5-HT2C agonist and dual 5HT/DA RI/Releaser

[TheHappyChemical]

I'm wondering what are the potential results of such a combination as far as neurotoxicity go.

Would the suppressed dopamine release from 5-HT2C agonism, coupled with the serotonin reuptake inhibition, stopping dopamine from being uptaken by SERT reduce the risk? Would serotonin syndrome be a problem from so much action? I've read its mostly mediated by the 5-HT2B receptor site being overwhelmed.

Note the chemicals in question are 2c-b(which is thought to be a partial agonist/possible full antagonist of 5-HT2B as well) for the 5-HT2C agonist, and methylone and/or mephedrone for the Serotonin/DA reuptake inhibition and release.

 

[TheAzo]

So your question is combining 2C-X with an triple release agent. It's a very obvious combination to try. I know MDMA has been combined with 2C-X on innumerable occations, and it has a 4x higher HT release than methylone.

I don't know of any release/RI numbers for mephedrone, but i wouldn't want to introduce such a fiendy sideeffecty element into a trip...

 

[TheHappyChemical]

I'm not so worried about the fiendish element. I won't be having much of either the mephedrone/methylone on hand for exactly such a reason, assuming I even decide to go through with it, and I won't have much 2c-b on hand because of just plain availability.

Also, does anyone know if the other 2c-x family members have the suspected 5-HT2C agonism as the main mode of action like 2C-B? Isn't this rather odd among hallucinogens, with the 2A receptor having the higher efficacy?

 

[TheAzo]

Well, the last thing you want is to be coming down off of mephedrone while peaking on a psychedelic, i hear the comedown is hellish, and you don't want that to be amplified.

 

[TheHappyChemical]

Your concerns are unneccesary, as I have that part planned out, but still much appreciated.

Any more thoughts on neurotoxicity/serotonin syndrome from anyone would be a big help.

 

[TheHappyChemical]

Hate bumping a thread, but I can't find any more info to base a judgement on. Anyone got anything more concrete, please? Seems like it'd be safe enough in moderation(at least as safe as my original combo with methylone/mephedrone), but I'd really like to know how adding 2c-b in would affect the neurotoxicity.

 

[kken]

no one can know the true answer to that. lets say its safer not to combine any RC's since it could be dangerous

methylone & mephedrone combo will nicely fuck up your heart. even in moderation. oh yeah the 5-HT2B agonism which adds to the cardiovascular toxicity also adding vasoconstriction which methylone and mephedrone does as well


just dont do it please. and try to get off mephedrone

 

[TheHappyChemical]

no one can know the true answer to that. lets say its safer not to combine any RC's since it could be dangerous

methylone & mephedrone combo will nicely fuck up your heart. even in moderation. oh yeah the 5-HT2B agonism which adds to the cardiovascular toxicity also adding vasoconstriction which methylone and mephedrone does as well


just dont do it please. and try to get off mephedrone

Any drug can be dangerous. Remind yourself of why and what this forum is about.

I am already well aware of the other side effects and risks, hence I did not ask about them and put forward a very direct question.

While your concern is appreciated, the tone you end your post with is highly offensive, and assuming about my character, and I'd prefer you keep that preachy bullshit to yourself.

 

[kken]

simple question: why take 3 chems that ALL add to cardiovascular toxicity + neurotoxicity and probably change some gpcrs signaling too which would last quite a while

i assume nothing of your character and simply try to minimize the damage by telling the facts so you can decide whats the best course of action

 

[TheHappyChemical]

"Try to get off mephedrone" is a very assuming statement.

The 5-HT2B agonism is very low efficacy, and may possibly be antagonistic, then the 5-HT2C agonism should, as far as I can induce, inhibit dopamine release.

Then on top of this, I do not experience many periphereal effects of stimulatory modes of action.

I have already tested the mephedrone/methylone combination, and there was no unsafe raise in heart rate or blood pressure. I am going into this very well prepared, if I choose to do so.

Also, 2c-b isn't particularly neurotoxic as far as I know, and I'm well aware of the neurotoxic risks involved with mephedrone/methylone. I'm just wondering if it would add to the already present neurotoxicity risk, which you have so far provided no information to help in the case for or against.

 

[kken]

neurotoxicity is no issue here since the cardiovascular damage is tenfold (and its long term damage)

mephedrone and its metabolites induce significant vasoconstriction. methylone and its metabolites induce lesser but still significant vasoconstriction.

they are both putting a significant extra strain on the heart. this combination increases the risks of anxiety, paranoia, panic, risks of convulsions and cardiac problems. almost certainly a risky combination even in moderate use. lets take a look at the size of your heart and look at the valves in few months

why not use safer combo

 

[TheHappyChemical]

I have already stated I am aware of the other risks involved. Do not make me repeat myself. My motivation and choice to take those risks is none of your concern.

Why not take a safer combo? Why not move along if you have nothing of value to add on topic?

 

[kken]

lets discard the heart damage you are willing to endure then

i woudnt like the 5HT2C induced excitatory purinergic receptor mediated neurotransmission to CVNs which can lead to augmented parasympathetic cardiac vagal activity and decreases heart rate. so first you get your super vasoconstriction and then your heart rate drops... what do you think might happen?

 

[TheHappyChemical]

Your blood pressure will lower, as that's exactly what your body's natural response is for such a situation? Baroreflex does just that to atempt to maintain homeostatis.

 

[ebola?]

Why not induce release of all 3 monoamines through a method involving proportionally little release of DA (eg, contrast the neurotoxicity of m1 vs. mdma)? Alternately, you could maximize the ratio of 5ht release to DA release, but you'd also need to keep total DA release moderate to low (this is based on contrasts between MDMA and methamphetamine, which suggest that the risk to damage via SERT taking up DA is greater when there's a dopamine flood and a small proportion of cells depleted of serotonin than where there's a serotonin flood coupled with a small to moderate release of DA).

Agonizing 5ht2c to moderate release of DA seems a bit silly, as 5ht2c agonism appears anxiogenic in its own right (perhaps via mechanisms beyond reducing dopaminergic activity).

ebola