5-HTP Pre-Loading for Psychedelics?

[RhythmSpring]

I've preloaded before for MDMA, and it definitely makes a difference. I also take 5-htp on and off outside the context of drug use and it has a significant, positive impact on my mood, sleep, clarity of mind, energy, etc.

Is there any reason to believe that taking 5-htp for several days before a mushroom trip wouldn't make it better/stronger?

I ask because I just recently started taking it again, after a 1.5 year break. I started right after a mescaline trip and it seemed to bring back the effects of the trip subtly. And then, today, I took a subthreshold dose of mushrooms, and it's having a much stronger, more positive effect than I anticipated.

More 5-htp=more serotonin=more 5-ht2 activation by tryptamines and phenethylamines?

Feel free to move this over to ADD if that's more appropriate.

 

[sekio]

5ht2 agonist psyhcedelics (esp. psilocin) don't use serotonin release to produce their effects (they generally don't elevate postsynaptic serotonin concentrations like MDMA does), instead producing their activity by "mimicing" serotonin at receptors. so preloading with 5htp will be placebo at best.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Are you trying to tell me that there's no connection between serotonin levels in the brain and psychedelic activity?

 

[sekio]

Essentially, yes, or otherwise SSRI antidepressants would be psychedelics.

Most recreational serotonin releasers are actually more along the lines of empathogen/stimulants than psychedelics (e.g. MDMA, cathinones). There are a few notable compounds that are *both* serotonin releasers *and* serotonin 2a agonists, these include e.g. AMT, 5-MeO-DiPT, MDA and the APBs, but they are "odd men out" as it were.

LSD does increase the concentration of serotonin in the rat brain, but not by a very large margin when compared to drugs like MDMA. It certainly does not induce a state of monoamine depletion in the same way the MDxx drugs do.

There are anecdotes that "preloading" with 5htp will increase the intensity of hallucinogens, but personally, I think it's easily attributable to an active placebo. Especially when it comes to psychedelic drugs; some people are very easily suggestible and if you tell then they're taking a "super trip enhancer" you can expect them to go nuts.

 

[Paulo_di_canio]

^^^ great post

 

[Achten]

Essentially, yes, or otherwise SSRI antidepressants would be psychedelics.

Most recreational serotonin releasers are actually more along the lines of empathogen/stimulants than psychedelics (e.g. MDMA, cathinones). There are a few notable compounds that are *both* serotonin releasers *and* serotonin 2a agonists, these include e.g. AMT, 5-MeO-DiPT, MDA and the APBs, but they are "odd men out" as it were.

Do you have a source for that ? Or some more elaborate links ?

Not that I don't believe you, but I'm extremely interested. I thought it only worked with re-uptake .

 

[sekio]

Whoops - 5-meo-dipt is just a really strong reuptake inhibitor, not a releaser. Regardless it elevates postsynaptic serotonin concentrations quite well...

 

[Bagseed]

^interesting. is it like that with 5-meo-mipt too?

 

[sekio]

It'd be reasonable to assume so.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

5ht2 agonist psyhcedelics (esp. psilocin) don't use serotonin release to produce their effects (they generally don't elevate postsynaptic serotonin concentrations like MDMA does), instead producing their activity by "mimicing" serotonin at receptors. so preloading with 5htp will be placebo at best.

so you are obviously also sceptical regarding the activity of 5-HTP? because I am a bit confused about this question now; I always thought from my own experience that taking 5-HTP is similar to taking vitamin pills: one feels good for a moment, because one is proud about having done something for one's health, and then carries on as normal. but then again, obviously 5-HTP has at least for some people a very real action as antidepressant, and also seems to pose a real risk for serotonin syndrome when combined with other serotoninergic compounds; do you perhaps have some ideas about this large individual differences, and about how high the risk of serotonin syndrome really is?

 

[RhythmSpring]

The risk isn't in combining 5-HTP with serotonergic compounds (like the classical psychedelics), it's more with any MAOI, alcohol, and, yeah, here's the list from the List of Dangerous amp Potentially Unsafe Combinations Thread

5-HTP:

X aMT (alpha-Methyltryptamine)
X 2C-T-7
X Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca
X Other MAOIs (e.g. Phenelzine, Selegiline)
X All SSRIs/SNRIs (e.g. Sertraline, Seroxat)
X MDxx (e.g. MDMA, MDA, MDEA)
X Other serotonin releasers (e.g. 6-APB, 5-APB, 5-API, 5-IAI, MDAI)

...wait, alcohol isn't up there? Hmmm...

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

The risk isn't in combining 5-HTP with serotonergic compounds (like the classical psychedelics), it's more with any MAOI, alcohol, and, yeah, here's the list from the List of Dangerous amp Potentially Unsafe Combinations Thread

5-HTP:

X aMT (alpha-Methyltryptamine)
X 2C-T-7
X Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca
X Other MAOIs (e.g. Phenelzine, Selegiline)
X All SSRIs/SNRIs (e.g. Sertraline, Seroxat)
X MDxx (e.g. MDMA, MDA, MDEA)
X Other serotonin releasers (e.g. 6-APB, 5-APB, 5-API, 5-IAI, MDAI)

...wait, alcohol isn't up there? Hmmm...

but you said, you have used 5-HTP for preloading before MDMA before and were satisfied with the increase in the potency of the MDMA you could archieve that way? so were you not afraid of a serotonin syndrome? or did you take specific precautions in order to avoid that risk?

 

[RhythmSpring]

but you said, you have used 5-HTP for preloading before MDMA before and were satisfied with the increase in the potency of the MDMA you could archieve that way? so were you not afraid of a serotonin syndrome? or did you take specific precautions in order to avoid that risk?

That is correct. I've used 5-HTP successfully, without side effects, to augment the MDMA experience, as well as the afterglow. I did not take any other specific precautions, other than to make sure that I got ample sleep.

 

[PurplePorpoise]

...wait, alcohol isn't up there? Hmmm...

It is, under:
Potentially/Likely Dangerous Combinations
Alcohol (e.g. Beer, Wine, Vodka):

X Dissociatives (e.g. Ketamine, DXM, PCP, Methoxetamine)
X 5-HTP

From personal experience, alcohol and 5-HTP is a very fun mixture, but not one to do if you intend to do anything but fall asleep, as it can be very debilitating.

 

[Vediog]

Interesting. I take 5-htp regularly and have had no issues with drinking alcohol afterward. Or MDMA. However, I began taking 5-htp because I believe I don't produce enough serotonin on my own, leading to depression.