Opioids A life supply of opioids, how would it affect you?

[Keif' Richards]

Not all drugs are created equal. Many are blindsided by facts like: Alcohol is one of the most harmful and devastating substances one can take. Opioids are essentially harmless to the body. The primary "danger" is associated with overdose. If overdose is taken out of the equation, Opioids don't cause any damage, per se, to the body. You could use Heroin your entire life is what the science has shown. It's worth mentioning that chronic constipation is a very real potential danger for long-term users, however this is another issue that is easily handled using stool softeners or what have you.

The thing is, living as an addict and living as a person with say, a Heroin prescription are not remotely related. The lifestyle of an addict is often inherently unhealthy due to malnutrition, injection complications and of course never knowing the true potency of your drugs. Living as an addict entails your entire life bein dedicated to obtaining Opioids or being high.

When you take the chaos of addiction and illicit drugs out of the equation, it seems that Opioids are not inherently harmful to one's health. Folks overseas who have been prescribed Heroin describe no desire to use more or to lose control. I believe the best drug policy is not a "free for all" make it all legal. I believe users should have access to their drugs of choice, but the prescribing physician needs to be there to support the person.

So, we know that Morphine and similar drugs are biologically harmless. I can speak less to Methadone, as I get a lot of conjecture from people. The issue with Methadone is that it is typically not seen as a satisfactory substitute for Morphine. It simply does not work as well as Morphine/Heroin.

TL/DR Opioids are essentially harmless to the body in a biological sense. Folks can live to 100 using Morphine daily. This only applies if you have a legitimate, pure source of the Opioids. If you are buying it off the street, your mental and physical health will suffer greatly in the pursuit of Opioids. It's really very sad. We have seen programs in the UK, Switzerland and Portugal work. It doesn't look like anything like this will happen in the near future in the United States. If the United States could just implement these programs, we wouldn't have friends and family dying from Fentanyl overdose.

Fun Fact: many who are enrolled in Heroin-prescription programs often end up giving the drug up voluntarily. Most of us have never actually had an experience in which we had complete freedom in choosing our drugs. We are convinced that an unlimited supply of drugs would make us happy. It's like money. People think money will make them happy, although we know that it does not.

If you're in a prescription program, great. If you're buying from street dealers, it will always be chaos.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

It depends, there are functional addicts and there are addict addicts, an unlimited supply will increase the odds of a functional addict going off the rails tho

 

[SpiralusSancti]

It depends, there are functional addicts and there are addict addicts, an unlimited supply will increase the odds of a functional addict going off the rails tho

Smartest answer in this thread. Basically most of the people looking to get really high (and really that's wast majority of opiate users) would get into problems.

 

[hwbush336]

I remember when I got on at the Pain clinic and prescribed oxy 10s morphine and Xanax first visit, I went to the bathroom pissed looked in the mirror after snorting one , saying I'm about to have my cake and eat it to , this could get really bad , and just respectfully excepting it and snorted another , and for 3 full years me and my girlfriend had ALL the pills we could ever want, one doctor prescribed the opioids the other Valium and Adderall. It was like hitting the lottery, we never ran out , even after selling half the script we still did AS MANY as we wanted. You kind of felt what it would be like to have them forever never running out , never having to spend money on them it was AMAZING, because I never even wanted to do them until night time just knowing I had them was good enough was a great feeling hahaha BUTTT THATS ALL before physical addiction, I was prescribed but never took wat I was actually prescribed because we only did it to get the money and get high once and awhile but then u start taking more and more and more until the day they get cut off and you never think it's coming until it does

 

[Neuroprotection]

Smartest answer in this thread. Basically most of the people looking to get really high (and really that's wast majority of opiate users) would get into problems.

I guess that makes sense. i’ve heard that using clean opioids indefinitely is probably much safer on the brain than drugs like cannabinoids, sedative-hypnotics or stimulants like amphetamines. I do think that’s true to some extent, but I guess the dose still makes the poison. also, I just want to clarify, you mention that opioids can cause a numbing affect. is this somehow similar to the emotional numbing effect of SSRI antidepressants? if so, I think that’s quite concerning and has the potential for serious psychological harm in some people.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I guess that makes sense. i’ve heard that using clean opioids indefinitely is probably much safer on the brain than drugs like cannabinoids, sedative-hypnotics or stimulants like amphetamines. I do think that’s true to some extent, but I guess the dose still makes the poison. also, I just want to clarify, you mention that opioids can cause a numbing affect. is this somehow similar to the emotional numbing effect of SSRI antidepressants? if so, I think that’s quite concerning and has the potential for serious psychological harm in some people.

