anyone else would look down on someone for doing what we all know we should and just say nope not this time guys maybe next time. May all our loved ones rest in peace..
 
why is it that methadone barely works for people trying to honestly get back to a clean life where they can focus on things that matter rather that how or who the next dose will be scored. it sounds like everyone knows methadone is harder to get off than herois itself because of the halflife. why cant some scientist or chemist design a superior version to methadone that half half the halflife and can produce effects that arent quite recreational, but at least functional.

i dont know maybe i dont know as much in this area as mostly everyone on this site. but id rather ween myself from slowing down my heroin/oxy use with discipline /supplements/temporary benzos and a few other helpful things than jump on the methadone train. id actually like to see the statistics of people who get on methadone and can never get off. granted-alot of the methadone users are junkies who have no plans on changing lifestyle, but im sure there are a percentage who want to just get back to regular living and feel trapped on methadone. im just glad ive never had to get so into opiates that i needed atualy help getting away from them. and beleive me, in 2003 living on my own in downtown detroit, heroin was my drug of interest, not choice. and maybe i can thank the lord i never got sucked into that. because i worked a fulltime job of trying to find a snortable supply of H. at best u would get .10's for the going rate but they would be short and half brown sugar.

so i may sound like i am clueluess to piate WD, but my onw personal advice, is never get on methadone if you dont have to.
 
Taking drugs and go to sleep is a shitty idea. In my case, sleep can potentiate opioids by a factor of 10. I once took 50mg of codeine and went to bed 2 hours later at 1:00am. I woke up at 2:20 taking a huge breath of air and like, my whole body was sugary, like I was floating and was just piss high. There is no doubt in my mind that if I had taken 150mg instead I would have been gone, never woke up in that particular circumstance. Usually, 9 times out of 10, nothing happens I sleep fine but every once in a while, something happens, I don't know what...sleep is fucked up man you can control it. Don't take shit.
 
I want to thank all of you who extended your love. I haven't been on BL in a few days so I can't address each one of you, but I want to thank you again and also extend my condolences to those of you who lost loved ones in a similar manner.
 
Wow...this hit me hard...I don't use opioids recreationally because I have allot of Chronic pain now...my whole body is just wrecked so I can't afford a label that would prevent me from getting my pain meds. One day my doctor prescribed me 75mcg Fentanyl patches, she thought I was severely addicted to Oxycodone so she "assumed" my tolerance was in that area....well I put a patch on at 6PM and felt mild effects at 9PM went to bed...next morning I woke up and my whole body was numb...3 hours later I couldn't stay awake, my breathing was slow (I found my self gasping for more air "manually") and I was just plain scared. So if you read this and you do use opioids whether for pain or fun I don't care and I do remember having fun with Oxy when I wasn't in pain a long time ago but just be careful...drugs don't care who you are and what you know.
 
tricomb said:
^Damn man, what a careless mistake by your doctor. How did she assume how severely you were dependent on oxycodone?
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Idk but she didn't use (my favorite!) Opioid equivalency calculator....she wrote my a script for 3 Percocet 5/325's a day...I could sleep so I started taking one before bed too and then my tolerance was already up because I was on narcs for like a year already. So she upped it to 4 and of course thats not a big deal so she thought I was taking like a handful at once and feeling fine...didnt really bother to be honest and you know just ASK how much I needed. Doctors really know less about opioids and drugs then the people on here...I don't know why but I catch doctors fumbling on words when I ask about a medication...

Anyways after I took that patch off I had sorta this "reality check" because like allot of people do take Methadone or throw a patch (or 3, know some kids who OD'd around here with 3 patches a couple of years ago) you don't feel the full might of the drug for a couple of hours. With Oxy you peak at like an hour 2 hours but with long acting stuff it can be scary. I'm just glad I could take the patch off, never done that much fricken Adderall to stay awake and not feel jittery haha. I told my Room mate to make sure my chest was moving the next morning to be safe...he always woke up at 6:30AM and I always slept in late just wanted to make sure I actually woke up...Finally I called my doctor and said I wasn't doing Fentanyl like this...I said I didn't care if she thought I was some addict or whatever..so she switched me to Hydromorphone...she screwed the dosage up on that too...AND she was using an opioid equivalency chart....she assumed a cross tolerance of like 100% or something lol. Took 3 weeks to get the right dosage for me....of course if I had said something and she had listened the dose would have been fine from the get-go but you suggest anything to your doctors you get labeled a drug seeker/addict....and they say this is supposed to be a relationship when in reality the doctors and the DEA are a bunch of suppressors....I'm not even 21 man and I've had to deal with this bullcrap. I just do my own research now because Ive got a rare spine disease AND old injury and apparently no one goes through medical school anymore 8( wanted to be a doctor when I grew up but there is no way I want to end up being some overrated profession and mistreat everyone. I get regular harassment from the nursing staff too, accidentaly cancelled appointments, blunt unprofessional statements on me being on too much hydromorphone for my age, etc. Don't got a choice since it took me a year to get in the room with the doc...she's good but she don't know nothing about what REAL pain feels like.

The faster you learn that drugs are just borrowed emotions the faster you will want off them.
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Truer words are rarely spoken....I realized this in high school...allot of friends didn't and it changed them, they thought since daddy was a lawyer or better yet a doctor they would have an unlimited supply of whatever they used. Every once and a while something really really bad (like a death or some of the FUBAR shit I've seen in my life) would happen and yeah I would grab some oxycodone and take a good amount when the xanax wasn't cutting it...but I always realized that when the 3-4 hours were up and the buzz was gone that I couldn't just keep re-dosing...I'd blow through my money, wouldn't have enough to manage my pain when I REALLY needed it and most importantly I could ruin my future before it even began. Yeah the drugs feel AMAZING sometimes, done Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, Hydromorphone, IV morphine, and Oxymorphone when I was in the hospital once...it feels like everything is right and man Oxy adds a whole new element to euphoria but I don't want to be that poor bastard on like 4 OC80's a day just to get out of bed or like some end stage cancer patient on 500mg of morphine a day. Even on 16mg of hydromorphone or sometimes more I just feel excessively sedated and sometimes I've asked why the hell did God put me in this much pain...

Anyways be safe guys...I don't post too much but I lurk..gonna see if I can break one of these damn Exalgo's into 1/4ths so I can try and get some sleep...damn drug company's lol
 
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