Opioids A life supply of opioids, how would it affect you?

[Neuroprotection]

I agree 100%. And my personal experience has a lot of parallels with what you described.

What I can add, and I think it applies to lot of us, is that with time we forget how does true sobriety really feels and swinging from WDs and high becomes most of the life. And it's easy to consider time during light WDs as sobriety but it isn't similar at all to healthy sobriety. Cuz of that many people stop even trying to get clean as they never reach that healthy sobriety. I've seen people after months of being pretty sober and not feeling great decide that sober life simply isn't for them while they should have waited for some more months or years. But no one likes to wait.

There's a lot of synth opiods that don't mess a lot if it all with those. Stuff like tramadol and methadone are more of a exception than a rule for synth opiods.

Do you have any thoughts on Delta FOSB. I made a thread on it in the neuroscience and pharmacology discussion forum. however, I think the most relevant posts are the ones I made since June of this year if you do want to check it out. The reason I’m so fascinated by this protein is because of its ability to tremendously amplify reward,/completely reverse anhedonia induce stress resilience and suppress aversive behaviours, especially risk aversion. nobody seems to have any answers on how this could affect human behaviour, Though animal studies seem to be really promising.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Here’s an article that might explain some of the possible stimulant effects of opioids, especially morphine in some people.

Morphine Inhibits Sleep-Promoting Neurons in the Ventrolateral Preoptic Area Via Mu Receptors and Induces Wakefulness in Rats

Morphine is the most efficacious and widely prescribed treatment for pain. However, it decreases the total amount of deep sleep and rapid eye movement sleep in humans. Acute morphine administration at low doses causes wakefulness in animal models. To ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Zeketgw]

this might sound like a really stupid question, but my research has given me differing, ambiguous and off topic answers. my question is, does opioid dependence produce serious changes that may cause people to drop out of work or withdraw from responsibility, assuming they had cheap/free of charge on demand access to opioids? let’s suppose I discovered a free life supply of morphine and became dependent on it with no intention to give up. do you think I would be able to live life as normal including holding down a job.
Actually, just remembered a very interesting conversation I had with Hexenstahl Who suggested this may well be the case. I just want to check with others on here to see if anyone has additional knowledge, including their own experiences.
Thanks in advance

You're right people completely missed the point of your question including me. I don't see why pure Pharmaceutical opioids would be any different in terms of causing you to tune in turn on and drop out to steal an LSD phrase from the 60s. I I can tell you from a lot of research that opioids actually screw with the part of your brain that handles decision making and logic. So my guess would be no there's no way to take opioids forever without getting addicted to them and as you said forgetting about everything else losing your job losing your wife your house your kids possibly your life.
Opioids both rock and suck - quite the accomplishment...

this might sound like a really stupid question, but my research has given me differing, ambiguous and off topic answers. my question is, does opioid dependence produce serious changes that may cause people to drop out of work or withdraw from responsibility, assuming they had cheap/free of charge on demand access to opioids? let’s suppose I discovered a free life supply of morphine and became dependent on it with no intention to give up. do you think I would be able to live life as normal including holding down a job.
Actually, just remembered a very interesting conversation I had with Hexenstahl Who suggested this may well be the case. I just want to check with others on here to see if anyone has additional knowledge, including their own experiences.
Thanks in advance

 

[HoldBack]

I’ve been addicted for about 15 years. Don’t intend to stop. Gainfully employed almost that entire time. I make enough money at work that I essentially can use as much dope as I want. I barely feel any effects at this point.

Don’t think it would prevent you from being successful at work but, in my experience, you cannot be dependent and have a normal social life or family.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I’ve been addicted for about 15 years. Don’t intend to stop. Gainfully employed almost that entire time. I make enough money at work that I essentially can use as much dope as I want. I barely feel any effects at this point.

Don’t think it would prevent you from being successful at work but, in my experience, you cannot be dependent and have a normal social life or family.

I’m glad to hear your addiction hasn’t harmed your employment and general life. i’d be interested to know why you feel opioids affect your social life. is it because you spend a lot of time chasing opioids or is it that opioids make you somewhat antisocial or introverted?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Also may I ask, where does your interest in drugs come from? I read that you said your religion forbids any intoxicant and you don’t plan on using anything other than nicotine and caffeine, yet you’re discussing highly potent drugs a lot. No hate, but is this just all a theoretical interest of yours, or do you plan on eventually trying some of these things?

Firstly, in regards to my question on the life supply of opioids not affecting the person, yes, there were those comments a few days ago, but there was also arguments from drug legalisation activists. I do realise they sometimes misconstrue information just as much as the drug prohibitionists do. thank you very much for clarifying all this for me, you’ve given me a very clear perspective and convinced me that opioid addiction is definitely not a good way to go.

