Opioids 7oh and suboxone

[Kurt Cobain]

well tramadol script of 10 years made me suicidal when it was pulled due to the snri activity-so idk if thats a good idea at all-maybe very short term some pple have issues after 2 weeks on it-i clsd tell for 3 days after if i took 2 insted of 1 and up to 2 weeks afetr bcs of the snri effect- so got on 7 now that has me suicidal wd-so got subz friday

You're just playing hopscotch with opioid man, if they're causing you to be suicidal maybe it's just time to totally stop if you can? 7 is one of the worst opioids if for nothing else bc of the super short half life and constant need to redose, with the higher prices to boot.. If you're looking to maintain sure go subs but just know those are gonna suck too after awhile and you will want to get off but now you'll have to deal with over a MONTH of physical opiate withdraw and it fucking sucks

 

[DieTrying]

I'd agree 7oh damages a lot. It's some nasty shit in high doses for prolonged periods of time like a couple of weeks. It made me breakout like mad, arms and legs going numb constantly and my ears always felt like I was underwater. 7oh can be cool and all but I'd be careful people while you can't OD on it, even high purity powder was extremely hard on my body, even before I got to high doses started having issues when I very first started at doses as low as 60-100mg per day

WARNING going numb is bad I was just in er and admitted 4 days on treadmill etc chest pain tachycardia bp spikes/drops-limbs/fingertips going numb-faint stabbing pains in lungs i thought were 'walking pnuemonia' and just lethargy and feeling like i was dying-i was switched to subs and slowly feel alive with random panic/tachycardia-.
check this out-below- probably why-the numbness/constriction etc. id stop while ur ahead
detox 2 diff say its bad and the er and upstairs nurses etc all said they are seeing hearing very concerning things with cardio etc-

Mitragynines and 7oh Pharmacology profile:
Structurally similar to yohimbine, Activity on μ, δ, and κ receptors, Main activity on μ receptors creating opiate and analgesic effects and physical dependence, Inhibits radioligand binding at central nervous system receptors, Activates descending noradrenergic and serotonergic pathways in spinal cord, Stimulates postsynaptic α2-adrenergic receptors, Blocks stimulation of 5-hydroxytryptamine2A receptors.


high affinity for the α2-adrenergic receptor, moderate affinity for the α1 receptor, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, 5-HT1F, 5-HT2B, and dopamine D2 receptors, and weak affinity for the 5-HT1E, 5-HT2A, 5-HT5A, 5-HT7, and dopamine D3 receptors. It behaves as an antagonist at α1-adrenergic, α2-adrenergic, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, and dopamine D2, and as a partial agonist at 5-HT1A. Yohimbine interacts with serotonin and dopamine receptors in high concentrations.


μ, δ, and κ are Mu, delta, and kappa opioid receptors and are activated in when using Kratom. Oxycodone binds to the μ-opioid receptor and activates the μ-opioid receptor, whereas it does not bind to the κ-opioid receptor and does not activate the κ-opioid receptor. It's extra-ordinary that Kratom binds and activates all three μ, δ, and κ opiod receptors.

"To delineate more clearly the in vitro pharmacology of kratom, we conducted high-throughput molecular screening of mitragynine activity at central nervous system receptors (Novascreen Biosciences Corp., Hanover, MD, USA); these studies identified that mitragynine extensively inhibits radioligand binding at several central nervous system receptor systems.

*i added l the word (BAD) in lower bullet points/comments -
because they are all bad/hard on the body-
also do a search on reddits for7oh- chest pain etc. it also messes with calcium and potassium channel clamping involved in heart/function rate.

Kratom/7oh exerts opioid and α-2 receptor agonistic effects as well as antiinflammatory and parasympathetic-impeding effects. Here some effects when the α-2 receptor is binded to and activated.

*Suppression of release of norepinephrine (noradrenaline) by negative feedback.(=BAD)can lead to 'adrenal fatigue'

*Transient hypertension (increase in blood pressure), followed by a sustained hypotension (decrease in blood pressure).(=BAD)

*Vasoconstriction of certain arteries(=BAD)

*Vasoconstriction of arteries to heart (coronary artery)(=BAD)
Constriction of some vascular smooth muscle(=BAD)

*Venoconstriction of veins(=BAD)

*Decrease motility of smooth muscle in gastrointestinal tract(=BAD)

*Inhibition of lipolysis(=BAD)

*decline of cognitive functions associated with the prefrontal cortex (PFC; working memory, attention, executive functioning, etc.)(=BAD)

Sedation

Analgesia
NOTE;
ALL THIS CONSTRICTION AND NUMBING ETC. IS ALSO OBVIUOSLY A CLOT FORMATION RISK.