O my answer to Piss_and_messed was more of a joke but he's right that numbing yourself all the time ain't good. Idk in what sense he used the word but it stays true in most every way. Only time when numbing yourself all the time makes sense when pain, be it physical or mental is terrible.
Numbing is word that used in connection to drug effects can be used really broadly. I just smoked a joint and it's numbing some negative things but by a completely different way than opiate would, with completely different side-effects.
People tend to dismiss the fact that drug related crimes in part DO come from drug use itself. Everyone focus on fact that crimes connected with immediate use is hugely overblown and that's right. Hell even alcohol isn't actually creating violent people, more like bringing it out. I bet a lot of people saw how alcohol over time turns someone into different person. Almost as or more than getting really drunk used to do.
Opiate users ain't immune to drug induced personality changes. While not as pronounced as with stimulants effects still can be profound or more often profoundly bad. It's easy to dismiss someone is stealing to get gear cuz WDs are hell, well that ain't all. Same as it's easy to dismiss someone killed someone (or self) on meth or pcp cuz he's was violent anyway. If so, same goes for alcoholics so it isn't actually cause of family violence etc, just correlated. And if not, and experiencing true psychosis or knowing how they can be is usually enough to understand that intense drug experience can drive someone insane to the point of killing someone. I'm not saying drugs create killers but sure don't help with those "predisposed", some drugs for sure. There are still no definite answers to that and similar questions.

 

[Foreigner]

this might sound like a really stupid question, but my research has given me differing, ambiguous and off topic answers. my question is, does opioid dependence produce serious changes that may cause people to drop out of work or withdraw from responsibility, assuming they had cheap/free of charge on demand access to opioids? let’s suppose I discovered a free life supply of morphine and became dependent on it with no intention to give up. do you think I would be able to live life as normal including holding down a job.
Actually, just remembered a very interesting conversation I had with Hexenstahl Who suggested this may well be the case. I just want to check with others on here to see if anyone has additional knowledge, including their own experiences.
Thanks in advance

I already basically have a life supply, but I never use it. The reason is that I'm not in pain.

If I was still in pain like I was just a few years ago, I'd easily become a hardcore addict for life. Would probably OD eventually as well.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I already basically have a life supply, but I never use it. The reason is that I'm not in pain.

If I was still in pain like I was just a few years ago, I'd easily become a hardcore addict for life. Would probably OD eventually as well.

I’m very glad to hear you’re happy and don’t need any type of opioid.

 

[Foreigner]

I’m very glad to hear you’re happy and don’t need any type of opioid.

I'm never happy, lol. But at least I'm not in pain anymore.

 

[cdin]

i find they have a lot of negative effects over time that are not talked about much. Hyperalgesia, complete shut off of emotional centers. Never feeling well/energetic without a dose. Hormone issues.
and most importantly: these fuckers destroy your guts over time. Look at Mathew Perry. Limbaugh, dudes that had unlimited access and did not die from OD. what ends up getting them are their guts.
I am currently involved in coming off opioids entirely for that reason, and the emotional ones. I just can't deal w the opioid blanket anymore. down to 7mg approx OC once daily and feeling good about it.

 

[dabman]

i had an unlimited supply of free valium. I know not the same as opioids. but i had a three year run, it was ok at first, but the tolerance kicks in. and i kept doubling up to feel the same. these where 10 mg. at the end i was taking 10 to 15 at a time several times a day. i really like opiates allot more than valium. i don't think i would want the same with opiates. been in and out of pain management since 2004 to 2020. i finally got into weed and now that's all i do. i don't miss the pills and my gut feels so much better now.

