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A serious thread about online poker

The guy had pocket kings on a queen high board. Obviously he is going to bet. 7 times out of 8 you do not have a set of tens there. Just because someone is all in doesn't mean a person with a made hand is supposed to check down and give free cards to a 3rd player in the hand.

He didn't "hand you his stack," he lost with an overpair to a set. It's not like he was bluffing into a dry side pot, he was betting a very good made hand. the "For what" is that he was tryign to win the pot, just like any standard hand. Why does it matter if there is no side pot, he has the all in guy crushed for the main pot.

It is possibly that you, like many, have misunderstood the "rule" about a multi-way hand with someone all in. The rule is you don't BLUFF into a dry side pot, because there is obviously nothing to gain -- The all in guy is not folding, and the 3rd player only puts chips in when he has a hand, so it is a clear lose / lose situation.

The rule does NOT say you should avoid betting for value, which is what he did.

On another note -- I do think it was a mistake to not reraise pre flop with the TT. TT is not a hand you want to play Multi-way.

And the flat call by the KK is an egregious error. He only had 1000 chips total, so obviously he should shove pre flop.
 
Had a nice low-level result a few days ago, got 4th out of 350 (though only in a $1 rebuy). Played some nice poker I thought - did my usual low-M/bubble tactic of shoving any half-decent hand, and as usual people folded and let me double up just through taking blinds. Made some good reads as to when I could bluff postflop. Made a bad error to go out (KQ in SB, 4-handed. Raised but didn't shove. Villain (who had over half the total chips) called me with J4s and hit). Still, for the level of the game, I played pretty well.
 
Fjones said:
The rule does NOT say you should avoid betting for value, which is what he did.

On another note -- I do think it was a mistake to not reraise pre flop with the TT. TT is not a hand you want to play Multi-way.

And the flat call by the KK is an egregious error. He only had 1000 chips total, so obviously he should shove pre flop.
Click to expand...

I see your point. I hadn't considered the other side of the equation. The pot was 3/4 villain's stack and he had an over pair to a draw heavy board. Giving me a free card is not smart, and the shorty probably pushed w/ Ax or garbage.

I was thinking more along the lines of by checking it down we both gain tourney equity if the shorty is knocked out -- but I see how that's not the best option for villain as he has the near nuts here, and KK on this board is something like an 80% favorite against a random hand according to pokerstove.

And the TT flat was weird. I felt it was too strong to fold, but at the same time I felt shoving 20BBs w/ TT was a little spewy. At the time I thought we were going to check it down since he just called and didn't rr so I didn't mind putting in 4BBs.

It's funny to because I have Collin Moshman's book on SnGs and its all covered in there under "implicit collusion"... Guess I need to go back and take more studious notes.
 
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How sick is this shit?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.40 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP (t1410)
CO (t855)
Button (t2090)
Hero (SB) (t1385)
BB (t5620)
UTG (t2140)

Hero's M: 18.47

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7
diamond.gif
, 9
spade.gif

UTG bets t150, MP calls t150, 1 fold, Button calls t150, 1 fold, BB raises to t250, UTG calls t100, MP calls t100, Button calls t100

Flop: (t1025) 10
spade.gif
, 5
heart.gif
, 4
heart.gif
(4 players)
BB bets t50, UTG raises to t250, MP calls t250, Button raises to t1840 (All-In), 2 folds, MP calls t910 (All-In)

Turn: (t3645) A
diamond.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t3645) 5
club.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t3645

Results:
Button had 5
diamond.gif
, 5
spade.gif
(four of a kind, fives).
MP had A
spade.gif
, A
heart.gif
(full house, Aces over fives).
Outcome: Button won t3645
 
I am grinding the $24 45 mans sngs now.

I just played 250 in a week (!) and made $1991.00

not bad for 33 hours of work.
 
Oh how I love beating ignorant, arrogant players. Down to five at the table with the blinds going up, I'm 4th so I'm pushing any decent hand (M of about 5 or 6) and this guy starts taunting me for going all in. He's a terrible, passive player but the chip leader. Other guy tells him he sucks. I propose a side bet that the other guy will win the tourney and we spend the rest of the game with him telling us how great he is. 20 minutes or so later I've gone from having 1000 chips to winning.