In regards to my religious beliefs, yes, intoxicants which cloud judgement And induce a state in which an and induce a state in which a person acts irrationally/loses control are strictly prohibited. most of my discussions are theoretical, but I am attempting to explore exactly which classes of drugs are intoxicants and which may not be. nicotine is by far my favourite drug currently and I’m hoping to use it as a replacement for caffeine when I finally quit caffeine. there is one drug class that I’m particularly interested in and that is the Psychostimulants, e.g. amphetamines or methylphenidate.

 

[Neuroprotection]

thank you everyone for your responses so far. when I started this thread, I had the assumption that opioids were not in themselves harmful and if one had unlimited access, addiction would be almost completely safe and nonproblematic. from your responses, I’ve learnt that this might be the case for some people, but for many others, opioid dependence causes physical and emotional difficulties even whilst on the drugs. The side-effects I found most scary were apathy/anhedonia/emotional numbing.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Also may I ask, where does your interest in drugs come from? I read that you said your religion forbids any intoxicant and you don’t plan on using anything other than nicotine and caffeine, yet you’re discussing highly potent drugs a lot. No hate, but is this just all a theoretical interest of yours, or do you plan on eventually trying some of these things?

Oh yes, sorry I didn’t answer your question directly on where my obsession with substances/drugs came from. basically, since childhood i’ve always been obsessed with The possibility of elevating mood with chemical substances. you might find this hard to believe, but as a very young child(Between seven and nine years old), I would stay up at night, thinking about my fathers nicotine patches and wishing I could try one. strangely, I was able to guess exactly what nicotine would feel like and when I finally tried it a few years later, it felt exactly how I suspected it would but a little more pleasant which was a nice surprise. i’ve never really liked The idea of intoxicants or psychedelics, I generally prefer substances that increase motivation and elevate mood. not sure if you seen some of my previous post on nicotine where I describe how it works wonders for me, but if not, I can describe it in another reply to you. do you think it’s normal that I get such wonderful responses to nicotine especially with chronic use?

 

[Neuroprotection]

Also, I was wondering if you know what’s the dealio with many Middle Eastern (and Muslims) chewing Khat in, Yemen is it? Khat from what I understand is a cathinone and has effects like MDMA. I just watched a documentary about people sitting around in circles chewing it all day and they are certainly getting high as hell, so I’m wondering if that means they’re just shirking the rules of Islam or rationalizing their use in some way.

I am ethnically from Yemeny Origin though I was born in the UK. Khat is widespread in my community, but it’s effects as a drug are quite dubious. some people get a bit of a buzz out of it, but the most common effects are initially slightly elevated mood followed bye a state of slight overthinking and insomnia for some people. it’s the social environment and the highly charged political conversations that really add to the high. i’ve tried khat myself and really got nothing out of it.
In regards to what islamic scholars say, opinions are mixed. They can’t really wholeheartedly with proof say it is an intoxicant, because nobody does weird things or blacks out on it. however, some prohibited based on possible psychological harms whilst others permit it, but say that it must not be used in a manner that leads to one neglecting their family or harming themselves.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Oh okay got it, then the hype around it I guess surely isn’t what is to be believed in the documentary. If you tried it and said it didn’t feel euphoric or anything.

I gotta say, it’s a little weird to me that you would dictate what you take based on what Islamic scholars say or not say, but to each their own?

I mean do you really believe Muhammad saw an Angel he said was Angel Gabriel on the top of a mountain or could he not have been tripping on something?

That’s right. That’s not to say that some people don’t get a big hit out of khat, just that it is usually very mild. in regards to religious beliefs, I guess that’s a difficult one to explain. there’s no doubt conditioning /upbringing is one of the main factors in me believing in God and having Islam as my religion. however, I’ve done my own reflection and research because I went through a period of time in my teenage years, where I hated all religions and God. however, despite this, I could never shake off the idea that the universe created itself and though I wanted that to be the case I just couldn’t believe it. during that time, I tried to be a nice person and enjoy life, but I just kept falling deeper and deeper into sadness. when I finally accepted God in my life and submitted to the idea that I couldn’t do anything about it, I felt amazing for the first time in years. I felt in a peace and realised it was okay to feel sad or stressed. sorry, if I’ve not explained it that well, it is very hard to explain why one has religious beliefs.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Oh okay got it, then the hype around it I guess surely isn’t what is to be believed in the documentary. If you tried it and said it didn’t feel euphoric or anything.

