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5g 7% mitragynine/alkaloid blend - First time - Ignorance pays few dividends

SpellmanT7

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
1,314
Location
at home :(
When reading unpleasant/negative trip reports, it never fails to amaze me how:

A) The Bluelight forums and/or search engine + erowid, could almost certainly have provided enough information to prevent/limit the degree to which a user mistakenly set off on a journey into probable unpleasantness.

B) How set and setting are two words that so many people seem to think are applicable to preparing a table for guests.

C) The concept of starting with small doses is all too often ignored.


THAT SAID...


Let's look at an example where A and C were ignored, sadly by myself.


I'd obtained 5g of kratom powder, or to be exact '7% Mitragynine & Signature Alkaloid Blend'. As a total and utter opioid virgin (I don't count a small dose of codeine), the best strategy would be to gauge the effects of a gram over the course of an evening and base my next experience on that.

The best strategy that is.

(any times are approximated except the initial consumption and sphygmo readings)

19:36 - Mix 1 gram of powder into a glass of fruit juice. Mmm, not that unpleasant - a bit chalky tasting but I can handle this ok.

20:00 - I could certainly feel the stimulating effect and grabbed my digital sphygomamometer - quick check...BP was fine and my pulse was 99. A little faster than I'd have liked, consider I'm just sat on an armchair. Either way, it didn't worry me, and, deciding that this was the 'first stage of kratom' where it acted as a stimulant I decided to add another 2 grams to start activating those mu opioid receptors.

(apologies for any false/inaccurate statements - I just want to show my thought process at the time)

Yes, if I took more kratom then I'd get to the kratom as an opioid stage and leave the level of stimulation where it was. Hmmm.

20:02 - Mixed up a couple of grams of kratom - great, this'll put me on the path to an opioid high. Again, no trouble drinking the chalky, lumpy mixture. 'This is going to be where the fun begins', I told myself.

Over the next half an hour, I sat in wait for the gentle high that was on it's way...er, it was on it's way right? All I could feel was my heartbeat getting more and more rapid - this isn't what happens is it? Where's my opioid bliss? The stimulation does fade doesn't it??? What if it? Oh shit, what If the (now) far more obvious happens:*

As the opioid effects present themselves, the stimulatory effects continue to increase

*(I should mention, the thought above failed to occur to me at the time. I was sold on the original idea that the stimulation just f a d e d away like a feather on the wind).


I told myself to calm down. A pulse of 99 was hardly anything to be concerned about. The opioids would kick in and I'd see my pulse come down to a far more reasonable level.

Hey - why not just take another sphygmo reading?

Oh.

20:26 - BP was a little high but this time my pulse was...139? That's too high! Why aren't the opioids kicking in? All I'm doing is sitting in a chair for christ's sake. Oh WAIT! The opioids haven't kicked in yet!

I tried a smile but it was definitely forced. Hmm...two options - more (dumb) or no more (sensible).

And the winner is....MORE (of course, when the title says 5g kratom powder, the suspense is somewhat ruined). The final two grams were dumped into more fruit juice and gulped down with considerably more hesitation than the previous two drinks.


21:15 - Things did improve. I finally (though let's be honest - an hour in drug terms doesn't necessarily merit a 'finally') started to feel the opioids kicking in.

At this point, I was glad that I'd dragged a mattress downstairs as all I wanted to do was lie down and chill. The stimulant effects weren't about to disappear (the sphygmo was banished though) but now were accompanied by an occasionally blissful feeling of serenity.

Over the next few hours, I was pretty much superglued to that mattress. I'd had the foresight to stick a seinfeld dvd in the player and had now chosen to watch - or at least attempt to watch it. The more I relaxed, the less bothered I was that my heart was still auditioning for the Rio Carnival and my eyes had taken on a heavy 'hard to concentrate' mode of operation.

I found myself almost drifting off to sleep, for just 15-30 seconds. I would sometimes have mini dreams about bizarre scenarios - one of which was a classroom in which several dozen grown men insisted on running around like crazed men. I wish I could remember the others.

I smoked a few cigarettes whilst I was in this state - bad move. The lit end of one fell down my shirt and all I did was make a half-hearted attempt to pat it out. I'd pay for that later.

For me, kratom was just about worth dabbling with. There was a state of genuine bliss for the majority of the 9-11PM period and by midnight I felt somewhat refreshed. I'm not sure whether my short dalliances with sleep are anything like nodding but they sure were fun.

As for the cigarette - three nasty burns when I checked my chest the following day. Wow - I didn't feel any pain whatsoever.
 
You didn't use kratom, you used (according to you) a 7% mitragynine/signature alkaloid blend. If that means that each gram contains 7% alkaloids by weight, well, that's a lot!

Also, as I reiterate every time it comes up, buying prepared kratom extracts, resins, etc is a very bad idea. I have yet to encounter one that was anywhere near as fulfilling as the standard leaves, and they're all very much more expensive. It seems to me that some of the lesser alkaloids which help the experience are not standardized or are simply missing in the commercial extracts. Hell, we really know almost nothing about how kratom works. In fact, we're not even absolutely sure which is the most active alkaloid! It's my opinion that we just don't know enough to make an efficient extract at this point. The extracts I've used have been primarily speedy and quite unfulfilling.