 

[cdin]

i had an unlimited supply of free valium. I know not the same as opioids. but i had a three year run, it was ok at first, but the tolerance kicks in. and i kept doubling up to feel the same. these where 10 mg. at the end i was taking 10 to 15 at a time several times a day. i really like opiates allot more than valium. i don't think i would want the same with opiates. been in and out of pain management since 2004 to 2020. i finally got into weed and now that's all i do. i don't miss the pills and my gut feels so much better now.

im so ready for those good gutfeels. turns out - slowing down your entire digestive tract for decades on end is NOT a good health decision. Whoda known??
yeah, and what i also find is that (as i am a 3rd degree burn survivor that literally had unlimited opes for a period of time) - is that it changed my relationship w them completely. it was when i truly began to dislike them. an unlimited supply means the whole mystique of the "lifestyle" and the "score" etc is out the fuckin window. now you're just a sad person who is high af/barely able to interact w loved ones that can't take a shit. it becomes much more like a job. but yeah, i can definitely credit a period of unlimited access with truly being the point i began to think about how much I dislike them in a more objective way, divorced from my identity and (at the time) love of dangerous lifestyles.

 

[dabman]

i have to agree once the challenge of scoring some pills is gone. the whole mood changes the fun is gone. i didn't have to go out and talk to people to get what i needed. lost a few friends because i very rarely went out. it was very lonely the last year or so. nothing a few more pills can't take care of. what kicked it all off was a bad motorcycle accident. pain from plates and screws in my neck and a multitude of other injuries.

 

[cdin]

i have to agree once the challenge of scoring some pills is gone. the whole mood changes the fun is gone. i didn't have to go out and talk to people to get what i needed. lost a few friends because i very rarely went out. it was very lonely the last year or so. nothing a few more pills can't take care of. what kicked it all off was a bad motorcycle accident. pain from plates and screws in my neck and a multitude of other injuries.

was a fire/3rd degree burns for me. The isolation is very real. and the anhedonia that sets in once you are super used to the opioids, lacking testosterone and not even getting a dopamine/endorphin hit out of em that's noticeable. THEn the long term gut issues.
I truly wonder what would happen to the opioid abuse rates if simple diacetyl were offered as a public service. sure would solve the border/cartel/all that shit issue. too bad 3 letters got a budget they trying to justify

 

[Neuroprotection]

i find they have a lot of negative effects over time that are not talked about much. Hyperalgesia, complete shut off of emotional centers. Never feeling well/energetic without a dose. Hormone issues.
and most importantly: these fuckers destroy your guts over time. Look at Mathew Perry. Limbaugh, dudes that had unlimited access and did not die from OD. what ends up getting them are their guts.
I am currently involved in coming off opioids entirely for that reason, and the emotional ones. I just can't deal w the opioid blanket anymore. down to 7mg approx OC once daily and feeling good about it.

Sorry, I don’t want to pester you but you’ve got me really interested. when you say opioid blanket, are you talking about an unpleasant numbing affect on your emotions whilst on opioids? I wonder if it’s a similar thing to what happens with SSRI antidepressants. i’ve read a lot about how they can cause severe emotional numbness, with people describing themselves as feeling distant and disconnected from objects, emotions and sensations.

 

[cdin]

Sorry, I don’t want to pester you but you’ve got me really interested. when you say opioid blanket, are you talking about an unpleasant numbing affect on your emotions whilst on opioids? I wonder if it’s a similar thing to what happens with SSRI antidepressants. i’ve read a lot about how they can cause severe emotional numbness, with people describing themselves as feeling distant and disconnected from objects, emotions and sensations.

100% I do. And general anhedonia. Like a complete absence of emotion negative or positive.

Now - there’s some emotional / ptsd horror in the acute phase where anhedonia is actually preferable and may save someone from suicide or something else. But as soon as you move through that acute phase/need it becomes a
Fuckin nightmare

 

[Neuroprotection]

100% I do. And general anhedonia. Like a complete absence of emotion negative or positive.

Now - there’s some emotional / ptsd horror in the acute phase where anhedonia is actually preferable and may save someone from suicide or something else. But as soon as you move through that acute phase/need it becomes a
Fuckin nightmare