Back playing good poker again (for my level, obviously).
 
Whats the worst downswing you SnG grinders have experienced? I know you guys play MTT SnGs, but for 9 man SnGs do yall have any experience or knowledge of sick downswings?

I'm in a slump right now and realize poker is a long term game, but it's really frustrating. I try to be patient and play decent hands, but bad players keep luckboxing into the money. VPIP stats that would make you puke.
 
Bedhead said:
Whats the worst downswing you SnG grinders have experienced? I know you guys play MTT SnGs, but for 9 man SnGs do yall have any experience or knowledge of sick downswings?

I'm in a slump right now and realize poker is a long term game, but it's really frustrating. I try to be patient and play decent hands, but bad players keep luckboxing into the money. VPIP stats that would make you puke.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure I have run flat or negative for over 100 games before at 9 person STTs.

Do you have your Stats from poker tracker or hold em manager?

What are your VPIP / PFR and post flop aggression? What is your CBet%? how often are you raise/folding ?
 
Fjones said:
I am pretty sure I have run flat or negative for over 100 games before at 9 person STTs.

Do you have your Stats from poker tracker or hold em manager?

What are your VPIP / PFR and post flop aggression? What is your CBet%? how often are you raise/folding ?
Click to expand...

These stats aren't just from the $3 9 mans, but everything including the $1 SnGs. I couldn't figure out how to filter stats for just the $3 ones in HEM.

9 players: 8/4
6 players: 13/10
4 players: 21/18
(All over 3k hands each) The numbers increase all the way to HU where I'm running 54/39. I Cbet roughly 60% of the time. Post flop aggression is ~3, fluctuating slightly according to the # of players left in the SnG.

9 handed I'm only limping PPs 22-99 and raising TT+ AK and AQ. That's why I guess I appear so nitty. Early on in a limped pot I fold my draws unless I'm getting good odds and generally throw away top pair w/ a shitty kicker if there's 4 ppl in the pot and action.

I feel like I have a pretty good idea of when to shove over high blind limpers, abuse short stacks etc,, but it's like every time I'm short stacked I push A7 into AK or QK into KK. And in other spots I get unlucky in crucial situations where if villain hadn't sucked out I'd be in really good shape to make the money and get 1st or second.
I'm down -10 BIs which is perhaps just variance. Need to put more volume in.
 
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13/10 is good. 21/18 is good. post flop aggression is good.

But 8 / 4 ? WHat's up with that?

Limping half the hands you play? That is not good.

ALso, some explanation of theo ther things you sald would be useful --

"generally throw away top pair w/ a shitty kicker if there's 4 ppl in the pot and action."

Generally speaking, you shouldn't be playing acrds with shitty kickers. WHat kinds of hands are you referring to?

"Early on in a limped pot I fold my draws unless I'm getting good odds"

What kind of draws? SOmetimes it is good to get aggressing with draws. It doesn't have to be a "call or fold" situation, often raise is the right play. If you have two overs and a flush draw, or a straight and flush draw, or one over and a draw, or middle pair and a flush draw, I suually raise.

But you really shouldn't be playing draws that often. The pots you should be playing should be YOUR raised pots, which means you should be Cbetting. Thus, you shouldn't really be in a position to call draws to often.

CBetting 60% is rather low. I would try to increase that. Most winning players are around 80%.
 
Fjones said:
Generally speaking, you shouldn't be playing acrds with shitty kickers. WHat kinds of hands are you referring to?
Click to expand...

Mostly hands in the BB in the first couple of levels where I have K4, Q7, J3, etc. Hands of that nature where I have top pair on the flop, but my hand and is most likely not good by the river. The same goes for when I flop flush draws in the first two levels. Unless I'm getting odds, I throw it away. If I flop top pair + a FD I'll play it. I was referring to marginal hands early where I'm in the BB and everyone limps so I check.

I was just referring to the 10/20 and 15/30 levels. I play draws more aggressively later on. But try not to spew chips early on if that makes sense. If I don't flop big early on I tend to let it go as there is plenty of time left and plenty of chips to work with. At the $3 games, players tend to be really spewy early on so I try not to get involved unless I have a good hand.

