Kratom 7oh powder injection?

[4DQSAR]

Don't worry - there are other 'naturally occuring' opioids that are structually unrelated to anything legally controlled in the USA (as far as I know).

But I'm sure it will come as no surprise that the replacement will be more hazardous and that in truth the products would likely be de facto semi-synthetic.

I just imagine that the people who set up bottling plants for kratom based drinks will have a lot of sunk-cost and if an alternative exists, they will adapt. In fact, I would be quite surprised if they haven't already worked out which semi-synthetic would make a reasonable substitute.

I always assume that if I know, people who profit from addiction also know.

 

[Didgital]

Don't worry - there are other 'naturally occuring' opioids that are structually unrelated to anything legally controlled in the USA (as far as I know).

But I'm sure it will come as no surprise that the replacement will be more hazardous and that in truth the products would likely be de facto semi-synthetic.

I just imagine that the people who set up bottling plants for kratom based drinks will have a lot of sunk-cost and if an alternative exists, they will adapt. In fact, I would be quite surprised if they haven't already worked out which semi-synthetic would make a reasonable substitute.

I always assume that if I know, people who profit from addiction also know.

Well the DEA was smart in this case and banned the next ones with the 7-OH. I'd never even seen MGM-16 available and I suspect it's beyond the reach of most of the chemists who have been cranking out 7-OH or MGM-15.

 

[PtahTek]

now wondering if i can "draw" my own naturally produced opioids so i can condense and press it for later consumption....

 

[4DQSAR]

now wondering if i can "draw" my own naturally produced opioids so i can condense and press it for later consumption....

YES.

The problem with the endogenous (peptide) opiates the body produces are typically not that potent and are quite fragile.

I think a better path may be to look into enkephalin inhibitors that stop the body from metabolising the endogenous mu receptor ligands.

Years and years ago, @fastandbulbous pointed out RB-101 and it's tamed medically used varient racecadotril. As they pointed out, this class of ligand is highly unlikely to produce an overdose as the body will down-regulate the production of the endogenous opioids.

I do think that indirecly acting on the opiate reeptors would pose some unusual problems for any law enforcement agency.

On the ULDN thread I posted a link to a 2024 paper in which a novel compound was shown to be totally inactive if administered alone. But it has the unusual property of making naloxone and naltrexone behave like agonists. As I pointed out allosteric sites of the opiate receptors have been studied for a decade and there are dozens of known ligands. My simple question was 'if a class of ligands are totally inactive if consumed alone, how would law enforcement deal with them?

Sadly the researchers did not test buprenorphine or nalefene. The former I'm unsure of but I would bet £1 that nalmefene would also act as an agonist in the presence of the novel ligand.

I always assume that if I know, the people who profit from destroying the lives of others will also know.

 

[thurston]

horrible idea and its not water soluable unless very acidic-it would be like crack it would make u want to redose just dont
and here is some info for someone else that posted about numb limbs etc
and my response

WARNING I used 7oh since oct 2024-about 4 months ago?
limbs started going numb esp. when asleep-and I started gettin weird bp spikes than drops every single dose like clockwork and the wd even on subs i get waves of depression etc . matching when i would dose 7 even though im on subs for 11 days now-

so anyway about the odd side effects- I was just in er and admitted 4 days bcs it was a friday night and they wanted to do tets on me-but couldnt until monday-ultrasound- treadmill stress test cat scan- etc
for chest pain tachycardia bp spikes/dropsnumbing 'asleep'-limbs/fingertips and -faint 'stabbing' pains in lungs i thought were 'walking pnuemonia'
and just overall worsening lethargy and feeling like i was 'dying'energy and mood wise
-I was switched to subs and slowly feel alive with random panic/tachycardia-.
subs was scary choice bcs i was on subs way back in 2003-7 on 24 mg down to 4mg by 2007 and i moved and ran out on 4mg it was not pleasant-but the 7 was ;literally killing me-and cost me my savings-

so please anybody check this out-below- esp. the bullet points/facts
and is probably why-the numbness/constriction etc.
if using 7/kratom id stop while ur ahead
I spoke with 2 different detoxthey say this 7 wave they say its bad
and the er staff and upstairs nurses etc. where they had me until monday all said they are seeing hearing very concerning things with cardio mental health and 7oh/kratom use.

