A couple of Qs about the national Survey

[Sllip]

Why was it that there was no clear distinction between methamphetamine and amphetamine. Also why was 'ice' classed in the smae group as 'crystal meth' when it's a seperate chemical. And why was there two different clases of (meth)amphetamine, 'base' and speed, when these are the same chemical only a different look.

The questions seemed to be very poorly ressearched and structured in this area, then when it comes to the 1,4/GHB they made the clear distinction between the two, when few people know the difference between the two, and even less people would actually know if they were having 1,4 or GHB.

Just my little gripe about the survey.
Other then that it was a good little survey and the results would be interesting.

and don't know about you guys but I took my $30 and went straight to a hooker for a blow job. Na only joking.

 

[wazza]

a short point: ice in Australia is classed (usually) as meth not 4-MAR. Anyway it's slang, 4-MAR is 4-MAR, meth is short for methamphetamine.

The $30 was well spent on me huh sllip?

where to order me

 

[BigTrancer]

The short answer is that in the face of frequent debate about ice vs meth vs speed vs any random white powder that stops you from going to sleep, the terms all essentially mean the same thing on the street. We know there's a difference between the actual chemicals methamphetamine and 4-methylaminorex, but at the end user level, unless they test a sample with Marquis and get a clear reaction from a powder sample which acts for all the world like a very strong clear-headed stimulant, there is no sense in arguing about it. Nobody will convince me they've had anything but methamphetamine unless it's tested clear - and even then there's no guarantee that it's 4-MAR - it's just 'not an amphetamine-like substance because the test result was not an orange colour change under Marquis'...

BigTrancer

 

[Flexistentialist]

Which national survey are you talking about?

If it's the IDRS (Illicit Drug Reporting System) which I think it is, then I might be able to answer some of your questions.

There's been a fair bit of confusion amongst researchers and drug and alcohol professionals about the various types of meth/amphetamine. Like many people on BL (before the My Nanna thread) the slang makes it difficult to ascertain exactly what we're talking about.

In order to address this issue amongst researchers, a study was attached to the IDRS in 2001 which looked specifically at the different types of meth/amphetamine. Participants were asked to describe the look as well as price, purity and availability of four different "types" of methampetamine.

These included "ice", "base", "pure" and "shabu". Particpants who'd used "speed" were excluded from this study, because the identity of "speed" had already been determined (ie - powder, usually sold in grams).

Participants were asked what they thought the various products were, how it was sold, what it looked like, subjective effects etc.

The results of this are available in a 300k .pdf from the IDRS Website. The title of the paper is Methamphetamine Forms in Australia. It has a meth ID sheet and descriptions of each product based on user reports. This meth ID sheet has been used in the IDRS here in Brisbane, and participants are asked to describe the actual types of meth/ampetamine they are taking by pointing out a picture of the product.

It may be different in your state.

This data is available, but for some reason most of the time the results are published grouped together as "amphetamines". The full text IDRS Reports might have the information you're looking for.

 

[Sllip]

I think that's the one.

I was thought it was a bit vague, and slightly in accurate, to be classing 'base' and 'speed' and two different things. As BT mentioned I thought it would have been a more accurate survey had you bunched together meth and amph since most end user would not a) know there is a difference, and b) be able to tell the difference. Instead there was three different classes for what should have been 2 at most.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm usually pretty picky about details in my own work.

And damn Wazza, and I know I should have come directly to you because I would have got $28 change for you services. I'll even pring the 1,4 to wash that nasty taste out of your mouth.

 

[Flexistentialist]

Here's the NDARC descriptions of the different types of meth that goes with the Meth ID Sheet from Methamphetamine Forms in Australia. The pictures they're referring to are in the pdf I linked to above.

(i) 'Speed' - also known as goey or whiz, this is methamphetamine powder that is manufactured in Australia and ranges in colour from white to yellow, orange, brown or pink. It is usually of relatively low purity, although the purity of speed may be increasing. We propose that the market would currently identify the drugs pictured in A1-A4 as speed.

(ii) 'Pills' - methamphetamine tablets that are mostly manufactured in Australia and are generally sold as 'ecstasy'. Sometimes these 'fake ecstasy' tablets are mixed with drugs like ketamine to try to mimic the effects of MDMA (real ecstasy). MDMA is almost always imported; very few clandestine laboratories with the capacity to make MDMA have recently been identified in Australia. Pictures of methamphetamine in pill form have not been included in the identification sheet as these are easily identifiable, and are generally not marketed as methamphetamine, but rather as ecstasy.

(iii) 'Base' - also called paste, wax, point and pure, this is an oily, gluggy or
pastey type of damp, sticky powder that often has a brownish tinge and is
difficult to dissolve for injection without heat. Base is manufactured in Australia and is usually of relatively high purity. We propose that the market would currently identify the drugs pictured in B1 and B3 - B10 as base. B2 has been fairly consistently identified as ox blood, a liquid form of methamphetamine that is not widely available and is usually red in colour.

(iv) 'Ice' - also called shabu, crystal and crystal meth, this is high purity
methamphetamine crystals or coarse powder that ranges in colour from
translucent to white, but may have a green, blue or pink tinge. True 'ice' is
manufactured in Asia and imported into Australia. We propose that the market would currently identify the drugs pictured in C1- C5 as ice or crystal meth.

There's a range of reason why they draw distinctions between the different types of methamphetamine. For example, in the late 1990's "base" (as defined above) became more popular here in Brisbane, and the powder speed became less common. This lead to increases in injecting (because it was often sold wet, and also it was marketed as "pure") as well as increases in violence, psychosis and addiction.

The rise of crystal meth is also an important issue for researchers to map, because it brings with it a whole set of other issues (from smoking for example). The different forms of methamphetamine bring with them different patterns of use, and different potential problems as well. In terms of harm reduction, its important to know exactly what it is people are taking in order to provide harm reduction that is relevant.

At the end of NDARC's Methampehtmaine Forms in Australia they give this reason for dividing the various forms of methamphetmaine.

...we hope that you will agree that (1) the use of consistent terminology; and (2) achieving an understanding of the market from the viewpoint of the market participants themselves, are both valuable steps toward a more thorough understanding of Australia's dynamic methamphetamine markets. We believe that the dissemination of these identification sheets constitutes an important step toward achieving those goals, and hope that you will find it a useful resource in your dealings with methamphetamine users.

 

[phase_dancer]

Thanks Flexistentialist

^

 

[kooky77]

From what I've read and understand, what we call speed or wiz in Australia is "Methamphetamine Hydrochloride"
And what we call glass or meth is Methamphetamine Free Base.
Is this correct? Can anyone add to this?

 

[Sllip]

Ok cool. I understand now if you had to stick to the prescribed "standard" so that there can be some cross referencing of studies for the future.

 

[WalkaboutMibrane]

For those wanting a comparison with IDRS, and FYI those wonderful bluelighters who agreed to take part, the full report of the "AIVL National Snapshot of Psychostimulant Injectors" has now been printed and distributed to state-based drug user organisations.
The project user peer-based researchers (ie the researchers had to fit the same criteria as the "subjects" - at least one whack'a stimulant in the last six months. In reality both researcher and researchees were using a fair bit more than that.)
I think we did a great job with it, and I think it would undoubtedly be of interest to all psychostimulant users, whether you choose to whack at this point or not.
I'll start writing some of it up in a new thread, but get down to (or phone or email) your local user org and pick up a copy.
Oh, and at least some of you got paid by IDRS. "key informants" (workers for user orgs, treatment agencies etc) have to sit through an even longer interview and get sweet FA. 8(