Jesus christ. 3:1 for the rest of my life and I would still lose. Its so sick.
 
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yes, when you are in the big blind, you should not be getting involved. Just because you are forced to see a flop, doesn't mean you should lose chips with a weak hand. But tighten up that 8/4.

Are you calling other people's raises often? If so, that is a mistake.
 
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 29, 02:25:43 ET 2009
Table 183021080 1 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Seat 1: $1580.00 USD )
Seat 5: $4750.00 USD )
Seat 6: $2080.00 USD )
Seat 8: $4205.00 USD )
Seat 9: NikolasM7 ( $885.00 USD )
NikolasM7 posts small blind [$50.00 USD].
posts big blind [$100.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NikolasM7 [ 8s 8d ]
folds
folds
raises [$300.00 USD]
raises [$835.00 USD]
folds
calls [$585.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Qs, 3d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7h ]

Standard push? Villian is 21/4. He's priced in to call and it's most likely a flip w/ face cards but I'm short stacked and need to double up. Is gambling here OK? Or should I wait for a better spot? Guys to my left loose and blinds are about to go up to t75/150

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.40 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t8420)
Button (t1545)
Hero (SB) (t1360)
BB (t2175)

Hero's M: 3.40

Preflop: Hero is SB with A
club.gif
, 8
heart.gif

UTG calls t200, 1 fold, Hero bets t1335 (All-In), 1 fold, UTG calls t1135

Flop: (t2970) K
club.gif
, 7
heart.gif
, 10
spade.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2970) 9
heart.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2970) 4
spade.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t2970

Limper is 47/15. The pot represents 50% of my stack. A8 is marginally +EV against a 40% range and I have some fold equity, amirite? With his stack and VPIP he's probably limping all kinds of garbage here. Another standard shove?

SnGWiz says this is a fold. What do you guys think? Really Marginal?
 
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ok, the first hand -- were you playing $50 $100? I am confused. Why does it say real money? I am goign to assume it was a SNG.

This is not a good push. You have no fold equity, and you are going against a 21/4. if he only raises 4% of the time, that means he is raising TT+ and AQ+. 88 does not match up well against that range. Now, maybe he was just getting bad cards and thus was not raising a lot. But, he did have a VPiP of 21, so that shoots down that theory.

As for the second hand -- SNGWIZ says that is a fold !???? That seems asinine. I shove there 100% of the tiem without hesitation.

If the guy is playing 47/15, he is indeed limping a whole lot of crap and you have tons of fold equity. does SNG WIZ factor in the 47/15?
 
Managed to snag first fucking finally. After about 20 or so SnGs... Things may be starting to turn around.
 
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Honestly, how fucking rigged is this shit. God damn tilt. Does it mean I'm playing good if every single time I bust it's a bad beat?
81/19 for the rest of my life jesus christ, wtf.
 
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I'm in a regional freeroll on Stars tomorrow.

$100K total prize money. 6000 get paid. So far, there's only 9700 entered! And only another three qualifiers. So given that some people won't show, probably everyone who plays will finish ITM. (Admittedly only for $5).

First is $10K. Any tips for playing such a big tourney? (It's standard 10 minute blinds, 10/20 to start with 1500 chips). Standard will be low - the qualifiers were 750 player turbo freerolls with the first 150 qualifying, so some real donks got in.)
 
play very tight early on. NO reason to get involvd in marginal spots. As slow as it moves,y you will find people to donate chips in a few spots.

AJ utg full table, fold. pocket pairs, maybe limp and see a cheap flop for set value. Don't get invovled unless you hit. Bet strong made hands for value (Top pair top kicker and better).

Once antes come in, steal blinds more from late position. Try to pick up chips withotu showdowns, byt raising late position limpers and raisers.

My apologies for bad typing. I took Klonopin and I am getting sleepy.

Good luck.
 
Thanks, that's pretty much how I play, though sometimes I try playing hyper-aggressive early on and look to either double up early, or go out. But this one, I'll play as you say (I'm picturing a lot of folding for the first two hours...).
 
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