I have also read a mouse study where it ALSO damages amygdala or hypothalmus...
and this sr17018 every1 is using to get off 7oh- is purportedly causing permanant receptor damage-
I cant verify that but i have seen it in warnings.(havent seen science paper/source)

 

[Harmreduction40k]

Hi! 1st, I hope you are doing well and feeling better! Hopefully everything went smooth and you are off and away from this!

2nd, QuickMD questions! I’m in a similar boat…dependent on opia Kratom extract tablet. Need to quick asap but withdrawals set in anywhere from 7-12 hours after my last dose! People have to me to do QuickMD for gabapentin, but I’m terrified of getting placed on some list or database for dependency issues, withdrawal help, substance abuse, withdrawal meds, you name it. No one in my family knows and I don’t want anyone to! I want to get control over this and just move on without having to involve anyone else. I also can only get C-sections and have dental phobia so I rely on pain meds for recovery and anti anxiety meds for procedures. I’m nervous that by going to QuickMD that it will follow me and cause issues with getting meds in future or insurance labeling me with something, etc. What did you do? Did your family or reg Dr find out about your quickMD? Did you use insurance?

Hey there, I know it can seem scary to be placed on a list, but the benefits are worth it and its not as bad as you think. I have been on suboxone maintenance for over 6 years and I had a DUI when I was 18. I am on a addict list in the medical system and criminal list as a US citizen. I was able to get my masters in Education and get a job as a middle school teacher all while disclosing my criminal record to my employers. Do not let fear of being on a list stop you from getting help.

 

[hatethegame74]

I have failed twice using suboxone to try quitting OPIA 7OH tablets. It just doesn’t seem to address the WD symptoms like you mentioned the anxiety for one. Does anyone have a better method using 8/2 bupe tablets & other meds that would help? It’s so hard trying to taper anything in my world. I start with great intentions but…. I can’t afford this $100 a day habit. I would rather replace 7 with bupe & let my doc taper me off it reducing the strength. Thanks in advance ya’ll. I’ve learned a lot from this thread.

 

[Allylbenzene]

It just doesn’t seem to address the WD symptoms like you mentioned the anxiety for one. Does anyone have a better method using 8/2 bupe tablets & other meds that would help? It’s so hard trying to taper anything in my world. I start with great intentions but…. I can’t afford this $100 a day habit.

This fairly inexpensive combo should feasibly do the job. Fully otc and no experimental items. It addresses the metabolic side of things as well as the regular opioid/dopamine side.

 

[ak2013]

Very low, maybe 2-3mgs per day for a few days when I was trying to kick the 7oh. I'm personally pretty sensitive to subs blocking effect, very small doses block me for a couple days. I get nothing from taking large doses of subs beyond what 2-3mg can produce so I always keep it low cause I'd jusy be wasting it. They were the films though and tbh I know people say there is no difference between brands but these ones suck or suboxone is just terrible at helping with 7oh wd. Currently going through a 7oh kick again worked my way up to damn near a gram a day of 7oh and took some sub yesterday as it was the first day off and it did absolutely fuck all. Gabapentin and 5mg Valium mixed with 1mg Xanax did much much more to help me than the bupe which I think is weird as fuck.

I’m currently trying to find ways off 7OH. I’m surprised Bupe did very little. Will bupe case precipitated WD if you take it while on 7Oh, or no?

 

[Kurt Cobain]

I’m currently trying to find ways off 7OH. I’m surprised Bupe did very little. Will bupe case precipitated WD if you take it while on 7Oh, or no?

That I'm actually unsure of, 1 time I swear bupe gave me precips from 7oh but I was also forcing myself to go to work that day so could've just been getting there making it worse, either way even if it did it'd be over fast and the window you'd have to wait much shorter. You should be fine though if you were at a high dose of 7 for any legenth of time I wouldn't expect much help from subs though rathe I'd look into gabapentanoids.

 

[ak2013]

That I'm actually unsure of, 1 time I swear bupe gave me precips from 7oh but I was also forcing myself to go to work that day so could've just been getting there making it worse, either way even if it did it'd be over fast and the window you'd have to wait much shorter. You should be fine though if you were at a high dose of 7 for any legenth of time I wouldn't expect much help from subs though rathe I'd look into gabapentanoids.

