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Bupe a few more suboxone questions!

ickray

ickray

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
80
Just wondering, is there like anyway to compare a 8mg sub to oxycodone strength wise?
Also, what seems to be the average sub mg where you can still feel the effects of another opiate if taken after your sub dose?
For me it takes 4mg to get that mood lift happy feeling, but if I took a roxy at 4mg i'd feel it and it would enhance the sub and I'd nod hard.
Anything over 4 seems to block any opiate. How bout you guys?
 
It's hard to directly compare an opiate full-agonist with an opiate partial-agonist. 0.3mg buprenorphine IV=10 mg morphine IV, with oral oxycodone equal to IV morphine. About 1/3 sublingual bioavailability, so about 8mg sublingual= 2.67mg IV. So you would think it'd be like taking 90mg of oxycodone, but it's a partial-agonist(only partial stimulates the opiate part of the brain) and longer acting. For me, 8mg feels more like 60mg of oxycodone, only it last a day. It's even less sedating than oxycodone, though.

I can't feel other opiates on 4mg.
 
Buprenorphine and oxycodone don't form equivalents very easily, as buprenorphine is a partial agonist. As well, the higher opiate tolerance you have, the less effective buprenorphine will be for you.

"A few suboxone questions" belong in the Suboxone Mega Thread.
 
THC2LSD said:
It's hard to directly compare an opiate full-agonist with an opiate partial-agonist. 0.3mg buprenorphine IV=10 mg morphine IV, with oral oxycodone equal to IV morphine. About 1/3 sublingual bioavailability, so about 8mg sublingual= 2.67mg IV. So you would think it'd be like taking 90mg of oxycodone, but it's a partial-agonist(only partial stimulates the opiate part of the brain) and longer acting. For me, 8mg feels more like 60mg of oxycodone, only it last a day. It's even less sedating than oxycodone, though.

I can't feel other opiates on 4mg.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info! I feel like subs are way more sedating in the sence of knocking you out over a "high" so to speak.
I always just wanna either lay down or sleep when I take em.
I was always curious of how they related to each other strength wise.

i'm sorry, but what??... 4mgs of oxycodone??
Click to expand...

4mg suboxone I can still slightly feel some opiates.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Buprenorphine and oxycodone don't form equivalents very easily, as buprenorphine is a partial agonist. As well, the higher opiate tolerance you have, the less effective buprenorphine will be for you.

"A few suboxone questions" belong in the Suboxone Mega Thread.
Click to expand...

feel free to merge it, I was on my cell when I wrote this and it was a bitch to go through 40 pages.
 
I struggle with the bupe to morphine conversions. I can say that 300 micrograms of buprenorphine is no way qualitatively similar to fucking 10mg morphine IV. As someone else pointed out, the former is a partial agonist - many people cannot get real euphoria from it at any dose.

As for the dose at which you can still use other opiates - I always thought it was more like 2mg. I'm surprised that anyone can take 4mg bupe and then get high on oxy's.

Can I hijack this thread for an instant and ask a question of my own? I've used bupe a couple of times over the past weeks at doses of between 4mg and 10mg, generally insufflated. Now I've just come into some Panadeine Fortes (500mg paracetamol + 30mg codeine) - would these even touch me?
 
I think when they say 300 micrograms = 10 mg morphine they mean in opiate naive individuals. Someone who has no real tolerance to opioids would probably actually get higher off of the buprenorphine initially than the morphine, or at least, as high, but for a longer period of time. It's hard to equivilate buprenorphine to other opioids because of buprenorphine's cieling effect which seems to be different for everyone, but probably somewhere around the 6-8 mg mark (and when i talk in large doses like this I'm refering to the SL roa, the I.V cieling would be around 2 mg probably.) I have read though that at the point where buprenorphine levels off, it's equivalent to approx. 30 mg of methadone. So if your cieling effect is at 8 mg, that would be similar to 30 mg of methadone.

The reason most people that have an opioid tolerance don't get high off of buprenorphine like they would off a full agonist is because of this ceiling effect. It's probably safe to argue that they also wouldn't get "high" off of 30 mg of methadone either.

