6-APB has turned on me, worried about cumulative cardiotoxicity.

[Asante]

I used to take 6-APB once every month or two months or so for the past 2 years. It always used to go brilliantly.

I'd get a scary comeup of strong stimulation, then at about 1:20 into it suddenly the overstimulation turned into euphoria and I'd be rolling face for the next 7 hours or so.

All that has completely changed.

If I now take 6-APB the overstimulation culminates in very rapid heartbeat, like 150 bpm, then after 4 hours it calms leaving me rattled.

I thought it was my supplier, so I switched suppliers but to no avail.

6-APB has turned on me. I cant take the stuff anymore, my heart beats out of control.

If I take a good dose of Buphedrone I get stimmed up like nobodies business but my heart is fine. Its not a matter of noradrenalin or dopamine.

I dont tolerate 6-APB anymore, and I assume its what it does in terms of serotonin release on my heart.

Can anyone relate? Does anyone else have this too?

I loved this drug to bits but now my heart says "no more". Could it be I accumulated cardiotoxictity from taking it over the months? Is this a freakish allergy?

Please help me understand this, I worry something is majorly wrong with either the drug, or me.

 

[Solipsis]

This is a lot of guesswork of course, but I would be thinking more along the lines of adrenergic sensitization. Maybe it's not purely an adrenaline issue, but whatever it is I don't think it is cardiotoxicity that would make you overstimulated, cardiotoxicity IMO would probably cause other symptoms like arrhythmia, angina, really fucked up pressure-y weird or scary feelings in your chest, things like that.

Overstimulation with tachycardia and stuff like that is definitely not nice, but things like this can happen with a lot of stimulants I think - if you overdo it. Even if not adrenergic, I imagine something like chronic tolerance developing for certain pharmacological action but not other, skewing the effects to become increasingly worrisome and decreasingly enjoyable. I am not sure why but apparently your sympathetic nervous system reacts differently.

It is clear that the solution is to stop taking the drug, it is a sign that you need to take it easy.

Worrying about your health is IMO an overreaction, if you get the type of symptoms I mentioned especially while sober - then see a doctor. If you react badly to a drug after taking it too far, not so much.

 

[Si Dread]

Lord, that sounds problematic! Sorry to hear this man

I'm afraid that because use of 6-apb is relatively new & that extended periods such as yours are only just coming to light now that the drug has been around for some years it's really difficult to tell if you are suffering some kind of unique, idiosyncratic reaction to exposure over 2 years, some sort of harm related to regular use of 6-apb or even if your symptoms are entirely psychological.

There are clever people here, people who can look at a compounds molecular structure & make an educated guess at the effects & ultimately side-effects of a particular drug, & they will probably be able to give better prognosis than I but my advice would be, drop all apb's until their effects profile has been thoroughly established & in the meantime, be careful using any stimulants in case you have some new or newly appeared heart condition. If you have any day-to-day worrys about the old ticker, speak to a doctor & be honest about the drugs or he/she won't be able to help you.

After reading what you've said above & the tail end of this article here (about David Nutt but sadly by the Daily Mail & full of errors), I was wondering if perhaps this might begin a Big & Dandy on problems with Benzo-Furan addiction or other use-related harm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...erous-illegal-drugs-ecstasy-study-claims.html

I imagine something like chronic tolerance developing for certain pharmacological action but not other, skewing the effects to become increasingly worrisome and decreasingly enjoyable. I am not sure why but apparently your sympathetic nervous system reacts differently.

It is clear that the solution is to stop taking the drug, it is a sign that you need to take it easy.

Something I meant to touch on but has now been dealt with more eloquently than would have been had I tried. Your description above Solipsis, illustrates exactly the problems with heavier use of MDMA, that the loved-up effect diminishes & a gritty, more stimulated amphetamine effect replaces it. I guess due to molecular similarity to MDMA, 6-apb may have the same high dose or extended dosing issues except they could be magnified.

 

[Asante]

Thank you both for your empathic and educated responses.

About quitting 6-APB, heh I love that molecule to bits, but not to death. Theres no way I'm gonna take it again for a very long time and if I do I'm going to re-assay it carefully like its a new thing. I'm gonna steer clear of MDMA and strong stims too from now on. I dont ever want to experience this again, no high is worth risking a trip to the morgue.

Adrenergic sensitization, is that a reversible thing?

 

[Si Dread]

If it's tolerance related, cessation will almost definitely solve the problem. If, as you understandably fear, 6-apb has caused some permanent issue, it is less likely to improve with time. Your worst fear is the least likely outcome, by the way I reckon you'll be fine after some time off & a bit of re-evaluation, so just play it cool, remain within the cold chill & relax for awhile

 

[Jesusgreen]

If it's tolerance related, cessation will almost definitely solve the problem. If, as you understandably fear, 6-apb has caused some permanent issue, it is less likely to improve with time. Your worst fear is the least likely outcome, by the way I reckon you'll be fine after some time off & a bit of re-evaluation, so just play it cool, remain within the cold chill & relax for awhile

^ To add to that, I'd try and take a break from all stimulants if possible for a while. Even if you're spacing out your use of each particular substance long enough, if you're using other stimulants with any sort of regularity this might be part of the problem.

Another angle to consider, while most of the 6-APB I've had has been of very high quality, I noticed with the most recent batch I had that was more of a white colour it was even more potent than usual and with my normal dose I found it a bit too strong. Is it maybe possible you too are now receiving stronger batches? Maybe you should try lowering your dose - I mean, that's generally the first port of call anyway if you're getting over-stimulated etc.

 

[electrodevo]

Are you getting your 6-APB reagent tested, I wonder? There's been so many cathinones and garden variety stims being sold as 6-APB that I wouldn't trust the compound without testing it, even if I switched suppliers.

6-APB is a known strong 5-HT2B agonist, which definitely means you shouldn't do it that often due to cardiotoxic issues (among many other things). However cardiotoxicity would probably manifest itself more in strong hypertension and heart valve abnormalities (see: fenfluramine issues).

 

[Ismene]

How old is this "6-apb" you're getting? No-one in the UK has been able to get genuine stuff for months now. I'm guessing Holland is the same - you're probably getting some fake stim being passed off as "6apb".

 

[DickTate]

^ I doubt that since the the most reputable UK-Vendor still has 6-APB in stock.
But I never tried it myself, so I can't say much else.

OP: We need more information. What kind of doses did you take (solo or mixed with other drugs), do you take any medications? And so on.

But Since St Ingwe had very negative consequences after abusing 5-MAPB I would not rule it out either.
Take care

 

[toastmann]

Could it be because 6-APB is more selective for 5-HT2b (Which IE causes thickening of the heart valve)?

 

[Si Dread]

But Since St Ingwe had very negative consequences after abusing 5-MAPB I would not rule it out either.
Take care

SAINT Ingwe? Am I getting a bit evangelical about 5-mapb, a bit holier than thou? Or was that a simple typo? Damned funny either way!

Still, I'll try to lighten up a bit

 

[Ismene]

^ I doubt that since the the most reputable UK-Vendor still has 6-APB in stock.
But I never tried it myself, so I can't say much else.

I just bought some 6apb from a reputable UK dealer and it wasnt 6apb. Several other reputable dealers say there hasn't been 6apb for months now.

 

[Reverend Random]

Fair points being made here. Asante, since you're Dutch, why not take some of your alleged 6-APB to a testservice? See http://www.drugs-test.nl/ for locations. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually weren't 6-APB but something else entirely.