a. muscaria "entheogenic" use...is there such a thing?

[metaforrest]

After reading up on A. Muscaria for several months I purchased some from an online ethnobotanical source. I have done a shit ton of reading and soaking up all the info I could get about these, but one thing still sort of puzzles me...

Famously linked to the drug 'Soma' in the Rig Veda,said to have been used as an entheogen in ancient cultures etc etc...but all its active alkaloids really do is bind to GABAa receptors? As intriguing as this mushroom and its history are to me I do not quite understand what kind of 'entheogenic' effects muscimol or ibotenic acid could even create.

Anyone have experience or insight? Please and thank you.

 

[pasha]

Welcome to bluelight, I'm moving your post to Psychedelic Drugs since this is a hallucinogen.

bdd--->pd

 

[Solipsis]

Some GABAergic drugs including Amanita's and the Z-drugs can cause peculiar states of consciousness sometimes suggested to be related to lucid dreams. Furthermore Amanita mushrooms can cause dissociative effects, altogether a potential recipe for quite unusual experiences. Sometimes mostly intoxicating but at other times spiritual and or entheogenic.

You find this surprising or hard to believe because muscimol binds to GABA receptors? If so I guess you are oversimplifying GABA pharmacology. In general GABA might be an inhibitive neurotransmitter and non-selective agonists for GABA receptors are mostly expected to be sedating. But there are ways of GABAergic action where some brain functions may be suppressed, allowing other ones an opportunity to present themselves.

If suppression of visionary effects is inhibited, then by that logic visions are actively promoted. I think it is through this sort of action that it is possible that muscimol and the Z-drugs act. But even GABAergics that are typically just sedatives can have side effects of that nature under certain circumstances.

 

[metaforrest]

Very good info, I appreciate the answer and the welcome. =)

Solipsis, any personal experience?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

One of Amanita muscaria's active constituants binds (directly, not at benzo sites) to GABA-a receptors. That doesn't mean it only has the effects that GABA would have - many well-known psychedelics bind to serotonin receptors and they don't just have the effects that serotonin would have. GABA-a binding is complex and there are various receptor subtypes and effects it can cause. And it likely does more than just act as a GABA-a agonist, I don't agree with this trend there seems to be of researchers assuming plants or fungi have only one active alkaloid and only studying it (not that muscinol is even that well studied).

Furthermore, "entheogen" is just a term for a psychoactive substance used in a spiritual context. That doesn't necessarily have to be a psychedelic. However, Amanita muscaria can have some psychedelic effects, but they tend to be usually described more along the lines of the milder hallucinatory effects of drugs like Ambien (zolpidem, which binds to GABA-a at benzo sites), cannabis, or the hypnagogic dream state when you are first falling asleep. I haven't actually tried it myself though.

We do have a search function at the upper right hand corner, if you do a search for Amanita muscaria you can view the threads about it. A few of the threads about it are listed under Soma, but that will also bring up some threads about the unrelated drug Soma which is a brand name for carisoprodol, a muscle relaxant.

Edit: ninja'd by Solipsis. He explained things well.

 

[electric wizard]

i did amanita dryed ones it just made me really fkin high no lucid dreaming or hallucinations

 

[Solipsis]

Very good info, I appreciate the answer and the welcome. =)

Solipsis, any personal experience?

Well I have tried Amanita extract, zolpidem and zopiclone... but never more than mild effects of the sort this thread is aiming at. I am not sure if I am really interested in finding out, tbh.

If I had the money to procure the rest of analysis materials needed, I would try decarboxylating the synthetic ibotenic acid I - supposedly (sold as gaboxadol) - have. Soon I plan on doing a melting point test to get an indication of its identity, hopefully that works - the heat might actually do the decarboxylation so I should keep an eye out for muscimol's melting point as well...