Thank you so much for sharing that. One of my areas of interest is understanding the biological mechanisms behind anhedonia and how it can be reversed. have you ever heard of the transcription factor Delta FOSB. it is a protein that builds up and sensitises the rewards system making a person much more sensitive to all rewards. at the same time, it is believed to be involved in tolerance to the analgesic and depressant effects of opioids. strangely, for such a protein involved in addiction, Chronic pain and chronic stress, it is also a powerful stress resilience factor which fights against depression/despair and reward defficiency. animals overexpressing it in certain areas of the brain show resistance to depression caused by a whole host of severe long-term stresses, despite showing higher anxiety and hyperactivity, which may indicate enhanced emotional sensitivity. The reason I mention this is because it has shown me A valuable lesson. The neurobiology of emotions are extremely complex and not always connected in the way we think. there is a theory that emotional flattening in depression may be an evolutionary trait to reduce unnecessary activity in order to conserve energy or decrease risky behaviour in hard times. whether true or not, depressive behaviour and anhedonia Will have led to the death or at least ruin the lives of many people, both in our early primitive stages and in our current era of advanced technology. I know this is a complicated topic, but psychiatry should look into these things and stop trying to numb emotions to treat psychiatric diseases.
I wish you all the best on your journey to quit opioids, Plus your experience has convinced me that A lifetime of opioid use is a bad idea. in fact, I previously suffered from about six months of anhedonia due to chronic stress and I’m not yet an opioid user.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

O my answer to Piss_and_messed was more of a joke but he's right that numbing yourself all the time ain't good. Idk in what sense he used the word but it stays true in most every way. Only time when numbing yourself all the time makes sense when pain, be it physical or mental is terrible.

there is just something very valuable in sober mind state, emotions are very delicate, sharp and lively, so to say.

One could say that occasional benzo in midst of anxiety makes you actually less numb because stress is not proper emotion but very comprehensive state and it easily takes all the space in head. I have few times felt dissociation lifting off on benzos and suddenly everything feels beautiful. Also applies to opioids, turning off pain can make mindset much richer. I have also repeatedly experienced heightened empathy and forgiveness towards other people on opioids, which I consider to be sign of decreased numbing. So it is definitely not simple matter.

 

[Neuroprotection]

there is just something very valuable in sober mind state, emotions are very delicate, sharp and lively, so to say.

One could say that occasional benzo in midst of anxiety makes you actually less numb because stress is not proper emotion but very comprehensive state and it easily takes all the space in head. I have few times felt dissociation lifting off on benzos and suddenly everything feels beautiful. Also applies to opioids, turning off pain can make mindset much richer. I have also repeatedly experienced heightened empathy and forgiveness towards other people on opioids, which I consider to be sign of decreased numbing. So it is definitely not simple matter.

Thanks for that. Of course, this matter is very complex and different opioids May have have wildly different effects. I suspect any unwanted numbing from opioids probably occurs through a serotoninergic mechanism. I believe opioids can promote serotonin release and supplementation with tryptophan can reverse some aspects of opioid tolerance, analgesia if I remember correctly. emotional numbing might also be more prevalent with synthetic opioids, which have greater interactions with the serotonin system as well as with NMDA receptors.
Interesting point you made about numbing stress. this is why I’m so interested in things like dopamine and Delta FOSB. for example, unlike serotonin, dopamine doesn’t generally blunt emotion, but can enhance positive ones, to the point where negative emotions are sidelined. meanwhile, Delta FOSB which accumulates in response to high dopamine activity, can act to very selectively numb negative emotions like despair, anhedonia/dysphoria and aversive behaviour including risk perception and aversion to risk. meanwhile, it leaves anxiety, Fear and pain intact. these effects sound subtle, but can have a massive impact on the psychology and behaviour of an organism.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

there is just something very valuable in sober mind state, emotions are very delicate, sharp and lively, so to say.

One could say that occasional benzo in midst of anxiety makes you actually less numb because stress is not proper emotion but very comprehensive state and it easily takes all the space in head. I have few times felt dissociation lifting off on benzos and suddenly everything feels beautiful. Also applies to opioids, turning off pain can make mindset much richer. I have also repeatedly experienced heightened empathy and forgiveness towards other people on opioids, which I consider to be sign of decreased numbing. So it is definitely not simple matter.

I agree 100%. And my personal experience has a lot of parallels with what you described.

What I can add, and I think it applies to lot of us, is that with time we forget how does true sobriety really feels and swinging from WDs and high becomes most of the life. And it's easy to consider time during light WDs as sobriety but it isn't similar at all to healthy sobriety. Cuz of that many people stop even trying to get clean as they never reach that healthy sobriety. I've seen people after months of being pretty sober and not feeling great decide that sober life simply isn't for them while they should have waited for some more months or years. But no one likes to wait.

emotional numbing might also be more prevalent with synthetic opioids, which have greater interactions with the serotonin system as well as with NMDA receptors.

There's a lot of synth opiods that don't mess a lot if it all with those. Stuff like tramadol and methadone are more of a exception than a rule for synth opiods.