I actually have a running script for Gabapentin from my doc due to the nerve damage. I don’t take it regularly, but last time I hit a precipitated WD (due to the covid antiviral, didn’t know) it didn’t do shit. May be because I have existing nerve damage, not sure. I’d rather avoid Bupe to get off 7OH, but I can always have it as a worst case scenario

 

[Kurt Cobain]

I actually have a running script for Gabapentin from my doc due to the nerve damage. I don’t take it regularly, but last time I hit a precipitated WD (due to the covid antiviral, didn’t know) it didn’t do shit. May be because I have existing nerve damage, not sure. I’d rather avoid Bupe to get off 7OH, but I can always have it as a worst case scenario

I actually have a running script for Gabapentin from my doc due to the nerve damage. I don’t take it regularly, but last time I hit a precipitated WD (due to the covid antiviral, didn’t know) it didn’t do shit. May be because I have existing nerve damage, not sure. I’d rather avoid Bupe to get off 7OH, but I can always have it as a worst case scenario

Not much is going to alleive or take you out of PWds aside from a monster dose of whatever opioid you're on and even then you'd have to take a shit load that's a whole different thing than taking gabapentin for regular withdrawals. At the start of your withdrawals start taking 300mg of gabapentin ever half hour to an hour until you're comfortable and 60-75% of all withdrawals will go away that I can almost guarantee you

 

[zeespiralout]

Okay I have to chime in on this because I was on suboxone for 5 years and relapsed with 7oh. I was already miserable so I figured I was happier using so why am I clinging to subs when they aren’t helping at all( I also have RA, so lots of pain.) obviously my addiction brain was leading the charge. lol
So I started just taking it a couple days every month and I was able to flip back and forth with little issues for the first 3 months or so. But it started getting harder, even though the days and use were the same. The second to last time my bil came in to town and the day he got there was the day I ran out of fun money and had to switch back. The whole time he was here(4 days) I felt like I was losing my mind. I thought I was just having a panic attack because everything I read said I could switch. Well, the next time I thought I would wait until I was in decent withdrawal before taking it, just in case because I have been through it with methadone to subs, which was very awful. This time, I don’t even really know how much the subs were helping cuz it felt like taking clonidine while sick. Almost zero help. At that point, I was already miserable on subs and I just gave up.
I have heard people say it helped but I also hear a lot of people say it didn’t. I wonder if being on subs for years first affected its level of effectiveness. That’s the only thing I can think of because I have been on opioids for a long long time and I am telling you they did almost nothing for 7 withdrawals.
Just my own experience to add.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Okay I have to chime in on this because I was on suboxone for 5 years and relapsed with 7oh. I was already miserable so I figured I was happier using so why am I clinging to subs when they aren’t helping at all( I also have RA, so lots of pain.) obviously my addiction brain was leading the charge. lol
So I started just taking it a couple days every month and I was able to flip back and forth with little issues for the first 3 months or so. But it started getting harder, even though the days and use were the same. The second to last time my bil came in to town and the day he got there was the day I ran out of fun money and had to switch back. The whole time he was here(4 days) I felt like I was losing my mind. I thought I was just having a panic attack because everything I read said I could switch. Well, the next time I thought I would wait until I was in decent withdrawal before taking it, just in case because I have been through it with methadone to subs, which was very awful. This time, I don’t even really know how much the subs were helping cuz it felt like taking clonidine while sick. Almost zero help. At that point, I was already miserable on subs and I just gave up.
I have heard people say it helped but I also hear a lot of people say it didn’t. I wonder if being on subs for years first affected its level of effectiveness. That’s the only thing I can think of because I have been on opioids for a long long time and I am telling you they did almost nothing for 7 withdrawals.
Just my own experience to add.

Nah I think 7oh is just more competitive than subs at the receptor sites so bupe has a hard time knocking it off of em to replace it that or 7oh is just a lot more potent than subs or we're getting sold RCs lol

 

[Barncat]

Interesting thread. I just recently started experimenting with 7OH and wish I had known about it sooner. I'm not complaining about having a truly effective substance handy for those times I wind up short on my Rx meds.it is something to be approached with caution. The effect reminds me of the good old days of low tolerance and my conditions being controlled well with a single 7.5 Norco. I have serious pain issues and an amputated lower right leg that insists it is still there and needs to hurt. The phantoms from it trigger a nerve response in my whole body. I don't have any sort of education in chemistry so all I have to go on is does it work? To that yes it certainly does. I'm not hooked on the stuff and normally subs take care of my issues so that's my maintenance med. The 7OH was a pleasant surprise to have handy if I need it but the cost and the fact it does work so well keep me on very regulated use of it. I haven't tried doing 7 and subs together and probably won't. I like the subs because they have legs and keep me from climbing the walls on days that aren't busy and I do't have a focus to keep my mid off the pai and discomfort. I can plainly see the addictive potential in the 7OH.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