I gotta say, it’s a little weird to me that you would dictate what you take based on what Islamic scholars say or not say, but to each their own?

I mean do you really believe Muhammad saw an Angel he said was Angel Gabriel on the top of a mountain or could he not have been tripping on something?

Sorry for any grammatical errors or typing mistakes, I’m blind and using dictation on my phone. Also, just wanted to let you know quite a few of your posts have disappeared from the thread, are you deleting them? if not, A moderator might have accidentally removed them.

 

[MatthiasG]

Rot

I’ve heard a tiny number of anecdotes where people claim that addiction to opioids is actually therapeutic for them and that they are in a much better state once dependent on opioids than they were before starting. I think there’s definitely something to this, because I’ve had the same experience with nicotine where I benefit psychologically from its regular use. for all their talk of smart drugs and brain hacking, apparently many in Silicon Valley have turned back to good old opioids and amphetamine like stimulants to help them through the day. i’m not encouraging this as a lifestyle, but I do wonder if addictive drugs might off and do a better job than Nootropics.

Rotation, tapering. For stims and Opi’s. Re Opi’s I know people who have had a successful career, college grads, and been on 500mg MME for decades. Uninterrupted medical supply.

 

[MatthiasG]

Not all drugs are created equal. Many are blindsided by facts like: Alcohol is one of the most harmful and devastating substances one can take. Opioids are essentially harmless to the body. The primary "danger" is associated with overdose. If overdose is taken out of the equation, Opioids don't cause any damage, per se, to the body. You could use Heroin your entire life is what the science has shown. It's worth mentioning that chronic constipation is a very real potential danger for long-term users, however this is another issue that is easily handled using stool softeners or what have you.

The thing is, living as an addict and living as a person with say, a Heroin prescription are not remotely related. The lifestyle of an addict is often inherently unhealthy due to malnutrition, injection complications and of course never knowing the true potency of your drugs. Living as an addict entails your entire life bein dedicated to obtaining Opioids or being high.

When you take the chaos of addiction and illicit drugs out of the equation, it seems that Opioids are not inherently harmful to one's health. Folks overseas who have been prescribed Heroin describe no desire to use more or to lose control. I believe the best drug policy is not a "free for all" make it all legal. I believe users should have access to their drugs of choice, but the prescribing physician needs to be there to support the person.

So, we know that Morphine and similar drugs are biologically harmless. I can speak less to Methadone, as I get a lot of conjecture from people. The issue with Methadone is that it is typically not seen as a satisfactory substitute for Morphine. It simply does not work as well as Morphine/Heroin.

TL/DR Opioids are essentially harmless to the body in a biological sense. Folks can live to 100 using Morphine daily. This only applies if you have a legitimate, pure source of the Opioids. If you are buying it off the street, your mental and physical health will suffer greatly in the pursuit of Opioids. It's really very sad. We have seen programs in the UK, Switzerland and Portugal work. It doesn't look like anything like this will happen in the near future in the United States. If the United States could just implement these programs, we wouldn't have friends and family dying from Fentanyl overdose.

Fun Fact: many who are enrolled in Heroin-prescription programs often end up giving the drug up voluntarily. Most of us have never actually had an experience in which we had complete freedom in choosing our drugs. We are convinced that an unlimited supply of drugs would make us happy. It's like money. People think money will make them happy, although we know that it does not.

If you're in a prescription program, great. If you're buying from street dealers, it will always be chaos.

So true. NSAIDS, acetominohen in some Pharma opioids are far worse than opioids themselves. As I mentioned in other posts, I know 3 diff successful people, college grads, been on 450-550mg morph equiv for 2-3 decades. Even the most open minded Re opioids would never believe these guys have been on that dose for that timeframe. Allowing them to exercise and have life pain would have robbed otherwise. Not all peope mesh so well with longterm high dose opioids treatment for chronic pain, but those who do are far more common then te world believes.

 

[MatthiasG]

Here’s an article that might explain some of the possible stimulant effects of opioids, especially morphine in some people.

Morphine Inhibits Sleep-Promoting Neurons in the Ventrolateral Preoptic Area Via Mu Receptors and Induces Wakefulness in Rats

Morphine is the most efficacious and widely prescribed treatment for pain. However, it decreases the total amount of deep sleep and rapid eye movement sleep in humans. Acute morphine administration at low doses causes wakefulness in animal models. To ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

They def effect me that way. Chatty in the way stims do for most people.