=Mitragynines and 7oh Pharmacology profile=
Structurally similar to yohimbine, Activity on μ, δ, and κ receptors, Main activity on μ receptors creating opiate and analgesic effects and physical dependence, Inhibits radioligand binding at central nervous system receptors, Activates descending noradrenergic and serotonergic pathways in spinal cord, Stimulates postsynaptic α2-adrenergic receptors, Blocks stimulation of 5-hydroxytryptamine2A receptors.


high affinity for the α2-adrenergic receptor, moderate affinity for the α1 receptor, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, 5-HT1F, 5-HT2B, and dopamine D2 receptors, and weak affinity for the 5-HT1E, 5-HT2A, 5-HT5A, 5-HT7, and dopamine D3 receptors. It behaves as an antagonist at α1-adrenergic, α2-adrenergic, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, and dopamine D2, and as a partial agonist at 5-HT1A. Yohimbine interacts with serotonin and dopamine receptors in high concentrations.


μ, δ, and κ are Mu, delta, and kappa opioid receptors and are activated in when using Kratom. Oxycodone binds to the μ-opioid receptor and activates the μ-opioid receptor, whereas it does not bind to the κ-opioid receptor and does not activate the κ-opioid receptor. It's extra-ordinary that Kratom binds and activates all three μ, δ, and κ opiod receptors.

"To delineate more clearly the in vitro pharmacology of kratom, we conducted high-throughput molecular screening of mitragynine activity at central nervous system receptors (Novascreen Biosciences Corp., Hanover, MD, USA); these studies identified that mitragynine extensively inhibits radioligand binding at several central nervous system receptor systems.

*Iadded l the word (BAD) at end of some lines in lower bullet points/comments -

because these affects they ARE all bad/hard on the body-
also do a search on reddits for7oh- chest pain etc. it also messes with calcium and potassium channel clamping involved in heart/function rate.

Kratom/7oh exerts opioid and α-2 receptor agonistic effects as well as antiinflammatory and parasympathetic-impeding effects. Here some effects when the α-2 receptor is binded to and activated.

*Suppression of release of norepinephrine (noradrenaline) by negative feedback.(=BAD)can lead to 'adrenal fatigue'

*Transient hypertension (increase in blood pressure), followed by a sustained hypotension (decrease in blood pressure).(=BAD)

*Vasoconstriction of certain arteries(=BAD)

*Vasoconstriction of arteries to heart (coronary artery)(=BAD)
Constriction of some vascular smooth muscle(=BAD)

*Venoconstriction of veins(=BAD)

*Decrease motility of smooth muscle in gastrointestinal tract(=BAD)

*Inhibition of lipolysis(=BAD)

*decline of cognitive functions associated with the prefrontal cortex (PFC; working memory, attention, executive functioning, etc.)(=BAD)

Sedation

Analgesia
NOTE;
ALL THIS CONSTRICTION AND NUMBING ETC. IS ALSO OBVIUOSLY A CLOT FORMATION RISK.

I have also read a mouse study where it ALSO damages amygdala or hypothalmus...
and this sr17018 every1 is using to get off 7oh- is purportedly causing permanant receptor damage-
I cant verify that but i have seen it in warnings.(havent seen science paper/source)

I have to admit, now that I've quit taking 7 oh my girlfriend and I can see a difference in my mental health. It was causing quite a bit of anxiety and OCD symptoms. I was strongly considering going to a psychiatrist before I quit.

 

[thurston]

Don't worry - there are other 'naturally occuring' opioids that are structually unrelated to anything legally controlled in the USA (as far as I know).