Interesting thread. I just recently started experimenting with 7OH and wish I had known about it sooner. I'm not complaining about having a truly effective substance handy for those times I wind up short on my Rx meds.it is something to be approached with caution. The effect reminds me of the good old days of low tolerance and my conditions being controlled well with a single 7.5 Norco. I have serious pain issues and an amputated lower right leg that insists it is still there and needs to hurt. The phantoms from it trigger a nerve response in my whole body. I don't have any sort of education in chemistry so all I have to go on is does it work? To that yes it certainly does. I'm not hooked on the stuff and normally subs take care of my issues so that's my maintenance med. The 7OH was a pleasant surprise to have handy if I need it but the cost and the fact it does work so well keep me on very regulated use of it. I haven't tried doing 7 and subs together and probably won't. I like the subs because they have legs and keep me from climbing the walls on days that aren't busy and I do't have a focus to keep my mid off the pai and discomfort. I can plainly see the addictive potential in the 7OH.

Be very careful like I said before dependance can form within two days of minor usage. It's honestly scary how fast it comes on and my dumbass keeps telling myself I can beat it lol respect it more so than most other things and it'll respect you. My suggestion for use? Treat it like a psychedelic a once in a while treat to help clear your head

 

[TheLebowski]

So I read and used this forum before trying to switch from 7 to sub.

First a quick background. I used to switch between subs and any medical based opiate ALL THE TIME. Then, one day, I got some laced Oxys that had fent in em. I went to do my normal routine and fell into PWs… and let me tell you, you never ever forget that hell on earth. Infact it scared me into not touching opiates again for well over a year, maybe more than 2 years. Then, my sub connect went to jail for a long time lol. So to help ease the cold turkey sub problem, I used Kratom. It helped, then I found 7-HO. Been on it for 8 months or so and like everyone else here my tolerance went thru the roof QUICKLY(bout 300-400mgs a day) So, I called a buddy who I know is on sub maintenance and squeezed a small stack of em off him. I went to induce using the COWS scale and took what I used to take back in the day (4ish mgs subutex strip) as the OP stated, it did fuck all, but I definitely knew it wasn’t the hell on earth that PWs were. So the sub just didn’t do shit for my 7-ho wds. But I knew it wasn’t PWs so I waited 3 hours and took another, larger dose of sub (5-6mgs). It did knock out the unbearable wds. I’m gunna dose again before bed.

So I am another testimony that initially sub does not knock out wds like it would for normal opiates. But hang in there, it does start to work

 

[Harmreduction40k]

Just posting in this topic because it's close to what I am dealing with. I have been on 16 MG of generic suboxone for like 7 years and I made me able to function get my master's degree, and get a salaried work from home job I love. My one big issue is I always take more then I should when I first get my script and run out by the end of the month. I don't usually even feel high from this maybe if I haven't had any for like 8 days then I feel something. I just have an addict brain. I discovered 7oh works from the withdrawal when I run out, but 7oh DOES get me high and I feel like I'm slowly getting closer to full addiction. I am currently doing a week on 7oh and 3 week suboxone give or take. never at the same time. Al the post I read on here talk about doing 2mg or less and I'm just wondering how do you mentally make that leap and not have your addict brain need more.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

So I read and used this forum before trying to switch from 7 to sub.

First a quick background. I used to switch between subs and any medical based opiate ALL THE TIME. Then, one day, I got some laced Oxys that had fent in em. I went to do my normal routine and fell into PWs… and let me tell you, you never ever forget that hell on earth. Infact it scared me into not touching opiates again for well over a year, maybe more than 2 years. Then, my sub connect went to jail for a long time lol. So to help ease the cold turkey sub problem, I used Kratom. It helped, then I found 7-HO. Been on it for 8 months or so and like everyone else here my tolerance went thru the roof QUICKLY(bout 300-400mgs a day) So, I called a buddy who I know is on sub maintenance and squeezed a small stack of em off him. I went to induce using the COWS scale and took what I used to take back in the day (4ish mgs subutex strip) as the OP stated, it did fuck all, but I definitely knew it wasn’t the hell on earth that PWs were. So the sub just didn’t do shit for my 7-ho wds. But I knew it wasn’t PWs so I waited 3 hours and took another, larger dose of sub (5-6mgs). It did knock out the unbearable wds. I’m gunna dose again before bed.

So I am another testimony that initially sub does not knock out wds like it would for normal opiates. But hang in there, it does start to work

It doesn't do fuck all for me no matter how much I take. I have only had luck with using subs for 7 wd one time and my habit was smaller on that bender and I was actually able to get tabs and snort them but I've eaten TONS of strips and it never did a single thing

 

[aspiringchemist]

I kinda can’t believe pseudo has a higher affinity than buprenorphine. I’ve got extensive experience with many opioids, especially bupe and kratom alkaloids. I used pseudo and 7OH to walk myself off of 16mg/day subs.

