A question for Christians- is anti-christianity offensive?

[ebola?]

I think the belief that a supernatural being created you and ultimately determines your fate lies at the heart of most religions (when they're divorced of their mystical insights).

As they say, FTFY.

 

[ebola?]

Moderator's note: cultivating an environment hostile a priori to a particular set of views is not only unnecessarily malicious but also contradictory to the whole point of fruitful debate.

 

[MrM]

As they say, FTFY.

I agree. Religion has certain insightes

When you look at your suggestions, many of them are at the heart of the beginnings of religions.

Many had to be practical to begin with-- affecting people's health and mental clarity, in matters such as fasting, hygiene, farming, rest days, etc. Of course, you pile contextual recommendation on top of contextual recommendation and you get a whole unwieldy conflicting database of rules. But is that religion per se?

An example was given to me by a jewish friend of mine regarding the kosher rules for meats and food that the jewish eat. Most of these rules make a lot of sense if you are a nomadic people traveling through the desert as the non mixing of certain items helps prevent serious problems with food poisoning.

Now, because this is part of a religion rather than a science (or some kind of rational pre-science cooking discipline), even though most jews don't spend their time treking the desert (and the majority own fridges) these rules are still in effect and are now bound up as part of their religion.

Ultimately this isn't much of a big deal as i don't care if practicing jews are forced to be extra fussy about what they eat for no good reason, but the same 'logic' applies to many other aspects of religion, including social.

You can certainly look at religions as a guide to help the smooth running of society. Unfortunately many of these rules, like kosher foodstuffs, where set down when the religion was started and are now somewhat dated, causing serious problems for the rest of us. Especially those of us that are homosexual or different from the religious norm in some other way. People pick and chose their morality from the bible - not all christians are homophobes - but there is enough stuff in there to support such a view that it tends to codify it into society - there will always be homophobes but they needn't feel their opinions backed up by god and religion.

 

[qwe]

Why don't they deserve the same condemnation as people who say the earth is flat? Both groups of people have the same amount of evidence to back up their claims. I am with Dawkins on this one, doling out respect to primitive religous beliefs should be a thing of the past.

i don't condemn people who believe the earth is flat. they are pretty cool actually. there's a flat earth forum and they are used to arguing with "nonbelievers"

they are pretty thick headed though..heh

 

[MrM]

i don't condemn people who believe the earth is flat. they are pretty cool actually. there's a flat earth forum and they are used to arguing with "nonbelievers"

If that's the same forum i've seen, i signed up, stuck about for a week then left when i realised at least 2/3rds of all the 'believers' where just massive trolls that loved arguing for arguments sake.

To be fair, some of the threads where quite entertaining, i just doubt very much that the more coherent posters for the flat earth theory actually believed what they were claiming. For one thing it's too easy to prove the earth is round using tools that anyone can gain access to and a little inteligence.

I assumed it was pretty much all an in joke at the expense of both creationists and the people that waste their time arguing with them.

 

[qwe]

^ yeah, we are talking about the same forum. everything you said is true. it was very entertaining though, and it's interesting that pretty much anything you say will be debunked thoughtfully. but you're right, once you start talking about ways to prove the earth's "sphericalness" with common tools that anyone can do, and they start getting into conspiracy theories, it just gets stupid. that's why i said they are thick headed

but yeah, im quite sure they don't actually believe in a flat earth. what is more interesting is how they show that anything can be rationally rationalized

 

[MrM]

I came up with one they couldn't debunk. Infact i didn't get a response at all (presumably because not being able to debunk me wasn't very entertaining).

They rellied on people arguing against them knowing fewer details than themselves. It was more like arguing theology with a theologian than arguing rational science with a scientist.

I disagree that it shows you can rationalise anything - just that you can make most things appear rational to someone who doesn't look below the surface detail.

 

[opy]

OP: question to you, is anti you offensive? I think it is rhetorical .

 

[spaceyourbass]

First of all, have any links to back up those statistics?

It is never good to subject people to mental castration to placate them. Just because religion is the opiate of the masses doesen't mean that opiates are good. There are better, long term solutions to people's happiness and well being besides archaic folklore from the Hebrews.

I learned the facts a/b children who regularly going to church doing better in school, being less liely to become addicted to drugs, and being happier later on in life than children who don't attend church, straight from the APA (American Psychological Association). The stats were in a book for African Psychology, but I can't recall the specific name b/c I sold the book back when I was done with it. I could look up the old syllabus and find the title if you must have it.

Religion does not castrate people! It releases people! Releases their stress and helps them forget about all the bullshit in their lives. Some call that being on "the opiate of the masses," and some, like me, call it a necessary psychological tool.

 

[qwe]

^ religion can also suppress natural instincts/urges, repress natural desires which causes a bucketload of psychological issues, force people in line to what society deems normal, prevent people from asking questions and making progress in philosophy and science, cause persecution of those who believe in "heretical things" which also prevents progress in thinking/science, ETC ETC ETC ETC

you can't only look at one side of the fence. religion can release people and help people grow. it can also do the opposite. through-out history, i'm pretty sure it has done the negative things more...

 

[SececaRD]

I guess it depends on what your deffinition of offensive is. Either way, weather you beleive, or not beleive God is still gonna get all the glory. God made some vessels of Honor, and some for dis-honor.

Just remember God wins either way, he doesnt need our help he is soverign.