But I'm sure it will come as no surprise that the replacement will be more hazardous and that in truth the products would likely be de facto semi-synthetic.

I just imagine that the people who set up bottling plants for kratom based drinks will have a lot of sunk-cost and if an alternative exists, they will adapt. In fact, I would be quite surprised if they haven't already worked out which semi-synthetic would make a reasonable substitute.

I always assume that if I know, people who profit from addiction also know.

My guess is they are already in the hemp THC drink biz.

 

[4DQSAR]

It was causing quite a bit of anxiety and OCD symptoms. I was strongly considering going to a psychiatrist before I quit.

If I may ask, do you mean you ended up only feeling secure if you had a large supply to hand and that your daily routine ended up revolving around consuming the drinks at very specific times?

Because I know that one. I even started to have nighmares in which I almost but could never actually obtained the stuff due to random (and often bizarre) events.

Ridiculous because I have multiple boxes of the pain killers I'm prescribed and zero desire to take more than prescribed. I think it was because most events in my life I couldn't control so I dwelt on the few rather minor things I COULD control.

 

[Esperighanto]

I have said it before and will say it again. We have to be wise like an owl and sly like a fox. I do believe if there were no threads like this that it would have been overlooked. But between Reddit and all the other medias people talked about this a lot. I knew it would get attention. But I also feel like people should have a place to talk about harm reduction. People should have the freedom to talk about things. But also should know it causes attention. I am 50/50 on how I feel about threads like this. Confusing.

Then of course 7-OH will just move to the DN. That just goes to show making things illegal so people won't do them does not work.

I suspect that it will get picked up regardless, not because of open discussion, but because the general population aren't reading these sites they're just using.

someone is always going to say fuck it let's try, then things go south, and hospitals get involved, it starts getting tracked.

open discussion might accelerate things but I'm not sure it's material enough to warrant stopping HR discussion, better to let people have somewhere to seek help IMHO

To both the comments by JackARoe and placebonaut quoted above: The intersection of posts like this on reddit/BL/Other online platforms, as well as access to unregulated pressies through gas stations and smoke shops were probably all confounding factors to this ban occurring, if I were to hazard a guess at least.

Well the DEA was smart in this case and banned the next ones with the 7-OH. I'd never even seen MGM-16 available and I suspect it's beyond the reach of most of the chemists who have been cranking out 7-OH or MGM-15.

As far as I can tell, the synthetic route towards MGM-16 would be most reliably performed by synthing the mitragynine from scratch with the fluorine in place which is some shit I imagine would uh, virtuall never be worth it from a capitalistic standpoint. I suspect they just took the list of every mitragyna alk other than mitragynine from a Wikipedia category or something, idrk. I bet that 7-glutaryloxymitagynine may be worth it though, idrk, 4-glutaryloxytryptamines are active it appears.

if a class of ligands are totally inactive if consumed alone, how would law enforcement deal with them?

In the US, there are many fully inactive precursors that are scheduled, so here I bet they'd be willing to criminalize anything they thought would allow them to incarcerate more poor and otherwise marginalized populations, given our for-profit prison industrial complex.

Because I know that one. I even started to have nighmares in which I almost but could never actually obtained the stuff due to random (and often bizarre) events.

What was the specific substance that you were scared of not being access to the point that it haunted your dreams?

 

[thurston]

If I may ask, do you mean you ended up only feeling secure if you had a large supply to hand and that your daily routine ended up revolving around consuming the drinks at very specific times?

Because I know that one. I even started to have nighmares in which I almost but could never actually obtained the stuff due to random (and often bizarre) events.

Ridiculous because I have multiple boxes of the pain killers I'm prescribed and zero desire to take more than prescribed. I think it was because most events in my life I couldn't control so I dwelt on the few rather minor things I COULD control.

No, I didn't have supply issues anxiety. My doses were always low and not expensive to keep going. I took it strictly for chronic pain. I mean OCD like ruminating thoughts, songs playing in my head ALL the time, neurotic acting. Like mild stimulant psychosis.