 

[phall]

I was on a high amount of scripted opiates for a long time. There is definitly something to the fact it can boost mental performance . I used chess ratings as my proof of this. Over time opiates have an effect on body and mind.

the low test has been mentioned . T his is progressive and depends on type of opiuate. I e longer acting ones cause more of a decrease in test levels. Even if I combatted that with gels or the like there's now proof that they change the way the body functions, even the major organs ultimately leading to a shorter life. Again longer acting ones more so .

the mental changes I found were my noticeable for a long time but I started seeing them in other ppl. Mainly the ability to deal with situations is greatly decreased. Ppl become more volatile sometimes but I personally had more difficulty with frustrating situations being up emotions that were over the top . It was something I talked to many ppl about and maybe others would confirm this. I had a friend who started crying cause his electric bill company threatened him. The guy was a doorman a few years earlie r. These changes a 're subtle but increasing over time

my gp says that a lot of autopsy nowadays are starting to sure the damage caused by long time use that hasn't been seen before .even down t changes in shape of heart and lungs a nd liver.

I guess that will all become a lot more apparent with the timeline of oxy etc.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I was on a high amount of scripted opiates for a long time. There is definitly something to the fact it can boost mental performance . I used chess ratings as my proof of this. Over time opiates have an effect on body and mind.

the low test has been mentioned . T his is progressive and depends on type of opiuate. I e longer acting ones cause more of a decrease in test levels. Even if I combatted that with gels or the like there's now proof that they change the way the body functions, even the major organs ultimately leading to a shorter life. Again longer acting ones more so .

the mental changes I found were my noticeable for a long time but I started seeing them in other ppl. Mainly the ability to deal with situations is greatly decreased. Ppl become more volatile sometimes but I personally had more difficulty with frustrating situations being up emotions that were over the top . It was something I talked to many ppl about and maybe others would confirm this. I had a friend who started crying cause his electric bill company threatened him. The guy was a doorman a few years earlie r. These changes a 're subtle but increasing over time

my gp says that a lot of autopsy nowadays are starting to sure the damage caused by long time use that hasn't been seen before .even down t changes in shape of heart and lungs a nd liver.

I guess that will all become a lot more apparent with the timeline of oxy etc.

Wow, what an interesting perspective you provided here? I never knew opioids were that damaging. From the multi organ damage you describe, I suspect these effects are dependent on excessive activation of the opioid receptor, in particular the MU receptor. from your answer, as well as those of a few others on here, it seems to be that opioids are a very poor choice for getting through life. they appear to reduce stress resilience in the long term, contrary to what I thought when starting this thread. your answer and those of quite a few others have convinced me to stay far away from opioids especially as a long-term solution to stress.
I’ve been researching the neurology of stress resilience and the powerful role of Delta FOSB in mediating it. One thing I’ve learnt from my research is that stress resilience isn’t really about suppressing/Blocking out negative emotions. rather, it is the inability of such negative emotions to induce depressive like behaviour and anhedonia within an organism.
The problem with opioids, benzodiazepines and to some extent most other psychiatric drugs, is that they simply blunt all emotions or at least all the unpleasant ones. unfortunately, this isn’t a good solution because it does nothing to solve our life problems or teach us about how to cope with these emotions when they do arise in future. of course, there are exceptions, especially in the short term when temporary relief of extreme distress could help someone get back on their feet.
Nevertheless, in general, I feel that using opioids to anaesthetise emotion is very detrimental to human well-being.
I created a thread regarding cognitive and well-being, enhancement. I can share the link with you if you want to know more about stress resilience.

 

[Nas47]

to be hooked on painkillers all ur life?it does not sounds me good.....u(me) would got bored too soon,possible with high tolerance and diminished levels of content in general...as i remember-the most precious pills or whatever were those accidentaly found in times of scarce and withdrawls....felt almost like found a well in the desert

 

[Cheddar_Bob_313]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but i'll provide my 2 cents, for all it's worth.
The way I see it is that opiates are sort of an antidepressant to me. They make me feel good, they give me that boost of energy to get things done, they make me more empathetic and open with people. If money and supply wasn't an issue I'd be using every day. So in short opiates would be the greatest antidepressant in the world if they weren't so damn addictive along with other things.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I would finally be able to live my life without being in pain every minute of every day. It would be such an enormous relief I wouldn't even care about getting high. Just NOT being in debilitating pain would be amazing.

 

[Jen X]

I would finally be able to live my life without being in pain every minute of every day. It would be such an enormous relief I wouldn't even care about getting high. Just NOT being in debilitating pain would be amazing.

Sorry to hear. I have MS and i would most likely be on fentanyl if i didn't have a good doctor. Does your doctor give you anything at all? At my old methadone clinic there were a few people there getting methadone for pain