What I find annoying about suboxone is that it has such a long half life. Someone on some forum here (i think) did some algarithym that showed how buprenorphine builds up in your body. Basically if you take 16 mg a day, according to this graph, once you stabalize on this dosage after 11 days, you have about 40 mg of buprenorphine built up in your system from all the long half life. So according to that math, even a moderate dose of 4 mg/day, would still build up to an overall 10 mg in your system, basically meaning that the ammount of buprenorphine in your system is still at the cieling level. I don't know if all that is bullshit, please correct me if the information I posted was wrong, I'm just reporting something I read.

It would be awesome if bupe had a short half life, but somehow still a long duration, that way the dosages wouldn't build up, and if you stayed under the cieling limit, you could just pop another two mg and get a bit more buzzed off of it, but that's all just a dream anyway.
 
Actually Buprenex(.3mg) is effective for 4-8 hours with a half-life of 2.2 hours when taken IV, it's the higher sublingual doses that have a long half-life. Plus buprenorphine dissociates from the mu receptors much slower than morphine. When taken in the high sublingual doses, it half-life is 24-48 hours. In opiate experienced people not dependant on opiates, the ceiling effect is 8mg to 16mg, with higher doses only prolonging the effects.

Suessmayr, I doubt you will even feel the codeine. I can't even feel heroin at 4mg. This is because bupe is an antagonist of most opiates on par with naloxone(the antidote for ODs).
 
how can the half life change then?? that means the the SL dose I take which is pretty much equivalent to the I.V .3 mg, has a half life of 2.2 hours?? I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but where'd you get this info from?
 
THC2LSD said:
Actually Buprenex(.3mg) is effective for 4-8 hours with a half-life of 2.2 hours when taken IV, it's the higher sublingual doses that have a long half-life. Plus buprenorphine dissociates from the mu receptors much slower than morphine. When taken in the high sublingual doses, it half-life is 24-48 hours. In opiate experienced people not dependant on opiates, the ceiling effect is 8mg to 16mg, with higher doses only prolonging the effects.

Suessmayr, I doubt you will even feel the codeine. I can't even feel heroin at 4mg. This is because bupe is an antagonist of most opiates on par with naloxone(the antidote for ODs).
Click to expand...

Bupe is a partial agonist. And those half life numbers are not looking right to me either...?
 
Not to hijack my own thread but, do you guys think not swallowing the suboxone "juice" has any effect on strength / duration of the drug? Every time I swallow the "juices" I get a stomach ache. I'm just wondering if I'm actually losing part of the "buzz" by spitting it out all the time.
 
NomeGrown said:
Bupe is a partial agonist. And those half life numbers are not looking right to me either...?
Click to expand...

Buprenorphine affinity is so high, that it will block morphine's effect on pain in mice at almost the same doses as naloxone, even though it's not a mixed mu agonist/antagonist like pentazocine. It is not proven to reverse an overdose in humans. The half life looks too short to me too, but thats what the FDA approved prescribing information said. Perhaps sublingual acts like an extended release, or maybe anything higher than .3mg overwhelms the enzymes. Also buprenorphine might be like methadone, where pain doses are more frequent than maintanence doses. The prescribing info also said that in vitro buprenorphine has a slower dissociation from the mu receptors than morphine, so maybe brain concentrations drop slower than plasma.
source: http://www.rxlist.com/buprenex-drug.htm

I would not spit out after the subs dissolve, I always hold it in as long as possible, then swallow. I would bet there is bupe in the spit afterwards.
 
I see no reason or advantage to swallowing the left over juice from Suboxone.

First of all the tiny amount of buprenorphine that is not absorbed sublingually is going to have so little effect when swallowed that it would be negligible. This tiny amount is not going to add to the overall effects of the suboxone.

Second the Naloxone along with the buprenorphine could very possibly cause very negative side effects at the local opiate receptors in your gut and intestinal tract. I know the Naloxone will antagonize the receptors possibly causing cramping, diarrhea and other discomfort, and I don’t see why the buperenorphine would not do the same.

I always spit mine out after I have held it in as long as I possibly can and I have never felt that I was in any way wasting or leaving any of the bupe on the table.
 
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