Does anyone have experience using 7OH or pseudo specifically for fentanyl withdrawal?

I have unfortunately developed a nasty fent habit over the past 3 months. I’ve stopped using 7OH and pseudo and have experienced PW a couple times when trying to induce back onto subs. I feel very trapped and can’t really afford to keep this up. PW scares the hell out of me now.

I took 30mg pseudo + 30mg 7OH an hour ago (last fent use ~4 hours) and I’m blown away by how effective it’s been for the past hour. Knowing that it binds stronger than bupe, I suppose this makes sense. For quite a while after I stopped the bupe I was using pseudo and 7OH in roughly 60mg doses but it got to where I had to take it every 2 to 3 hours and caused serious side effects.

I would prefer not to go to a methadone program. I’ve been using methadone and morphine when I run out of fent. Ideally, I get back on the subs and I am able to use the alkaloids to quit the fent.

 

[reezyr]

Well folks its time for me to quit this poison for good.

Been taking a few packs of those 500mg 7oh + psuedo kama packs a day and my body is fucked up. Skin is awful red and acne filled. Have pain in my kidneys. Am so constipated it makes me sick sometimes. Im done. I pray i havent done too much permanent damage. What a waste of money.

Have people found switching from just 7oh -> suboxone easier than 7oh + psuedo -> suboxone? I went on a trip in December and had been taking just 7oh prior and was able to stay relatively well just using subs almost immediately after my last dose. I went on another trip more recently after starting to take psuedo daily and found that this was no longer the case. Had to sneak off and find some 7 to make it through the week which was embarrassing. Because of this experience, ive just been taking 7oh the past few days no psuedo and feel surprisingly fine despite the decrease in dosage and absence of pseudo.

Tomorrow, i will begin switching over to sub to take over the course of the next like two weeks. Have some clonodine, some valium, some vyvanse (surprisingly find this helps me during the day) and a lot of pot to make it through the weekend. Any tips would be appreciated. Should i induce by taking a big dose of sub at once when im feeling sick? Or should i just take a 1mg at a time until i start to feel better?

Sorry for being so scattered quite worried lol

 

[DieTrying]

So as the title suggests I had a question about 7oh and suboxone. My question is why doesn't suboxone block 7oh? Just to be clear I'm not a suboxone maintenance patient but I have bounced between the two a fair bit of times at this point and even with larger doses of subs over the course of say a week maybe two I've noticed that suboxone doesn't really block the 7oh at all and I'm just curious as to why? Perhaps bevause they're both partial agonist or maybe something else. I get all the full effects of the 7oh meanwhile at the same dose of subs over that time frame I could do 150mg of real roxycontin and not feel fuck all aside from a slight and I mean slight shift in vision IE things seem slightly brighter but duller at the same time, has anybody else noticed this with these two substances. P. S. For reference the 7oh I'm taking is roughly 97% pure 7oh powder so I don't think the argument of oh it's just the other alkaloids from kratom being left in the mix is the answer here. Cheers and open to any feed back or first hand experiences

can i ask how much subs u take? i have couple grams of 70h from 80-92% and have been on sbz since december im on about 2-3 mg aday which after bioaccumilation of 10 days is roughly 5mg or so in the body-so half or more receptor coverage-did u notice any rebound wd bp/hr spikes etc i cant afford to risk that at my age im ove r55 and get intercarnialpressure already from bupe..but have some legit pain issues and would like to try and work onmy car but def dont want receptor wars going on with 7/bupe

 

[helpingout]

I think for the people having trouble inducing sub from 7oh what we need to do to help you is identify the half life of 7 on the receptor. I think the problem you’re all having is that the 7 stays on the receptor for a long time and because it’s binding affinity is higher than buprenorphine the bupe can’t knock the 7 off the receptor. I hypothesize that if you wait until you are in full blown withdrawal. Something like 2-3 days of full blown withdrawal then the sub will work as a partial agonist. But as long as there’s 7 or pseudo on the receptor nothing but fent is going to displace it. Even then I’d bet fent doesn’t displace it but rather is so powerful that whatever does get through the blockade produces an effect on what little receptor space is available and alleviates the sick. I truly believe that you need to stay sick longer before subs will have an effect. Good luck everyone.

TLDR: Look into the half life of 7 and figure out a time window for when to induce sub that accommodates two or three days of vacancy on the receptors.