The regular leaves are much cheaper, and as an opiate virgin, 5 grams will probably be good for you to start with. As a person who has used loads of kratom, I have a pretty large tolerance to it, and 10 grams is about the limit I can handle without feeling dizzy. When I started, 5 grams was good, and 6-7 was great, and any more was too much. I promise that the regular leaves will be the best for you to use. You can't wrong with the natural plant, as that way all the alkaloids are present for sure!

Great report, anyway. I like your writing style and detail.
 
Thanks again Xorkoth. I certainly did ignore A) and C), even in the title of my report!

Could you change the title to '5g 7% mitragynine/alkaloid blend'?


I'm glad to hear that kratom leaves are more likely to provide the sort of experience I was really looking for. I bought the powder on a whim - I was ordering some less unusual products from a supplier and this particular product was confusingly labelled 'Kratom Powder' (or similar). I did have a quick search of BL and the 'net for kratom extracts but the general consensus seemed to be that they were pretty poor, so stopped reading before I got too disappointed at having shelled out my cash. Next time will be leaves, leaves leaves!

The process of making kratom tea always sounds like a ceremonial preparation to me - far more interesting than gulping down several grams of chalky powder.
 
It is more interesting! And it gives you a good 30-45 minutes of anticipation as well.

Just beware the taste... on the surface it isn't that bad, but there's something thick and repulsive about the tea.
 
I've recently been investigating an ethanol tincture blend of 2mg 7-hydroxy-mitragynine, 5mg 7-acetoxy-mitragynine, & 10mg mitragynine hcl per ml. It is very, very strong(analgesic qualities are on par with morphine) but different from regular kratom leaves in that it is quite a bit more stimulating - almost alarming until you get used to it. So yeah, the pure analogs are pretty much a different beast altogether mang.
 
^ Yeah, I was never really a fan of the tea taste myself. I normally just put 5-8 grams in a tea bag and make a couple cups of tea. I find honey does wonders, but the first cup is usually pretty nasty with anything over 5 grams. Its nowhere near as bad as ayahuasca (which tastes like rum mixed with an ashtray), but still not pleasant.

I remember trying some extract in capsules and it didn't really do too much. The raw leaves are definitely the most economical way to go in my (limited) experience. You can also try smoking the leaves, but it doesn't really do too much and is a bit harsh. Nice report
 
I used to prepare kratom leaves the traditional way (boiling crushed (not ground) leaves gently in water for 20 minutes, strain, boil new water again, combine, cool, drink), and that way was unfathomably disgusting. It gave me a serious aversion to the taste of kratom. The cooled liquid turned thick and syrupy, the color turned to that of heavily-creamed coffee, and the taste was grotesquely bitter. The effect of this was weaker somewhat by weight than my current method, but the effect was often "cleaner"-feeling. I was more prone to nausea with that method, but less prone to dizziness. With this method I never consumed the leaves directly.

My usual method now is to just finely grind the leaves (without much heat) and pour boiling water over them, stir occasionally, and when it's cool enough to drink (or after 20-30 minutes I may put ice in), I just swirl the leaf particles around and drink it all, leaves included. This method is in some ways preferable to the traditional method I described above, especially because the dose required is reduced, and the nausea usually doesn't strike me, but it seems to make the "kratom dizziness" hit more quickly after passing your optimal dose.

I also have occasionally chewed on the leaf powder and taken it sublingually. This is about the same as my usual method but perhaps more nausea-and-dizziness-inducing.

Those are the only three ways I ever use kratom after some experimentation with other ways. I won't ever use an extract again.

Boognish said:
I've recently been investigating an ethanol tincture blend of 2mg 7-hydroxy-mitragynine, 5mg 7-acetoxy-mitragynine, & 10mg mitragynine hcl per ml

I've only had extracts that were standardized for mitragyninel, and once both 7-hydroxy-M and M. Neither worked too well, but they were definitely primarily stimulating. I enjoy the stimulation but the opiate buzz is definitely also an important part of kratom. I've never tried or seen an extract with 7-AcO-M, so that's quite interesting that it was strong for you. I've long hypothesized that the extracts are simply not including all of the alkaloids. Oftentimes people seem to totally forget that plant drugs often contain many alkaloids, all of which combine together to create a total effect.
 
I always prefered the resin which I'm sure was no more than what you end up with if you boil the leaves down to almost hardness. The resin therefore was just an easier process. I would always heat it up in water til it all dissolved, let it cool and mix with milk, icecream and some flavouring (cinamon was a good one) then suck it up with a straw. Sometimes this worked so well I grew to looking forward to the taste - which I started to atribute to cinamon. When it's hot it seems to feel very gritty, not sure what happens there.

I've never experienced the stimulating effects that people speak of, it does make me just as happy to move around as lay around (unlike opiates where I just want to lay) but I've never felt full of energy or anything.

It's still my favourite recreational drug, I just worry about upsetting my weak stomach these days.
 
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