7 hydroxy mitragynine

[haribo1]

Although only a minor constituant of Kratom, it's this alkaloid that packs most (if not all) the opioid punch:

Now, the traditional method to add that -OH was using lead tetracetate. I understand that polyvalent iodine compounds are now the method of choice (not as toxic + higher yield). 2 questions:

1-How potent is the 7-hydroxymitragynine compared with morphine?
2-Can some of that molecule be lost while retaining activity. The morphine rules states
a)Aromatic system
b)Quaternary carbon
c)two carbon chain
d)Tertiary amine

 

[egor]

It will be interesting to see what other analogs come from this...

 

[Ham-milton]

I don't think so. I can't find the right paper, but I had a copy of one somewhere from some Japanese grad student address the SARs, and basically it looked like 7-hydroxy was the most potent derivative.

It needed the methoxy group where it is to have any opiate activity, and the 7 hydroxy to be very good. They didn't find anything to make it more potent than the 7-hydroxy-mitragynine, though.

 

[haribo1]

The 3 rings to the left are required, but the 4th ring with those attachment, are they needed? You get the morphine rule with just those 3 so what the rest of it does, I don't know.

 

[MattPsy]

I thought the reason that this 7-HO-mitragynine was so nice feeling was it's pharmacological actions other than opioid receptor agonism. if you start stripping off others parts of the structure to simply satisfy the morphine rule, you will surely lose the other [nice] parts of it's action.

 

[Ham-milton]

And I thought that 7-ho-mit was purely opiodergic, and that the unsubbed parent was only interesting because of it's messy-ness.

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

there is not much else going on with 7OHMIT other than the opioidergic component excepting the stimulant activity that is likely of similar nature to Yohimbine which is something most could take or leave in their opioids and if desired to have said effect with such one can always take any simple and easily available agent that replicates said effect and can tweak in that manner as desired (if they do not mind the bit of polypharmacy)

 

[MattPsy]

Oh, okay, I thought it arose out of the same active . (didn't seem out of the question to me, there are opioids that are DA & NE reuptake inhibitors too)
I personally quite like the stimulating effect of kratom. It's mild but it goes quite nicely with the opioid effect.

 

[Ham-milton]

I always thought Kratom felt like exactly like Strattera or Effexor.

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

^ well that does not say much for the opioidergic nature shining through...again though this also comes back to my thread regarding some opioids and their stimulating component such as is seen with certain doses of Oxycodone and others

 

[morphiquet]

i rather call 7-hydroxymitragynine mitragynol, that's shorter and as well scientifically correct as the former.
regarding the following facts: 1% alkaloid content in dried kratom leaves, of which 60% are mitragynine and 2% are mitragynol and the dosage of the leaves compared to other opioids;
you will come to the conclusion that mitragynol should bear a potency of about 13x that of oral morphine.

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

Mitragynol is a good name, but doubt it will take not coming from a journal and with the current naming so well established

hence i use 7OHMIT to abbreviate

i believe i have seen oral 7OHMIT rated higher than 13x oral M, but that is likely in the ballpark

 

[CloudyHazeD]

Dose anyone have any firsthand exerience with these substances in pure form?

SAR is one thing.....I'd like to read some 'trip reports' though

 

[egor]

^^there is 1 on erowid, and there are a few others out there...

 

[Smyth]

Fascinating stuff.

 

[fastandbulbous]

The stimulating effects are possibly mediated in the same way as yohimbine (alpha-2 antagonism. The alpha-2 receptor is an autoreceptoe for noradrenaline ie it acts as a form of negative feedback, so any antagonist is like cutting the brake lines on noradrenergic activity), the big difference being that yohimbine doesn't have the anxiolytic opioid effect, making anxiety a much more pronounced component of it's stimulant effects (being a mild psychedelic probably makes the anxiety even worse!)

 

[otb01]

On the topic of 7-HO-M potency vs. Morphine: A lot of the recreational preps of just pure 7-HO-M in solution contain 4 mg. I don't know how it works because I have yet to try Kratom but that can help with the potency questions.

 

[Ham-milton]

(being a mild psychedelic probably makes the anxiety even worse!)

I've never tried Yohimbine. How is it 'mildly psychedelic'? Just indole-y feeling?

might give it a try if it were for the anxiogenesis...

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ Most people I've talked to, who've had it agree with me that it has a feeling a bit like a low dose of mushrooms mixed with a bit of coke (but then topped off with some nasty anxiety for some). Mrs f&b & me tried some a long time ago to investigate its aphrodisiac effect; unfortunately when one of us was good to go, the other was all sweaty & anxious 8) . The dreams that night seemed a lot like the description of animal spirit dreams that harmala alkaloid containing plants can induce.

I'd possibly consider trying it again, only after a pre-dosing with a benzo to counteract the potential anxiety, but my other half wouldn't as after that night, she spent most of the next day at work looking at starburst lens type psychedelic hued rainbows that would start forming as soon as she stopped concentrating (and taking an aphrodisiac on your own seems a really sad thing to do! ).

Worth doing once, as it does seem to be a unique sort of psychedelic experience (only mild), but I'd say pre-dose with 5-10mg of diazepam or equivalent unless you actually enjoy being anxious

 

[LuxEtVeritas]

in the countless people i know who have used Yohimbine i never heard of one remarking at all of a psychedlic nature of any fashion

no doubt though to those sensitive the anxiogenic aspect can be a real trip, but of course not in a agood way at all