So to me do I find it offensive, not really but Im not gonna support such actions. It just saddens me more than anything. It saddens me that one is willing to send himself to hell over his own selfish desires and hes not willing to surrender to the God who made him.

This is my opinion, thanks!

 

[swilow]

^Fair enough, I'll not sway you from that one. I don't know about going to hell and all that; sounds like a really good way to "inspire" people towards christianty Whats all this glory that god will get? Why should he get anything?

OP: question to you, is anti you offensive? I think it is rhetorical .

Hmm, no not really; but if someone was vehemently spreading word that I was an evil monster and couldn't back up their claims, then it wouldn't be so much offensive as annoying. In that sense, I find christianity offensive; as its a very ANTI religion, and I find it irritating (at best) that so much of our law and culture clings to it.

My reason for asking the question is because I am writing music at the moment which is probably considered "blasphemous" simply because I like the feeling of darkness god-hate can inspire iin me. That said, the music and themes (its dark ambient/industrial/black metal stuff) are going to be 'offensive/impartial' to lots of good things. This isn't a desire to create more negativity in the world, but a desire to create a musical atmosphere akin to negativity. Just for kicks really....If I believed in god, I doubt it would have any real potency.

 

[New]

I guess it depends on what your deffinition of offensive is. Either way, weather you beleive, or not beleive God is still gonna get all the glory. God made some vessels of Honor, and some for dis-honor.

Just remember God wins either way, he doesnt need our help he is soverign.

So to me do I find it offensive, not really but Im not gonna support such actions. It just saddens me more than anything. It saddens me that one is willing to send himself to hell over his own selfish desires and hes not willing to surrender to the God who made him.

This is my opinion, thanks!

I see your point of view but will have to disagree with that. God made ALL vessels capable of receiving the light already within them, it's just that some choose to listen to the voice that divides humanity and the one that has humanity working akin to multiple organs in the same body.

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

This thread was really meant to be a chilled discussion involving christians.

Simple response; cheers

You are kidding are you not?
Any subject about religion, and you expected it to be civil?

Besides that being as it is, you get some uncivilized narcicists trying to crush others down and any view that does not follow his and though those with the opposite views want to stay and have a civil discussion, they are forced to let go and go and seat and just read/observe, if the topic is of interest.

Whether you believe something or not, is irrelevant, because it exists-make your point without attack and let it go! Not him!
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QUOTE: Dtergent>>>Enlitx, I'm not sure if "who or what created you" is even the central theme in most religions. Also the very idea of "something" determining your fate is also a very "flat" way to look at religion. It is very simplistic and ignores the philosophy and "science" of religion, if you may.

^^"God" speaks through you mouth Dtergent! Thank you!

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[LivingInTheMoment]

This relates to what I was saying. One can learn from any text...whether it be archaic folklore or a medical journal. The central message of most religions is basically a long winded form of "don't be an asshole or else other people will treat you like shit". I would think one would respect at least that much from what religious text has to say, even if the religions themselves have not quite caught up yet.

Religion and mental castration are mutually exclusive. Just because someone retards their life over to doctrine because of their religion doesn't mean, say, I do the same thing. My religious practice involves knowledge, understanding, and wisdom to be highly valued. As a result, I learn as much as possible. Were I not raised Jewish, I would most likely be into New Age spiritualism. Or an Atheist.

Oh, I like how you express yourself, cos you do it as I like it! Thank you too!

 

[qwe]

I guess it depends on what your deffinition of offensive is. Either way, weather you beleive, or not beleive God is still gonna get all the glory. God made some vessels of Honor, and some for dis-honor.

Just remember God wins either way, he doesnt need our help he is soverign.

So to me do I find it offensive, not really but Im not gonna support such actions. It just saddens me more than anything. It saddens me that one is willing to send himself to hell over his own selfish desires and hes not willing to surrender to the God who made him.

This is my opinion, thanks!

i find your misinterpretation and misunderstanding of how nonchristians think as just as sad

seriously, if you don't believe in god, that doesn't mean your selfish desires and unwillingness to surrender lead you there. there are plenty of athiests who are as selfless and as humble as any christian. can you accept that?

 

[swilow]

Hail Satan!

 

[SececaRD]

I see your point of view but will have to disagree with that. God made ALL vessels capable of receiving the light already within them, it's just that some choose to listen to the voice that divides humanity and the one that has humanity working akin to multiple organs in the same body.

Really find me that in scripture.

 

[SececaRD]

Well the Holy bible says that there is no such thing as atheists. All were born with the knowledge that there is a God.

qwe

Im not giving my opinion, Im simply stating what the bible says.

Romans 1

18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

 

[Jabberwocky]

at least thats what the holy "scriptures" bible says.

Seriously all due respect to your beliefs, but quoting scripture to people who don't believe scripture to be inspired does nothing to further discussion. It shows that one has a basis for your belief but that basis has not any authority over nonbelivers by their beliefs. Its a chasm that neither repetition or increased volume is going to compensate for. Just the way that it is. Your battle is about prayer and principalities anyway, isn't it? Internet posts are internet posts, if faith isn't arrived at by intellect than no amount of intellectual arguments will bring anyone to faith or away from faith. I'm not Christian but I know a large portion of Christians I know would agree faith isn't an intellectual process and arguments from both sides are dust in the wind or ashes or chaff. Nor do I think intimidation or recitation of the consequences of no faith brings anyone to faith, but I don't have much experience with evangelizing so perhaps I don't know what promotes or inhibits conversion.